I also think Mirais program needs some tweaking especially at the end where she does her step sequence. It just seems so slow and labored and the music doesn’t help. The audience definitely tried to push her through it by cheering her on. I think she should change the last piece of music to the ending of I’d Give My Life For You to give the program more drama and energy.
2018 US Championships Sr. Ladies FS
- Thread starter dorispulaski
- Start date
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2016
:sad4:
Then she should pick "On Silent Feet It Came" or the one where her cousin wants to kill (Spoiler Alert) her son "This is the Hour"?
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2006
When skaters pick Miss Saigon, they always pick the softer music, like “Sun and Moon”, or “Last Night of the World”. There is so much more impactful music that could create a cohesive program. The vocals would really add texture and drama.
You could literally create the program from the first act. Start with the intro leading up to the Axel. lead into Movie in my Mind, with the belt of Gigi on the Triple Sal. Then This is the hour, end 1st half of program w a spin. Come in with Sun and Moon, then end it with Id Give my life for you, especially where it just cuts out to Kim singing the last line, Land the Triple Loop right at that moment, then the final spin on the outro.
The program is still good now as is, but the drama would just make it SPECTACULAR.
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2006
Check my edit LOL
They have to let non-ISU judges on the national panel if they want to produce more international and ISU judges. To even begin qualification at the international level, a judge has to be panelled at nationals on a senior level event in their relevant discipline for three years. If they use only judges that have already gotten ISU certification, they'll never produce new ones.
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2017
Sorry if it's OT here, but I'm curious about the controversy in 2014 over the choice of Ashley to the Sochi Team, since it seems to be mentioned a lot regarding the selection for the Olympics Team this year. Can someone give me the gist on this and why it was so controversial? I assume that the criteria back then placed a lot more weight in Nationals placement than the criteria now, for it to produce so much outrage, since from what I read Ashley did have a very good season beforehand, while underperforming at Nationals.
It always kind of confuses me how much weight is placed on Nationals compared to season long performance or previous season results. Sure, in this particular case, none of the ladies really performed convincingly anywhere so Nationals results should, in my opinion, push the Team decision more, but back then surely Ashley had a better case regardless of her Nationals performance?
It always kind of confuses me how much weight is placed on Nationals compared to season long performance or previous season results. Sure, in this particular case, none of the ladies really performed convincingly anywhere so Nationals results should, in my opinion, push the Team decision more, but back then surely Ashley had a better case regardless of her Nationals performance?
I'll give you the basics.
Results at Nationals
1. Gracie
2. Polina
3. Mirai
4. Ashley
US has 3 spots for Olympics.
USFS decided to pick Gracie, Polina and Ashley, with their reasons that Ashley had a better 'body-of-work" compared to Mirai.
At that time it was unprecedented to not follow the best skaters at Nationals (except for medical reasons in Michelle Kwan's case)
So you can see how it would set up Mirai supporters vs Ashley supporters.
The smaller details, like racism and such, I think some of the American fans may be able to give you a better account. Most of us kind of shifted our focus to the Olympics main event at that time.
They did offer Mirai the consolation prize of 4CC but Mirai was not interested.
- Joined
- Oct 26, 2016
No, you more or less understand the issue.
Here's where the controversy arose. In order to garner ratings by creating high drama - NBC portrays the US Nationals as though it were the Olympic Trials rather than just a competition with significant, but not decisive, impact on the team selection. So many viewers didn't understand what the USF was doing because NBC misled the public about what US Nationals actually was.
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2012
I snoozed in the middle, but - call it an FS instinct - woke up just for the final fight. After watching, I was just too all over the place with my thoughts and waited until now. The final of the final was mixed feelings, being overwhelmed by emotions woven with being underwhelmed by performances of skaters (despite my best will for them do do well) and being confused by some weird scoring game at places (especially putting all results, comparing them with actual performances/execution of them in the end for all Ladies), played by judges...I cannot help, but feel that this 3rd spot for Ladies was treated like a hot potato that no skater had enough strenght to carry out and also by judges who kind of showed no clear intention how to 'award' it. The selection or that 3rd spot will be a misery - and the bigger one for the Fed and people who will make that call...
