2018 US Championships Sr. Ladies SP

[yoloaxel]

Frankly, I'm a little perplexed at the cries of 'Mirai was robbed', 'Karen was robbed', 'Ashley was robbed' - none of them skated a clean SP. None of them have components that particularly outshine the others.

Sure, Bradie was rewarded for her consistency, but she skated a nice, clean free... US fans should be happy that they might be sending to the OG someone with an actual shot. I like Mirai, but she's not a great interpreter and she always has some troubles with her jumps. I think Karen is a nice interpreter and has great SS but her jumps are consistently UR. I LOVE Ashley to bits, but she's had problems all season (and last season) and her SP wasn't clean. Sure, she should have gotten 1-2 points more in PCS, but she still would be behind Mirai and Bradie, and rightly so - unless you're Carolina Kostner (who I think is overscored in PCS, btw) and have impressive SS, you can't just rely on components.

Lastly, I hate to see people hating on Bradie for her 'boring, princess' image like they used to do to Gracie. I've seen a lot of that on Twitter, and I just think it's toxic. If it's the image she likes and feels comfortable in, good for her. As long as she skates well, I'm gonna be happy with it.

 

[MsLayback]

Can I be honest here? I've been pretty done with Ashley's BS the past year and a half, and I'm glad USFSA is too. Here is a skater that had one great 2016 worlds, then is unable to follow it up. Not just that, she continues to spout this underdog narrative at at every single hecking event (which at this point just sounds like an excuse for skating poorly) and declares she will win nationals, all while posting subpar results for all of last season (other than at 2016 SA) and this season. Ashley, just skate.
Send Karen. She's the only US skater I enjoy watching.

Thank u for saying what I was thinking too

 

[Anyasnake]

After reading everything out there, some post and posters surprised me.

So PCS does go with clean performance, but some skaters do have better skating skills (that actually shows) so they'll get better scoring if they aren't squeaky clean. Plus always remember PCS are relative to one another (to an extent).

Bradie had a clean program, on of her landings could have been better but it wasn't a "mistake" per say. She wasn't sloppy, it was good.

Mirai had a 2-footed/step-out on her 3A. Her transitions aren't the best, she does seems rigid when going for jumps. However, the SP was well skated overall, and her TES is right where it should be. This is an accurate score.

Karen has the best SS by far and is correctly 1st in PCS because it was overall a good performance and she doesn't lack of the rest components at all (musically, and in TR) compared to other.

Ashley is the typical case where people here think the more you show face and sass, the better the PCS should be. Er, no. Even Maddison Chock understood that (and her skating is better). It can get you a bit in PE and IN but the rest, especially TR is lacking. That being said, she didn't looked at her best tonight and it did reflect (correctly) on her PCS.

Moral of the story : PCS isn't about giving face. PCS on this event were quite accurate I think, which is actually surprising for a national event.

 

[TCAngel18]

Lol. You realized you put down a host of girls to make a point? The other girls did better than her because they are better. Do you want Bradie to get 62 for the SP so Ashley can go? Need a reality check?

Typical head in the sand. If she is not doing better than other girls, it MUST be USF is not supporting her. I never said she made the claims. Her delusional fans did.

Careful, your vitriol is showing.

How is recognizing that other skaters received support from USFSA, whilst Ashley did not, in any way, shape or form dragging the other skaters down? Methinks that you are trying to pull blood from a stone.

Again, you are assuming that the goal was to tear Bradie down to a 62 to prop Ashley up. Bradie deserved a score in the low 70’s. She skated solidly, with clean elements and nice flow. However, she doesn’t have that innate sense of musicality and connection yet.

 

[Anyasnake]

Lastly, I hate to see people hating on Bradie for her 'boring, princess' image like they used to do to Gracie. I've seen a lot of that on Twitter, and I just think it's toxic. If it's the image she likes and feels comfortable in, good for her. As long as she skates well, I'm gonna be happy with it.

Personnally, I'm never going to "hate on" someone because of an image (US is very lucky to have Bradie at that point - also I'm not 10 years old anymore ), but I'm one of those who is getting tired with the "princess" packaging. But it is different than with Gracie : Bradie never went to worlds or 4CC, while Gracie went to worlds the year before. I don't know if Bradie thought there was a shot for her to make the Olympic team before the GP series and now she fins herself 1st after the SP. I actually like her SP music but not her LP (too vanilla and cliche). It's just a timing question.

 

[TCAngel18]

After reading everything out there, some post and posters surprised me.

