Who can defeat the Russian Women in 2021-22?

[silveruskate]

Not just scoring changes but PCS inflation year on year in Jrs. If Alina switched with Daria/Kamila she would be the one with higher Jr PCS.

 

[AlysaLiuStan]

I didn't say she was a mediocre junior. I'm saying her PCS marks aren't going to rise like Alina's did. Alysa is going to go into these GP events skating against three very good Russians and one or two very good Japanese skaters. She's not going to get 75+ LP PCS skating against those athletes.

Maybe not 75+, but I don't even think any Russian currently would get that high, except for maybe Scherbakova and Valieva.

Alysa most certainly wont be in the low 60's like many just assume. Her PCS will be at least ~68

 

[Azikin]

I'd say Elena Kostyleva has more maturity, speed, depth than Alysa!!!

This.

 

[[email protected]]

Has Daria, Maiia, Trusova ever scored above 75?

Sasha is a free program skater. Even then she scored above 74 multiple times including 74.95 which is kind of close to 75. What about Alysa? As for Daria and Maia, they have not had a chance to compete internationally in seniors. However, judging by local competitions, Daria will score well above 75 in the short program. But even this is irrelevant. What is relevant is that those who are in the Russian Olympic team will surely score above 75, meltdown aside. But I assume no one wishes Russian girls to fail?

 

[anonymoose_au]

Alysa's programs this year did not help either.

What was wrong with Alysa's programs? I only saw them once but I thought they were charming and fun.

i hope they actually package her as a senior lady

What does this even mean? Alysa can't be taken seriously unless she skates to a specific type of music in a specific type of way? Sounds boring as Hell TBH.

 

[figureskatingandrainbows]

What was wrong with Alysa's programs? I only saw them once but I thought they were charming and fun.

I thought her programs were fun , especially for this year, but something like that isn't as charming in the international senior ranks. I really want Alysa (and a lot of the other ladies) to find a genre of music that really suits them and develop their own style.

 

[macy]

I didn't say she was a mediocre junior. I'm saying her PCS marks aren't going to rise like Alina's did. Alysa is going to go into these GP events skating against three very good Russians and one or two very good Japanese skaters. She's not going to get 75+ LP PCS skating against those athletes.

agree. there isn't much sense to comparing Alysa to Alina at all. Alina went from an unknown to Olympic champion in one season. she was the best in the world and best in Russia.

if we wanted to compare someone more similarly, it would be Kamila in her junior debut season (the same as Alysa's)

 

[macy]

What was wrong with Alysa's programs? I only saw them once but I thought they were charming and fun.


What does this even mean? Alysa can't be taken seriously unless she skates to a specific type of music in a specific type of way? Sounds boring as Hell TBH.

there's nothing "wrong" with them, but she needs to show she's on the same level as the other top ladies in the world. juniorish, childlike programs aren't going to do her any favors at all in an Olympic season when Kamila, Dasha and Maiia will be showing they aren't juniors anymore and want to be taken seriously as top skaters in the world.

 

[kirauza343]

Alysa’s programs were fine this past season because guess what: she was a junior. And honestly it was nice to see a younger skater get to actually embrace that instead of trying to pull off something too old for them. We don’t need anymore 13-15 year olds trying to do Je Suis Malade or Moulin Rouge or whatever heavy song that draws from life experience they can’t possibly relate to.

These skaters are still kids and actually seeing a top skater skating to something where she can embrace that is refreshing. There isn’t just one brand of artistry and the Russian style isn’t the end all be all. Alysa is still a very charming and charismatic performer! That shouldn’t be overlooked just because her style is different.

 

[bostonskaterguy86]

There isn’t just one brand of artistry and the Russian style isn’t the end all be all. Alysa is still a very charming and charismatic performer! That shouldn’t be overlooked just because her style is different.

I don't disagree with you at all - I just wish I had confidence that the judges felt the same way...

 

[DreamSkates]

Eteri once said she is not much interested in coaching foreigners, after all Lilbet, Morisi or Nika are foreigners only formally. Though this might not be absolute. It seems hungarian lady Júlia Láng enjoyed her recent three weeks practise in Khrustalnyi pretty much. I can see it the way that if there will be more practises like this one and there will be mutual satisfaction, Eteri can think about taking more foreigners and there will be more foreigners interested in joining Eteri's group.