When it comes to Mirai and Bradie, I just can bow to their nerves, an ability to raise under immense pressure of stakes at this very Nationals. Both skaters for me resemble this focused, determined mindset that may portray them as not so very good, engaged performers inside their respective programs/themes chosen, but to be honest - it is perfectly fine with me. I feel that performance-wise/interpretation-wise Mirai was never the one with most expressive manner on ice, with her facial or body language; she was definitely more exuberant, with more 'give-me-face' type of expression in the past, while now I sense a lot more maturity, focus in her carriage that results in some sense of composure and 'regalness' in her stance in my view. She gave me an impression of incredible focused, goal-oriented performance yesterday - yes, it was not the performance with the most character and expression in it, but it had some kind of magnitude, impactful presence of her: she was soundly into music, into the moment of the skate, just with less projectionthan most people probably would wish for. As I said, for me it's okay, especially considering Mirai's history, road to this very moment, her position after SP - despite the pressure, she produced an elegant performance, exuding strenght and confidence (which was the most important thing for me) and was just more about ruling on the music and movement than getting lost inside of it. Still - this gesture after last jump, attack to the last spin (her spins tho, a class!!!), the array of emotion poured inside of the ending pose, people's reaction, Tom jumping in the background, Drew's beaming smile, their reaction on the score, Mirai's cry after finishing, standing ovation, even Beyonce's 'Run the World (Girls)' played in K'n'C - it all made up to the moment of the entire competition, I think also that Mirai's focus, this controlled manner she performed her FS with were then reciprocated and multiplied by the reaction of others.
Bradie OTOH represented for me this tranquility of control in her every movement - even if not so refined (yet), the mental toughness, confidence in execution and attack this LAdy has are quite impressive and allows me to watch her with experiencing her joy and enthusiasm over performance/skate, not the negative thrill of potential fall/pop. The thing is with Bradie for me that she really feeds of the thrill of competition, capitalizing onto her 'freshness' factor, consistency and probably mindset that comprises on this kind of execution focus, even under big pressure (not feeling it from her stance at all, just another day in the office, ending Nationals in Olympic year). This feels for me similar to Kaori Sakamoto's reception of mine - skill and talent, unrefined and rough around edges, packaging that could have been better, but boy - a competitive spirit and hunger for ages that 'veterans' often lacks, along with the right focus. I really don't mind the theme for FS program chosen (it is a Cinderella story of some sorts, after all this season for Bradie) - it is not the most sophisticated thing to see out there, but it does its job, especally executed like she did yeterday. Saying that - I do wish for a re-think of a step sequence in this FS, along with some transitions: some of positions/movements in that step seq looked very unattractive and made whole sequence choppy, disconnected and feeling as an afterthought; also - she should really pay attention more to the coordination of her upper body movement (arms especially) with feet. I general - I'd sit with her team and try to make the outlook of the program definitely more refined outside of the jumps, as she seems reallyto have them in the bag (which is such an advantage!). There are quite a few talented and/or established Ladies out there with such high, statuesque physique Bradie has to be inspired on: Carolina, Maria Sotskova, Polina to name those that popped in my mind instantly. And saying that, I do not wish, nor expect to make a va-va-voom transition in Bradie to a queen of sophistication and edge refinement in a month - what I'd love to see is developing more 'rounded' image of the program to match her incredible consistency and technical skill, as she really deserves it. I won't really dig into PCS scoring/GOE award for Bradie, but have to say that some tendencies there - comparing to the level of them applied to others - make the biggest harm to those awarding, not the awarded to be honest. But it clearly showed that a winner has to win in every category, to make some kind of 'statement' (even if it should not be always the case), but the narrative kind of went south in light of Ashley's and Karen's performances in my opinion, where the real games began.