So PCS does go with clean performance, but some skaters do have better skating skills (that actually shows) so they'll get better scoring if they aren't squeaky clean. Plus always remember PCS are relative to one another (to an extent).

Bradie had a clean program, on of her landings could have been better but it wasn't a "mistake" per say. She wasn't sloppy, it was good.

Mirai had a 2-footed/step-out on her 3A. Her transitions aren't the best, she does seems rigid when going for jumps. However, the SP was well skated overall, and her TES is right where it should be. This is an accurate score.

Karen has the best SS by far and is correctly 1st in PCS because it was overall a good performance and she doesn't lack of the rest components at all (musically, and in TR) compared to other.

Ashley is the typical case where people here think the more you show face and sass, the better the PCS should be. Er, no. Even Maddison Chock understood that (and her skating is better). It can get you a bit in PE and IN but the rest, especially TR is lacking. That being said, she didn't looked at her best tonight and it did reflect (correctly) on her PCS.

Moral of the story : PCS isn't about giving face. PCS on this event were quite accurate I think, which is actually surprising for a national event.

“Face and sass” have nothing to do with the arguments being presented. Her SS and TR, while be it a tad bit lower than I would have marked, are nothing to really qualm about. Those are her weaker categories. It is the other 3 PCS scores that were scored lower than they would have been scored internationally, which is the frustrating part.

Hip Hip Chin Chin is a program that requires OTT flair, so you need to show face and sass to make it believable.

 

[klutzy]

Frankly, I'm a little perplexed at the cries of 'Mirai was robbed', 'Karen was robbed', 'Ashley was robbed' - none of them skated a clean SP. None of them have components that particularly outshine the others.

Sure, Bradie was rewarded for her consistency, but she skated a nice, clean free... US fans should be happy that they might be sending to the OG someone with an actual shot. I like Mirai, but she's not a great interpreter and she always has some troubles with her jumps. I think Karen is a nice interpreter and has great SS but her jumps are consistently UR. I LOVE Ashley to bits, but she's had problems all season (and last season) and her SP wasn't clean. Sure, she should have gotten 1-2 points more in PCS, but she still would be behind Mirai and Bradie, and rightly so - unless you're Carolina Kostner (who I think is overscored in PCS, btw) and have impressive SS, you can't just rely on components.

Lastly, I hate to see people hating on Bradie for her 'boring, princess' image like they used to do to Gracie. I've seen a lot of that on Twitter, and I just think it's toxic. If it's the image she likes and feels comfortable in, good for her. As long as she skates well, I'm gonna be happy with it.

All this. I actually think the results were pretty fair in terms of placement. Bradie was rewarded for a well-skated technically difficult program with more challenging transitions than those of the other skaters. Mirai Nagasu was rewarded for taking a risk and almost delivering it cleanly. Karen Chen was up there for her PCS.

Ashley Wagner is a *wonderful* performer with a great connection to an audience--she's fun to watch, but this is a competition and skating is a sport as well as an art. Ashley's program is a bit stale and her technique isn't strong enough to compensate for that. She and several other skaters are still in the running for an Olympic spot if they can deliver on the FS.

As for Bradie--I love that this mostly ignored skater overcame injuries and figured out how to skate a program that's actually competitive internationally. Surely, there's a way to cheer on your own favorite without slamming her achievement. She skated clean. She's been skating clean. I'm thrilled to see a skater who's reliable who can also rotate seven triples without making me anxious.

 

[Anyasnake]

“Face and sass” have nothing to do with the arguments being presented. Her SS and TR, while be it a tad bit lower than I would have marked, are nothing to really qualm about. Those are her weaker categories. It is the other 3 PCS scores that were scored lower than they would have been scored internationally, which is the frustrating part.

Hip Hip Chin Chin is a program that requires OTT flair, so you need to show face and sass to make it believable.

But that's the thing, "Composition" quite goes with TR so when TR are a bit shaky, it reflects on CO, and "Performance" wasn't clearly the best.
For IN, she was ranked 1st by the majority of judes (the others put her a close 2nd).

 

[Ares]

Consider Alina get 76-78+ these days with so so SP performance, everyone is undermarked...

Full backloading + 3 most difficult triples (aside from axel) jammed in + LVL4s everywhere + Russianflation boost factor = big score.

 

[Skater Boy]

I am unsure who deserves to be first between Mirai and Bradie. But as per usual there was national generocity inflation here. Just like in Russia and Italy - it seems to be a world trend and undoubtedly in Canada.

