Highest Base Mark for Jumps Ladies

[antmanb]

Ok so i've been procrastinating and trying to think of a program that might be doable by one of the talented ladies out there. I started thinking that 3 3/3s is probably the highest point getter and leaves you with three spots to do your allowed three double axels:

3Lz/3R
3F/3R
3Lz
3S/3T/2R
2A
2A
2A

Base Mark: 47.4

So then looking at e.g. a skater who could do two triple axels:

3F/3R
3Lz/3R/2R
3A/3T
3A
3S
2A
2Lz

I can't remember what the new rule is about double axels - could the skater above be allowed a 4th axel type jump for final pass? I've assumed not hence the 2Lz at the end.

Base Mark: 51.7

But then the only skater who might be able to complete the two double axel program might be Mao and we have yet to see if she could include a 3S.

Without the 3S, if my assumptions are correct about the three axel jumps then the 3S would become a 2A and the final two jupming passes would become 2Lz to give a base mark of : 49.1

So which of the ladies will do three 3/3s?!

Ant

 

[Mathman]

I like it! :chorus:

The rule about Axels very specifically says no more than three double Axels. I don't see anything to prevent a skater from going

3A
3A+1A seq
2A
2A
2A
1A+1A+1A seq
1A+1A seq (Sonia Henie's big trick ).

= 27.6 base points.

 

[Tinymavy15]

I don't like it when skater do three double axels in the LP. It seems that we are seeing more of that since CoP, i guess so they can still have thier seven triples, at leasy two of which in a 3/3 combo and still have a lot of jumping passes.

 

[GoldMedalist]

I don't like it when skater do three double axels in the LP. It seems that we are seeing more of that since CoP.

It was a very standard occurrence in the 70's and 80's.

 

[Mathman]

But in the 70s and 80s a double Axel was still a big highlight move, since ladies did not have a full complement of triples. Now, it is becoming just something to throw in because the Zayak rules won't let you do anything more.

In her Worlds LPs Mao Asada did 3A, 2A+3T, and 2A. Yu-na Kim did 2A+3T, 2A and 2A (Kim could have done another flip instead).

I agree with Tinymavy. A program like Antman's example, with all those triple-triples, then petering out to two or three double Axels by default, ought to lose some PCS points for composition of the program.

 

[Mathman]

Bold added:

Ok so i've been procrastinating and trying to think of a program that might be doable by one of the talented ladies out there. I started thinking that 3 3/3s is probably the highest point getter and leaves you with three spots to do your allowed three double axels:

3Lz/3R (<, -1 GOE)
3F/3R
3Lz
3S/3T/2R
2A
2A
2A

Base Mark: 47.4 (42.9)

So which of the ladies will do three 3/3s?!

Michelle:

3Lz+2T (+1 GOE)
3F+2T
2A+3T
3Lz
3F
3S
2A (+1 GOE)

Total: 43.1.

Michelle wins!!!!!

 

[GoldMedalist]

In her Worlds LPs Mao Asada did 3A, 2A+3T, and 2A. Yu-na Kim did 2A+3T, 2A and 2A (Kim could have done another flip instead).

She actually couldn't, having already done 2 Lutzes and 2 Toeloops.

 

[antmanb]

Bold added:Michelle:

3Lz+2T (+1 GOE)
3F+2T
2A+3T
3Lz
3F
3S
2A (+1 GOE)

Total: 43.1.

Michelle wins!!!!!

Add a 1.5 for a double loop she could also put on the end of the one of the combos!!

I agree - michelle to come back and give the young whiper snappers a run for their money!

(though that 2A/3T is pretty tricky).

Ant

 

[goldenpleasures]

Bold added:Michelle:

3Lz+2T (+1 GOE)
3F+2T
2A+3T
3Lz
3F
3S
2A (+1 GOE)

Total: 43.1.

Michelle wins!!!!!

I like Michelle, but when did she ever do 2A-3T???

 

[Mathman]

She actually couldn't, having already done 2 Lutzes and 2 Toeloops.

Oh. So she did. I wonder, then, what she gains by her 2A+3T. It would help her a lot if she could upgrade upgrade her 3F+3T to 3F+3Lo.

(though that 2A/3T is pretty tricky).

I like Michelle, but when did she ever do 2A-3T???

This is the new Michelle. Note that she didn't do a loop -- doctors orders. The CoP discourages the 3T-3T (lest the skater end up like Yu-na Kim, having wasted her repitition of jumps on toe loops). Michelle's 2A has always been an excellent jump for her, so this is her new substitue for a triple/triple.

Actually, though, it didn't help Michelle much in this fantasy program. But if she could have done a 3 loop instead of the solo double Axel, then the point of the 2A+3T is that it is the only way to do seven triples without a triple-triple.

Anyway, what was intriguing to me, looking at Antman's maximal program with three triple-triples, including 3Lz+3Lo and 3F+3Lo, is that with one small mistake it can be beaten by a "routine" program with no triple-triples (and no loop).

 

[antmanb]

Oh. So she did. I wonder, then, what she gains by her 2A+3T. It would help her a lot if she could upgrade upgrade her 3F+3T to 3F+3Lo.This is the new Michelle. Note that she didn't do a loop -- doctors orders. The CoP discourages the 3T-3T (lest the skater end up like Yu-na Kim, having wasted her repitition of jumps on toe loops). Michelle's 2A has always been an excellent jump for her, so this is her new substitue for a triple/triple.

Actually, though, it didn't help Michelle much in this fantasy program. But if she could have done a 3 loop instead of the solo double Axel, then the point of the 2A+3T is that it is the only way to do seven triples without a triple-triple.

Anyway, what was intriguing to me, looking at Antman's maximal program with three triple-triples, including 3Lz+3Lo and 3F+3Lo, is that with one small mistake it can be beaten by a "routine" program with no triple-triples (and no loop).

And the other thing that i noticed when looking at the program is that if a skater can do the double lutz so as do recieve +3 on the GOE...which could be achieved by mastering a nice fast flowing 'tano double lutz with the spread eagle entrance - they would take home more points than a base level double axel!

Ant

 

[Mathman]

And the other thing that i noticed when looking at the program is that if a skater can do the double lutz so as do recieve +3 on the GOE...which could be achieved by mastering a nice fast flowing 'tano double lutz with the spread eagle entrance - they would take home more points than a base level double axel!

...almost. A +3 GOE on a double Lutz is only worth 1.5 extra points, for a total of 3.4. Still a tenth of a point less than the new value for a 2A.

 

[antmanb]

...almost. A +3 GOE on a double Lutz is only worth 1.5 extra points, for a total of 3.4. Still a tenth of a point less than the new value for a 2A.

Ah - i was using the old scale of values!

Ant

 

[GoldMedalist]

Oh. So she did. I wonder, then, what she gains by her 2A+3T. It would help her a lot if she could upgrade upgrade her 3F+3T to 3F+3Lo.

She gains consistency.

 

[Tinymavy15]

It was a very standard occurrence in the 70's and 80's.

yes, becaue 2 axels were considered very difficult for ladies back them, almost no lady had all the triples. so tio fill up the program they had to repeat somthing a few times.

 

[blue dog]

What a lot of people forget is that having a double axel for the ladies trying to seriously master the triple is very difficult. The double axel timing is vastly different from the triple axel. And, the double axel isn't going anywhere, no matter how many triple axels these ladies land--it is still in the SP.

Allowing three double axels seems easy, but it is still difficult. However, I agree, that it lessens the variety in a program. I'd rather see all five types of triples.