First thing about both Ashley and Karen is heir struggle all-around (pretty much) when it comes to this very season, and it showed particularly not in so-so performances/scores in GP series, but in this going back and forth between their programs. It's just a common issue for them and one that caused so much inconsistency for them - I am not an expert, but somehow I feel that this decisive manner about programs done from the very beginning, then endless practicing them leading to the 'automatism' in execution and performance, create much better and solid environment for a skater to buld consistency, results and a reputation internationally. This - unfortunately - was missing for both Karen and Ashley. I really hate 'coulda, woulda, shoulda' mindset, but seeing yesterday Ashley's 'La la land' FS makes me restlessly wonder how could it be if she stood by this FS from the very beginning - even with 'work in progress' impression about it during GP series. This was something truly refreshing and new from her I feel, something more vulnerable, less 'face-induced', less 'make-up caked' and raw; this was really an audition of that program in from of so many people - and I really applaud her courage to do such thing. While I see a great potential in this FS, this seems to be a missed opportunity from execution/preparation standpoint: she tried her best out there (and her performer's strike, maturity were still there), but there was a sense of apprehension and being lost at places - I totally saw the direction Ashley was supposed to going with and this final effect, but this was only first 'official' try of that program and there was a feel of unfinishing/non-refined places in it, to my big despair. Then goes this popped salchow in sequence...It pains me, but this was even bigger missed opportunity from Ashley showed than turning this late to 'La la land' FS, because it was right there to grab physically, execution-wise, not in conceptual sense. As for PCS - a lot was already said there; two things that conflict a bit in my mind, thinking about how Ashley's performance went, the fact that this was 'La la land' first outing, how different it was from 'Moulin Rouge' one and how she looked on ice in comparison with other skaters (Karen especially since there's a 3rd/4th situation between them, with quite close and confusing scoring...) - first being PCS elevation for top 3 except Ashley, despite really decent, engaged performance overall. I really do think that her PCS score in some of components could have been higher, but not sure if to the level of overtaking Karen overall, both those performances left me torn and underwhelmed, mostly about those darn missed opportunities and bumps they've had all season long (self-inflicted or not). Second thing is that even if 'La la land' gives a great promise and I totally see Ashley shining the lights out of it, this was not fulfilled there and PCS should not be avarded based on the sole promise or things we desperately want to see (at least I think so). It was a totally fresh experience not only for Ashley, but also for audience and judges and I cannot help, but feel sad that the decision was not made more in advance...
And a bit about Ashley's comments, reactions, expressions...I get, I really get the frustration over it so vocally expressed out there, but can we blame her for perfectly humanly reactions, emotions expressed, regarding the situation and stakes in it, trying to see her not only as an athlete or impose on her 'athlete's behaviour' we would like to see, but a human like all of us? Seeing how her season went, how it unfolded yesterday, especially in the light of this scoring thing that was a bit all over the place regarding that 'hot potato' 3rd spot I mentioned, she has reacted the way she usually acts: unapologetic, outspoken and bold. For me, it's really nothing new about her demeanor and I did not baffled me as much as so many people; saying that, it does not mean that I support this kind of behaviour, but I fully accept it as a humanly one, taken out of emotion and pressure those athletes are experiencing. And I always try to understand those kind of statements, putting them into some perspetive, definitely outside of my personal prejudices and likings. Cannot help, but think that this is the other side of a double-sworded weapon, being a poster Lady for a long time in US Figure Skating world - the level of praise is equalled by the level of hate...
Big apologies for the lenght, will try to edit and post some thoughts also about Karen later, but I have to go for now
When it comes to Mirai and Bradie, I just can bow to their nerves, an ability to raise under immense pressure of stakes at this very Nationals. Both skaters for me resemble this focused, determined mindset that may portray them as not so very good, engaged performers inside their respective programs/themes chosen, but to be honest - it is perfectly fine with me. I feel that performance-wise/interpretation-wise Mirai was never the one with most expressive manner on ice, with her facial or body language; she was definitely more exuberant, with more 'give-me-face' type of expression in the past, while now I sense a lot more maturity, focus in her carriage that results in some sense of composure and 'regalness' in her stance in my view. She gave me an impression of incredible focused, goal-oriented performance yesterday - yes, it was not the performance with the most character and expression in it, but it had some kind of magnitude, impactful presence of her: she was soundly into music, into the moment of the skate, just with less projectionthan most people probably would wish for. As I said, for me it's okay, especially considering Mirai's history, road to this very moment, her position after SP - despite the pressure, she produced an elegant performance, exuding strenght and confidence (which was the most important thing for me) and was just more about ruling on the music and movement than getting lost inside of it. Still - this gesture after last jump, attack to the last spin (her spins tho, a class!!!), the array of emotion poured inside of the ending pose, people's reaction, Tom jumping in the background, Drew's beaming smile, their reaction on the score, Mirai's cry after finishing, standing ovation, even Beyonce's 'Run the World (Girls)' played in K'n'C - it all made up to the moment of the entire competition, I think also that Mirai's focus, this controlled manner she performed her FS with were then reciprocated and multiplied by the reaction of others.
