- Joined
- Jan 3, 2007
2018 US Championships Sr. Ladies FS
- Thread starter dorispulaski
- Start date
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2017
But sorry to say it like that.. didn't she just screw herself over with that? I mean thats some pretty petty thinking if thats what was going on.
well I'd wait with my resignation until after 4cc. Even though I don't hope for it, injuries can happen and Ashley is first alternate at the Olympics.
I don't think it's petty. I'd feel used too, if at nationals the judges suddenly decides (without warning whatsoever) to give me pretty low PCS but then still say, you know, international judges appreciate you so we want you to go to worlds and secure the 3 spots for someone else next season. But we ourselves don't appreciate you enough to score you higher PCS (even though your skating hasn't regressed).
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2015
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2007
I don't think it would be wrong to send Karen to the Olympics, but it makes me sad because I think Karen, even if she may have the potential of scoring higher than Ashley at the Olympics, is a less unique skater overall. Ashley may not have the consistency or confidence she had in prior seasons, but she still tells a story on the ice like literally nobody else in the world. She is always exciting to watch, whether she does well or poorly. I don't think she should go to the Olympics purely because of this quality, but it is extremely sad to see someone like her miss out by so close a margin. Add in the fact that she played such an important role in the U.S. having 3 spots the past six years, and in getting 3 spots back after Alissa Czisny, Emily Hughes, Rachael Flatt, and yes Mirai Nagasu lost them in 2009-2012, and it is extra sad. This could possibly be the last competition of Ashley's career, and IMO is not an appropriate bookend for her.
It it were up to me, which obviously it is not, I would send Ashley to the Olympics, on the theory that her PCS were underscored and she would have been in third place if given her typical international scores. That way Ashley gets her swan song (and she always skates best when she feels she is the underdog). Karen is very unlikely to win an Olympic medal even if she skates perfectly, and the U.S. needs her to have the motivation to stick around for another quad and to fix her serious underrotation issues. I would send her to Worlds.
Like I said though, I don't think it would be wrong, and may even be more appropriate, to send Karen to Olympics. (Ashley's anger also is not a great look - she should let Rafael do the yelling.)
In contrast, I am beyond happy for Mirai. Although I don't think she has been scored unfairly over the past several years, and I still do not think she is a great performer or has the transitions or skating skills to be a leader internationally, she has clearly put in so much work to change the judges' opinions and get them to reevaluate their dismissal of her as a medal challenger. It is so inspiring to see that kind of effort and drive pay off, and I am so happy that she not only will be going, but that there is absolutely no question that she's going and deserves to go (unlike last time).
With respect to Bradie, I don't believe that her level of consistency has been seen in the U.S. since Michelle Kwan. And while she is no Ashley in the performance department, she is at least as good a performer as Mirai on a normal day and not significantly worse than Karen or the other U.S. skaters, who are all pretty stone-faced and average. Her landings are larger, more rock solid, and have better flow than even many Russians, and I think people are being premature when they say she has no chance of getting high PCS in Skating Skills and Transitions, at least, from international judges. She got surprisingly good scores from international judges in her first senior international GP this year despite nobody having heard of her and her not being on the USFSA radar whatsoever, so I think the international community is not opposed to scoring her as a threat.
While I do think Ashley was underscored in PCS (it makes no sense to score her less than the international panels do), I think the person most underscored this nationals was Mariah.
Starr is great and I look forward to seeing what happens with her in the next quad. I hope she isn't discouraged that she had such good skates and still placed relatively low. I hope she is sent to and does well at junior worlds. I also think they should send her to FCC.
ETA: didn't realize they had already announced the Olympic, World, and FCC teams when I posted this. I am fine with the decision, although sad for Ashley.
It it were up to me, which obviously it is not, I would send Ashley to the Olympics, on the theory that her PCS were underscored and she would have been in third place if given her typical international scores. That way Ashley gets her swan song (and she always skates best when she feels she is the underdog). Karen is very unlikely to win an Olympic medal even if she skates perfectly, and the U.S. needs her to have the motivation to stick around for another quad and to fix her serious underrotation issues. I would send her to Worlds.