Bradie did not seem as carefree or confident here as we have seen but seems to be the USFA fave right now. Ashley despite the major error sold the heck out of the program. She is a bit lucky to be in the final group; could have knocked out.

I was happy for Polina to do so well but she really isn't the same girl from the last Olympics coming back from injury. Karen's program is not my fave but we will have to wait to see the long program. Oh dear, if Mirai gets nervous I can see Bradie winning; Chen taking the silver and Mirai in third just over Ashley - but then the USFA has to decide Mirai v. Ashley - oh wouldn't that be deja vu.

 

[TCAngel18]

Oh no, just curious what do people see. Something like what you mentioned is super subjective and not measurable in anyway.

Except it is measured, by viewers and judges with every single performance that every skater has ever skated throughout history. Of course it’s subjective. PCS is inherently subjective. TES is quantitative. I would dare to say SS and TR are also more on the side of being objective.

The fact of the matter is that a message was sent to certain skaters via PCS from TPTB, whether it be higher than international expectation or lower. Ashley has been scored domestically lower in PCS in this performance, and multiple past performances, then the same skate would have received with an international panel. Conversely, other skaters past and present are being awarded higher PCS inflation than they would with an international panel, even taking into affect the consistency rise.

I have no real problems with the placements from tonight. Personally, I would have scored it Mirai, Bradie, Angela, Ashley, Karen, but that’s just me. It’s the relative scoring in the PCS categories that allow the most wiggle room that make me take pause.

 

[NoNameFace]

Frankly, I'm a little perplexed at the cries of 'Mirai was robbed', 'Karen was robbed', 'Ashley was robbed' - none of them skated a clean SP. None of them have components that particularly outshine the others.

Sure, Bradie was rewarded for her consistency, but she skated a nice, clean free... US fans should be happy that they might be sending to the OG someone with an actual shot. I like Mirai, but she's not a great interpreter and she always has some troubles with her jumps. I think Karen is a nice interpreter and has great SS but her jumps are consistently UR. I LOVE Ashley to bits, but she's had problems all season (and last season) and her SP wasn't clean. Sure, she should have gotten 1-2 points more in PCS, but she still would be behind Mirai and Bradie, and rightly so - unless you're Carolina Kostner (who I think is overscored in PCS, btw) and have impressive SS, you can't just rely on components.

Lastly, I hate to see people hating on Bradie for her 'boring, princess' image like they used to do to Gracie. I've seen a lot of that on Twitter, and I just think it's toxic. If it's the image she likes and feels comfortable in, good for her. As long as she skates well, I'm gonna be happy with it.

This so much - this season in particular people are really pushing their imaginary right to 'own' skaters in terms of their image created, impression made and put it inside of particular boxes full of personally-inflicted stigmas and assumptions. What is the problem of being a statuesque blonde, with dazzling smile and even more dazzling talent and consistency that carries her to the place she deserves to be - oh right, because she threatens others' favourites and shook up a lot Ladies game in US this season, people cannot contain their stuff and ruthlessly using 'Princess' argument, which is hilarious for me (but hey, if there's nothing else to pick on - aside of knowledgeable argument on her scores etc. which are perfectly fine to call on - let's pick on her appearance, how mature and convenient...).

yes, personally I do think that there could be a case made about Bradie's PCS in some categories, BUT to call her 'boring princess' from default is a nonsense - she actually is the one who brings so much excitement by her confident execution, enthusiasm and attack in performances, why not to appreciate it? She is not the most polished skater out there, the fastest, the most refined and well-rounded, but if countless credits and time are given for other skaters with much worse performances altogether, why not giving it to Bradie who is still relatively young, full of energy, with so much consistency? I'm actually very eager and excited to see how she'll develop in terms of presentation, interpretation and it's very unfair to box her up inside one image that conjured in people's minds just because it's convenient for them. Pity that they do not realize that there's a person on the other side of chopping board, not this figured out image...


And to add something about another thing posted already on Ashley being said to be 'taken much farther by USFSA than her talent should have taken her' - may I ask where is this 'carriage' now? Aside of the fact that this kind of statement is plainly disrespectful, this is really unfair thing to said, even if she's experiencing difficulties now. And even if we see that she was supported by Fed, there was a reason for it in form of having a talent - she may be not the best technician out there or the pattern for consistency, but she really shines as a performer and I would not cross her work altogether due to rocky season in such dismissive manner. And there goes Ashley's personality that does not suit everyone, people who would like to see more a demure, crystalline 'Princess' than a mature, unapologetic 'Lady' out there (saying that, 'Princess' image being criticized at the same time...lol).