Bradie OTOH represented for me this tranquility of control in her every movement - even if not so refined (yet), the mental toughness, confidence in execution and attack this LAdy has are quite impressive and allows me to watch her with experiencing her joy and enthusiasm over performance/skate, not the negative thrill of potential fall/pop. The thing is with Bradie for me that she really feeds of the thrill of competition, capitalizing onto her 'freshness' factor, consistency and probably mindset that comprises on this kind of execution focus, even under big pressure (not feeling it from her stance at all, just another day in the office, ending Nationals in Olympic year). This feels for me similar to Kaori Sakamoto's reception of mine - skill and talent, unrefined and rough around edges, packaging that could have been better, but boy - a competitive spirit and hunger for ages that 'veterans' often lacks, along with the right focus. I really don't mind the theme for FS program chosen (it is a Cinderella story of some sorts, after all this season for Bradie) - it is not the most sophisticated thing to see out there, but it does its job, especally executed like she did yeterday. Saying that - I do wish for a re-think of a step sequence in this FS, along with some transitions: some of positions/movements in that step seq looked very unattractive and made whole sequence choppy, disconnected and feeling as an afterthought; also - she should really pay attention more to the coordination of her upper body movement (arms especially) with feet. I general - I'd sit with her team and try to make the outlook of the program definitely more refined outside of the jumps, as she seems reallyto have them in the bag (which is such an advantage!). There are quite a few talented and/or established Ladies out there with such high, statuesque physique Bradie has to be inspired on: Carolina, Maria Sotskova, Polina to name those that popped in my mind instantly. And saying that, I do not wish, nor expect to make a va-va-voom transition in Bradie to a queen of sophistication and edge refinement in a month - what I'd love to see is developing more 'rounded' image of the program to match her incredible consistency and technical skill, as she really deserves it. I won't really dig into PCS scoring/GOE award for Bradie, but have to say that some tendencies there - comparing to the level of them applied to others - make the biggest harm to those awarding, not the awarded to be honest. But it clearly showed that a winner has to win in every category, to make some kind of 'statement' (even if it should not be always the case), but the narrative kind of went south in light of Ashley's and Karen's performances in my opinion, where the real games began.
First thing about both Ashley and Karen is heir struggle all-around (pretty much) when it comes to this very season, and it showed particularly not in so-so performances/scores in GP series, but in this going back and forth between their programs. It's just a common issue for them and one that caused so much inconsistency for them - I am not an expert, but somehow I feel that this decisive manner about programs done from the very beginning, then endless practicing them leading to the 'automatism' in execution and performance, create much better and solid environment for a skater to buld consistency, results and a reputation internationally. This - unfortunately - was missing for both Karen and Ashley. I really hate 'coulda, woulda, shoulda' mindset, but seeing yesterday Ashley's 'La la land' FS makes me restlessly wonder how could it be if she stood by this FS from the very beginning - even with 'work in progress' impression about it during GP series. This was something truly refreshing and new from her I feel, something more vulnerable, less 'face-induced', less 'make-up caked' and raw; this was really an audition of that program in from of so many people - and I really applaud her courage to do such thing. While I see a great potential in this FS, this seems to be a missed opportunity from execution/preparation standpoint: she tried her best out there (and her performer's strike, maturity were still there), but there was a sense of apprehension and being lost at places - I totally saw the direction Ashley was supposed to going with and this final effect, but this was only first 'official' try of that program and there was a feel of unfinishing/non-refined places in it, to my big despair. Then goes this popped salchow in sequence...It pains me, but this was even bigger missed opportunity from Ashley showed than turning this late to 'La la land' FS, because it was right there to grab physically, execution-wise, not in conceptual sense. As for PCS - a lot was already said there; two things that conflict a bit in my mind, thinking about how Ashley's performance went, the fact that this was 'La la land' first outing, how different it was from 'Moulin Rouge' one and how she looked on ice in comparison with other skaters (Karen especially since there's a 3rd/4th situation between them, with quite close and confusing scoring...) - first being PCS elevation for top 3 except Ashley, despite really decent, engaged performance overall. I really do think that her PCS score in some of components could have been higher, but not sure if to the level of overtaking Karen overall, both those performances left me torn and underwhelmed, mostly about those darn missed opportunities and bumps they've had all season long (self-inflicted or not). Second thing is that even if 'La la land' gives a great promise and I totally see Ashley shining the lights out of it, this was not fulfilled there and PCS should not be avarded based on the sole promise or things we desperately want to see (at least I think so). It was a totally fresh experience not only for Ashley, but also for audience and judges and I cannot help, but feel sad that the decision was not made more in advance...