Like I said though, I don't think it would be wrong, and may even be more appropriate, to send Karen to Olympics. (Ashley's anger also is not a great look - she should let Rafael do the yelling.)
In contrast, I am beyond happy for Mirai. Although I don't think she has been scored unfairly over the past several years, and I still do not think she is a great performer or has the transitions or skating skills to be a leader internationally, she has clearly put in so much work to change the judges' opinions and get them to reevaluate their dismissal of her as a medal challenger. It is so inspiring to see that kind of effort and drive pay off, and I am so happy that she not only will be going, but that there is absolutely no question that she's going and deserves to go (unlike last time).
With respect to Bradie, I don't believe that her level of consistency has been seen in the U.S. since Michelle Kwan. And while she is no Ashley in the performance department, she is at least as good a performer as Mirai on a normal day and not significantly worse than Karen or the other U.S. skaters, who are all pretty stone-faced and average. Her landings are larger, more rock solid, and have better flow than even many Russians, and I think people are being premature when they say she has no chance of getting high PCS in Skating Skills and Transitions, at least, from international judges. She got surprisingly good scores from international judges in her first senior international GP this year despite nobody having heard of her and her not being on the USFSA radar whatsoever, so I think the international community is not opposed to scoring her as a threat.
While I do think Ashley was underscored in PCS (it makes no sense to score her less than the international panels do), I think the person most underscored this nationals was Mariah.
Starr is great and I look forward to seeing what happens with her in the next quad. I hope she isn't discouraged that she had such good skates and still placed relatively low. I hope she is sent to and does well at junior worlds. I also think they should send her to FCC.
ETA: didn't realize they had already announced the Olympic, World, and FCC teams when I posted this. I am fine with the decision, although sad for Ashley.
For those interested, Mirai's most recent Instagram story indicated she'll be sort of featured (presumably with Karen and Bradie) on the NBCOlympics IG today about the craziness today is holding post-announcement to the team.
There are a couple stories now on the NBCOlympics IG stories - so might be worth popping over to once in awhile today if you don't pay attention to it normally (and stories meaning not just the regular pictures posted in the main feed)
There are a couple stories now on the NBCOlympics IG stories - so might be worth popping over to once in awhile today if you don't pay attention to it normally (and stories meaning not just the regular pictures posted in the main feed)
Bradie - no way. Her PCs are just too low. There is Evgenia, Alina, Maria, Satoko, Kaetlyn etc. who all can make several mistakes and still place above a clean Badie because of their PCS.
Mirai - not likely. Her PCS are not that high internationally either and frankly, she doesn't deserve them to be that high. In addition, she skates to the same Chopin music Evgenia is using and Evgenia's program and execution is much better than Mirai's. She'll be likely buried in the SP, especially if she tries the 3axel and doesn't land it cleanly (very likely). And if she's not in the last group in the FS, then her chances for a medal is gone.
Karen - if she skates like she did yesterday, she's the most likely to medal as her SS are way above Mirai's or Bradie's. But Karen is prone to bombing and she could end up anything between 20th and 3rd.
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2004
Why would they give Ashley Worlds? It would be Bradie's first, Karen's second and Mirai hasn't gone in years.
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- Joined
- Dec 5, 2015
Mirai went in 2016.
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2014
No, a fat chance of it and I think the same Russian team for Olympics will be there and Kostner might want to finish her career at Worlds in her homeland. I also can't see any chance of Bradie beating even Sotskova among the Russians because she has nothing but her consistency on her small jumps. I've been critical about Sotskova's SS and somewhat sleep-inviting programs, but by comparison, Maria has miles better than Bradie in every aspects. Osmond and the Japanese ladies are also far from her reach.