 

[TCAngel18]

But that's the thing, "Composition" quite goes with TR so when TR are a bit shaky, it reflects on CO, and "Performance" wasn't clearly the best.
For IN, she was ranked 1st by the majority of judes (the others put her a close 2nd).

You would think that, but it seems that Composition gets tied more into the other two then the first two. Composition should only be slightly tied into transitions. Transitions are just parts, Composition deals with the whole.

Here is probably where we differ. Even with the shaky elements, I feel that performance wise, she didn’t let the overall program slip.

Yes, she was ranked 1st in IN, but it’s not just ordinal placement. The PCS score is relative to many different factors, including your skate, the skates of your competitors in this competition, and all skates from previous competitions.

 

[Anyasnake]

You would think that, but it seems that Composition gets tied more into the other two then the first two. Composition should only be slightly tied into transitions. Transitions are just parts, Composition deals with the whole.

I agree that Composition shouldn't be that tied (in general) with TR. What I'm saying is that the judges (in all discipline) marks these 2 quite close, that I'm wondering why it's not a single Component.

 

[yoloaxel]

This so much - this season in particular people are really pushing their imaginary right to 'own' skaters in terms of their image created, impression made and put it inside of particular boxes full of personally-inflicted stigmas and assumptions. What is the problem of being a statuesque blonde, with dazzling smile and even more dazzling talent and consistency that carries her to the place she deserves to be - oh right, because she threatens others' favourites and shook up a lot Ladies game in US this season, people cannot contain their stuff and ruthlessly using 'Princess' argument, which is hilarious for me (but hey, if there's nothing else to pick on - aside of knowledgeable argument on her scores etc. which are perfectly fine to call on - let's pick on her appearance, how mature and convenient...).

This is something I bumped into on Twitter, and I quote:

stop forcing the white blonde princess of figure skating narrative you so desperately want

To which I'm like ???????? Bradie was born white and blonde????? Is that a fault????? Is she creating a narrative by being born caucasian and white????

 

[TCAngel18]

This so much - this season in particular people are really pushing their imaginary right to 'own' skaters in terms of their image created, impression made and put it inside of particular boxes full of personally-inflicted stigmas and assumptions. What is the problem of being a statuesque blonde, with dazzling smile and even more dazzling talent and consistency that carries her to the place she deserves to be - oh right, because she threatens others' favourites and shook up a lot Ladies game in US this season, people cannot contain their stuff and ruthlessly using 'Princess' argument, which is hilarious for me (but hey, if there's nothing else to pick on - aside of knowledgeable argument on her scores etc. which are perfectly fine to call on - let's pick on her appearance, how mature and convenient...).

yes, personally I do think that there could be a case made about Bradie's PCS in some categories, BUT to call her 'boring princess' from default is a nonsense - she actually is the one who brings so much excitement by her confident execution, enthusiasm and attack in performances, why not to appreciate it? She is not the most polished skater out there, the fastest, the most refined and well-rounded, but if countless credits and time are given for other skaters with much worse performances altogether, why not giving it to Bradie who is still relatively young, full of energy, with so much consistency? I'm actually very eager and excited to see how she'll develop in terms of presentation, interpretation and it's very unfair to box her up inside one image that conjured in people's minds just because it's convenient for them. Pity that they do not realize that there's a person on the other side of chopping board, not this figured out image...


And to add something about another thing posted already on Ashley being said to be 'taken much farther by USFSA than her talent should have taken her' - may I ask where is this 'carriage' now? Aside of the fact that this kind of statement is plainly disrespectful, this is really unfair thing to said, even if she's experiencing difficulties now. And even if we see that she was supported by Fed, there was a reason for it in form of having a talent - she may be not the best technician out there or the pattern for consistency, but she really shines as a performer and I would not cross her work altogether due to rocky season in such dismissive manner. And there goes Ashley's personality that does not suit everyone, people who would like to see more a demure, crystalline 'Princess' than a mature, unapologetic 'Lady' out there (saying that, 'Princess' image being criticized at the same time...lol).

It’s not Bradie’s Fault at all that this moniker has been attached to her, but we have to recognize what is.

This is a narrative that USF has shown multiple times in the past that they believe they should use to cultivate a winner. The “pretty girls in pretty boxes” mentality. I’m probably screwing that up LOL.

The fact that gets in people’s craw that this is being cultivated, and not allowed to happen organically.