And a bit about Ashley's comments, reactions, expressions...I get, I really get the frustration over it so vocally expressed out there, but can we blame her for perfectly humanly reactions, emotions expressed, regarding the situation and stakes in it, trying to see her not only as an athlete or impose on her 'athlete's behaviour' we would like to see, but a human like all of us? Seeing how her season went, how it unfolded yesterday, especially in the light of this scoring thing that was a bit all over the place regarding that 'hot potato' 3rd spot I mentioned, she has reacted the way she usually acts: unapologetic, outspoken and bold. For me, it's really nothing new about her demeanor and I did not baffled me as much as so many people; saying that, it does not mean that I support this kind of behaviour, but I fully accept it as a humanly one, taken out of emotion and pressure those athletes are experiencing. And I always try to understand those kind of statements, putting them into some perspetive, definitely outside of my personal prejudices and likings. Cannot help, but think that this is the other side of a double-sworded weapon, being a poster Lady for a long time in US Figure Skating world - the level of praise is equalled by the level of hate...
Big apologies for the lenght, will try to edit and post some thoughts also about Karen later, but I have to go for now
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2017
Added to all this, they also had Polina Edmunds kind of appearing out of nowhere and giving even more weight to the racial issue in this whole controversy. So I understand why I see so much vitriol over blonde US princesses on twitter these days.
Ah! This is actually a very good explanation. Thank you. And I guess NBC still kind of does, but this time USFSA covered their bases by releasing more open criteria for selection.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2012
Please get your facts straight.
Mirai DID compete at 2014 Four Continents.
Very unfair to her to claim that she "was not interested."
(Unfortunately, Mirai was ill at 2014 Four Continents, and her illness was detrimental to her results there. But it is not true that she "was not interested.")
And I would point out that some Mirai supporters did not disagree with the 2014 decision. It was/is possible to feel terrible for Mirai about what unfolded for her in 2014 -- without having a complaint against the 2014 decision.
I think partially it is because for Athletics (Track and Field) and Swimming (which are more popular), the Olympic trials is All or Nothing. You could have won gold in your event at Worlds last year but if you are not top three at US trials, you will not be in the team.
Thus it would be assumed that the US Figure Skating Nationals in the Olympic Year (which is held every year and not once in four years) is the same as the Athletics and Swimming Olympic trials.
Hmm, maybe you are right. I remembered she declined something that USFS offered her to compensate for her not going to Olympics.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2012
Repeat: Mirai DID compete at 2014 Four Continents.
As shown on the official results page: http://www.isuresults.com/results/fc2014/CAT002RS.HTM.
No "maybe" about it.
I don't recall Mirai declining anything, so I am wondering what you are talking about.
Lest anyone wonder: Mirai was not offered a spot at 2014 Worlds. USFS sent Gracie, Polina, and Ashley to both Sochi and 2014 Worlds.
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2015
This totally. Ashley was definitely the better choice at that time but I felt terrible for Mirai.
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2009
If I recall correctly, Mirai did go to 4CC in 2014, but she skated rather poorly. 11th place or something.
At the time, it was her chance to show "I told you so, Nationals wasn't a fluke!"
At the time, it was her chance to show "I told you so, Nationals wasn't a fluke!"
- Joined
- Nov 24, 2006
Oh Ashley... Olympic Nationals just aren't her thing. In 2010 only 2 people went, and she placed third. 2014 3 people, and she placed 4th, and again the same for 2018. And IIRC she was within ONE clean jump to move up a spot all those times.
I just don't see the committee helping her out this time. She's done nothing to set herself apart as the strongest US lady this time around. Not only that, but as a potential medalist like she was in 2014. Why would USFS create another controversy over her when she's not competitive internationally anymore and is probably a 8/9th place at best in SoKorea?
I liked her LLL program. Problem is I've never seen the movie so I really wanted to hear the vocals to understand what she's skating to but Tara was babbling all throughout. Very annoying.
I just don't see the committee helping her out this time. She's done nothing to set herself apart as the strongest US lady this time around. Not only that, but as a potential medalist like she was in 2014. Why would USFS create another controversy over her when she's not competitive internationally anymore and is probably a 8/9th place at best in SoKorea?
I liked her LLL program. Problem is I've never seen the movie so I really wanted to hear the vocals to understand what she's skating to but Tara was babbling all throughout. Very annoying.