And why would she take on non-Russians who would become more competitive with her own country's top skaters. Seems smarter to be a top coach, with her team, where she is, focusing on Russian skaters and seeing how many of them can be on the podium at international events, especially the Olympics.

 

[DreamSkates]

I wanted Amber at Worlds and thought she deserved it more, but in hindsight, sending Karen paid off as she got way more carrots than Amber would have ever received. Should the US have gotten 3 spots? Probably not. But Amber not going means she has a better shot at the Olympics than if she had gone instead of Karen to Worlds 2021. Amber was phenomenal at Nationals but her international personal best is 18 points shy of what Karen received at Worlds and would have put her out of the top 10. Karen being a former National champion (and a better skater, artistically, than Glenn) made her a much easier sell, and it got the US the spots.

Depending on how Tennell, Bell, Liu and Chen do this coming year, Amber would have a "hard row to hoe" to get to the Olympics.

 

[DreamSkates]

there's nothing "wrong" with them, but she needs to show she's on the same level as the other top ladies in the world. juniorish, childlike programs aren't going to do her any favors at all in an Olympic season when Kamila, Dasha and Maiia will be showing they aren't juniors anymore and want to be taken seriously as top skaters in the world.

That seems it would reflect more on the coaches as young skaters don't likely choose their own music, or if they do, should be coached on what sells in the international community. I thought this year's programs were a way for her to step up her ability to express artistically, as a step toward more maturity as a skater.

 

[DreamSkates]

If no one has yet mentioned this aspect - given the current standings, politics, talent or whatever else - who do you think is most hungry for an Olympic win? I would say Trusova, since she has finished behind the other Russian ladies on the podiums, and has the most potential firepower, might be the most motivated and push the hardest for a win.

Not saying the others aren't motivated or training hard, but there is something to be said for hunger in competition. Eteri has mentioned that in interviews, that she looks for skaters who are hungry to learn, to accomplish more, and want to be at the top in every way.

So yeah my secret wish is that Trusova triumphs by landing all her quads and everything else, in two skates of her life, in both the SP and LP and tops everyone else.

 

[flanker]

As for the Alysa's matter, I think she can be really strong competitor to the russian ladies if she restores her jumps, removes her inclination to URs and gets reasonable choreos. She is definitely promising in that way, but also the big unknown considering the last season. I also do not think that "arguments" like "there is no universe where Maiia's PCS would be higher than Alysa" help her much in the eyes of figure skating fans (incl. mine).

I will judge Alysa's chances when I see her after the summer.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Depending on how Tennell, Bell, Liu and Chen do this coming year, Amber would have a "hard row to hoe" to get to the Olympics.

Yeah it depends on how they do, but the US has 3 spots and Amber is the reigning US silver medalist. So it's not entirely out of the realm of reason. Especially if Glenn gets a consistent 3A.

 

[Weathergal]

Yeah it depends on how they do, but the US has 3 spots and Amber is the reigning US silver medalist. So it's not entirely out of the realm of reason. Especially if Glenn gets a consistent 3A.

Hopefully the US has three spots for ladies. They earned the right to compete for a third spot at Nebelhorn, but the spot will have to be won there.

 

[Jontor]

This thread needs a reminder about this. The 9th (!!) lady at Russian Nationals.
Note that she does two 3Lz+triple combos. For example, Karen Chen has no 3+3's.
The Russian ladies are technically just so much better, I think it will be very hard for anyone to beat them next season.

Мария Талалайкина. Произвольная программа. Женщины. Чемпионат России по фигурному катанию 2021

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Sorry, But I just had to. Love this program by Talalaikina.

 

[gmyers]

Agreed! Hard to see it!

 

[DreamSkates]

Yeah it depends on how they do, but the US has 3 spots and Amber is the reigning US silver medalist. So it's not entirely out of the realm of reason. Especially if Glenn gets a consistent 3A.

Not entirely out of a possibility - you never know with skating but if the current top 3 plus Bell rise to the occasion then not likely. But I was shocked when Jason Brown missed the team, so I may once again be shocked while others are enjoying the results.