I would go so far as to say this mentality probably stems from a heteronormative, Patriarchically (not a word) conservative background, that wants their men strong and powerful, with dark hair and brooding Eyes, and their ladies demure and sweet, with blond hair and a bright smile.

When people, as skaters, challenge that status quo, it subconsciously causes dissension.

 

[readernick]

Lol. You realized you put down a host of girls to make a point? The other girls did better than her because they are better. Do you want Bradie to get 62 for the SP so Ashley can go? Need a reality check?

Typical head in the sand. If she is not doing better than other girls, it MUST be USF is not supporting her. I never said she made the claims. Her delusional fans did.

You obviously have issues with reading comprehension. So, I will try to express my point again.

I did not claim that the other girls were terrible or that I did not like them. I do. They had promise. Bradie has promise. The other girls did not live up to their promise. I hope Bradie does. I just feel that PCS and TES should reflect actual strengths and weaknesses. They did not in this competition. I don't think Ashley should be first or even third ( I would have Mirai, Bradie and then Angela Wang 1,2,3) but a more accurate PCS score would be Bradly at around 30 (higher than she gets in international competition) and Ashley at 33/34 (she gets higher than this in international competition). I don't think this is a USF conspiracy just rather bad judging/ over excitement at a new prospect.

You are claiming Ashley's results have only come from the support of the USF. I was merely pointing out by using facts (which all of your posts completely lack) that the USF has not actively supported her. She had moderate success due to her own efforts. She is also responsible for not addressing her nerves in competition. If she had, she would have a higher score today because her 3F+3T has been landed full rotated in practice all week but was not today. Her fault, not a USF conspiracy.

I don't think the USF has actively supported or not-supported Ashley. It has depended on the situation and the year. But, don't pretend that all her results come only from federation support there is no evidence of that. I was responding to your hatred/lack of objectively not trying to pretend Ashley is the best skater in the world. Ashley is not my favorite skater nor my least favorite but I see both her positive and negative qualities. Just stop being so petty and hate filled.

 

[TCAngel18]

This is something I bumped into on Twitter, and I quote:

To which I'm like ???????? Bradie was born white and blonde????? Is that a fault????? Is she creating a narrative by being born caucasian and white????

She is not creating the narrative. She is being propped up into the narrative that preexists that favors someone in her stead. It is not her fault at all. But she inherently benefits from it.

That, compounded in her great consistency which we only saw flashes from, from Gracie Gold, is giving people a savior complex. US Figure Skating REALLY wants their next Dorothy Hamill or Michelle Kwan, that they won’t allow her to be her own Bradie Tennell.

 

[NoNameFace]

This is something I bumped into on Twitter, and I quote:

To which I'm like ???????? Bradie was born white and blonde????? Is that a fault????? Is she creating a narrative by being born caucasian and white????

...

this is just wrong on so many levels, and the people are wondering why there are struggles in FS Ladies...She powers through her performances, shines with consistency and gives so much promise to be excited on and people are judging her based on their convenient narrative with foundation in appearances. Then, people wonder where's the respect and tolerance/acceptance for each other, really...

 

[TCAngel18]

You obviously have issues with reading comprehension. So, I will try to express my point again.

I did not claim that the other girls were terrible or that I did not like them. I do. They had promise. Bradie has promise. The other girls did not live up to their promise. I hope Bradie does. I just feel that PCS and TES should reflect actual strengths and weaknesses. They did not in this competition. I don't think Ashley should be first or even third ( I would have Mirai, Bradie and then Angela Wang 1,2,3) but a more accurate PCS score would be Bradly at around 30 (higher than she gets in international competition) and Ashley at 33/34 (she gets higher than this in international competition). I don't think this is a USF conspiracy just rather bad judging/ over excitement at a new prospect.

You are claiming Ashley's results have only come from the support of the USF. I was merely pointing out by using facts (which all of your posts completely lack) that the USF has not actively supported her. She had moderate success due to her own efforts. She is also responsible for not addressing her nerves in competition. If she had, she would have a higher score today because her 3F+3T has been landed full rotated in practice all week but was not today. Her fault, not a USF conspiracy.

I don't think the USF has actively supported or not-supported Ashley. It has depended on the situation and the year. But, don't pretend that all her results come only from federation support there is no evidence of that. I was responding to your hatred/lack of objectively not trying to pretend Ashley is the best skater in the world. Ashley is not my favorite skater nor my least favorite but I see both her positive and negative qualities. Just stop being so petty and hate filled.

I like you HAHA. I think that we are of like minds when it comes to recognizing facts Vs. Feelings.