Mirai's main problems are her consistency and URs, so I also can't see the picture that she wins a World medal in the current field.
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2015
Karen doesn't have a chance either unless about 7 women fall twice. International judging panels do not respond to her. She got higher PCS at Worlds but the judges dropped her PCS as soon as the Grand Prix Season started again and she gets so many under-rotation and edge calls in international competition,
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2017
Congratulations to Bradie, Mirai, Karen on going to the olympics Great job.
- Joined
- Dec 13, 2016
Happy for Karen, Mirai, and Bradie! It will make a fun team.
I don't feel sorry for Ashley after her comments last night. Not even one little bit. Really left a bad taste in my mouth considering she is one of two skaters who, in my opinion, benefit the most from the part of the scoring system that is most broken and unfair. (There are plenty of people who should be furious. If the words had come out of Zijun Li's mouth for example, it would be a totally different story. However, Wagner is pretty much the second to last person who should ever complain about PCS.) Wagner expected her reputation to get her to Pyeongchang. But in the end, she didn't deliver. So, adieu.
I don't feel sorry for Ashley after her comments last night. Not even one little bit. Really left a bad taste in my mouth considering she is one of two skaters who, in my opinion, benefit the most from the part of the scoring system that is most broken and unfair. (There are plenty of people who should be furious. If the words had come out of Zijun Li's mouth for example, it would be a totally different story. However, Wagner is pretty much the second to last person who should ever complain about PCS.) Wagner expected her reputation to get her to Pyeongchang. But in the end, she didn't deliver. So, adieu.
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2010
Sure... any program could be improved and refined, but a great debut with rawness and authenticity can also be powerful and infectious, much like experiencing Nathen's programs earlier in the season and being so wowed by it.
The narrative of Lala land brings a nice 'life imitates art' nostalgia quality that fit PERFECTLY at this stage of her career. It would have made a great curtain call finale program (think of the show circuits after). Stuff dreams are made out of. Have dreams, work hard, make sacrifices, take risks, crushing dream, written off, great comeback, ends up on being bittersweetness but acceptance of the costs. (I almost wish Mirai could have got this gig, I love her but not her programs this year. Last year was better.) Lala land also brings out a more vulnerable, modest and (IMHO) endearing side to her skating which we havn't really seen before, and wish we could have got more of. Ironically I think can really help with her public 'persona/perception' that apparently seems to affect judges scoring (terrible silly reason, it shouldn't be about a personality contest!). The fact the movie had an almost 'it' moment @ the Oscar ironically also seem to fit her 'almost' PCS winning moments at this competition, followed by many WTH happened reactions...
If you are going to inflate, inflate everyone equally, if you are going to be strict with tech, then apply equally. Targeted judging and federation politics is just embarrasing for the sport.
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2015
Yeah, those were weird PCS marks. I think it is was because based on the selection criteria Karen Chen was already ahead of Ashley. If Ashley had won the bronze medal and they had sent Karen over her it might have caused a problem so they deflated her PCS. Anyway, Ashley has a tone of Grand Prix medals, medals from the Grand Prix final, a world's silver medal. She has had a great career. And, who knows maybe this experience will make her so mad that she doesn't retire but instead competes next year just to shove it to the USFSA.
I have a dream... I wish in a perfect skating world judges would just be bound to their own conscience. I wish they'd just mark what they see on the ice. Those GOE's and PCS scores are so obviously wrong. I mean the Federation may opt whomever they want for the Olympic team but don't bribe the judges. I guess USFS will pay the bill at Olympics and Worlds. The US ladies might have a hard time gaining 3 spots again. However, good for Russia and Japan. Let's just take Russian and Japanese Nationals and call it 'Worlds'.
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2004
Will the US ladies earn a individual medal at the Olympics probably not but I don't think
it will be all gloom and doom for them. I think they will step up and have a very respectful
finish.
it will be all gloom and doom for them. I think they will step up and have a very respectful
finish.
