Women's FS - 2022 Olympics: Thoughts?

[alexocfp]

The reason that you should be opposed to drugs in sports is because it is a barbaric practice that casts the athletes in the position of throw-away pawns that are paraded out for the enjoyment of us Caesars. In the olden days the Roman gladiators underwent extensive training so that the public could cheer at the spectacle of watching them kill each other.

Killing by drugs takes a little longer. It may my take several years before the athletes actually die of cancer or of long-term health problems associated with extreme weight control.

I remember when U.S. wrestler Rulon Gardner was about to take on thre Soviet legend Alexandr Karelin at the 2000 Olympics. Gardner boasted, "I'm ready. Now we'll see who has the best pharmacologists, U.S. or Russsia." I for one do not enjoy watching teams of pharmcologists going at it in the ring. Garner later ballooned up too 600 pounds and suffered from many physical and emotional problems.

Personally I wopuld rather watch teams of robots compete. That would be more interesting: which country has the best computer programmers and robotic engineers?

But that’s the thing. Obviously, they can be dangerous and have side effects, but even then, people still do it.

After all the years of research into steroids, you would think nobody will want to take them, but business is booming.

Making it legal also makes it safer for the athletes because they wouldn’t need to go to these shady doctors and trainers to get gear.

They can have professional supervision of these things, can get drugs made specifically for their purposes, can get their blood pumped in and out safely, etc.

Or we can continue this way and keep up the facade.

Pro sports, at the highest echelons at least, are a barbaric practice with or without drugs. I’ve come to peace with that a long time ago.

And I’m not the smartest person in the world, but I’m not the stupidest either. You can’t do a lot of these sports excellently without help.

You can’t cycle for 3 weeks straight up the alps and be in great condition in the second week without help. You can’t play a full season of pro American football without help. You can’t play tennis and have more stamina at 35 that you did at 25 without help. And if you want to ski 50k, coincidentally, you get asthma.

 

[Mathman]

You can’t cycle for 3 weeks straight up the alps and be in great condition in the second week without help. You can’t play a full season of pro American football without help. You can’t play tennis and have more stamina at 35 that you did at 25 without help.

I guess my response would be, stop riding your stupid bike up the Alps, you idiot.

But instead we clamor for it and lionize those who do it. To me, therein lies the fault. Not in the (sports) stars, but in ourselves (dear Brutus. )

 

[alexocfp]

I guess my response would be, stop riding your stupid bike up the Alps, you idiot.

But instead we clamor for it and lionize those who do it. To me, therein lies the fault. Not in the (sports) stars, but in ourselves (dear Brutus. )

Good post.

But they do because, we as fans, not only watch them, but make them rich and idolize them for it. So you see why the attraction to do it is there.

I can be rich, famous, do whatever I want, and have swarms of fans at my feet. That’s quite a siren, I would say, no?

Well, not me personally since I have zero athletic ability and PED’a would most likely dis enhance my skills. Haha

 

[Mathman]

Good post.

But they do because, we as fans, not only watch them, but make them rich and idolize them for it. So you see why the attraction to do it is there.

I can be rich, famous, do whatever I want, and have swarms of fans at my feet. That’s quite a siren, I would say, no?

Yes. That is what I am trying to say. The blame for this unhealthy situation rests on us (the fans), not on the athletes.

 

[iceskater10]

But that’s the thing. Obviously, they can be dangerous and have side effects, but even then, people still do it.

After all the years of research into steroids, you would think nobody will want to take them, but business is booming.

Making it legal also makes it safer for the athletes because they wouldn’t need to go to these shady doctors and trainers to get gear.

They can have professional supervision of these things, can get drugs made specifically for their purposes, can get their blood pumped in and out safely, etc.

Or we can continue this way and keep up the facade.

Pro sports, at the highest echelons at least, are a barbaric practice with or without drugs. I’ve come to peace with that a long time ago.

And I’m not the smartest person in the world, but I’m not the stupidest either. You can’t do a lot of these sports excellently without help.

You can’t cycle for 3 weeks straight up the alps and be in great condition in the second week without help. You can’t play a full season of pro American football without help. You can’t play tennis and have more stamina at 35 that you did at 25 without help. And if you want to ski 50k, coincidentally, you get asthma.

Dude really????

 

[chuckm]

But was it a mistake to think the only way she could win was by going for them? At Russian Nationals (December 2020) not this year) a fabulously skated SP with only a 2A got her 75.40 points while both Kamila and Anna were ahead of her. Anna by so much that only a 3A with +GOE would have tied her with Anna or given her the lead. And both Anna and Kamila made errors and yet Sasha was the one down in 4th.

And in the FS Sasha's 2 Quad Lutz, Quad Lutz-3T combination and 3 3-3 combination long program was scored 170.XX points. And distantly in 3rd place behind Anna's 183.00 and Kamila in the FS. She places 3rd overall.

So when she focuses on the "artistry" skating clean and with only 2 Quads and no 3A her reward is to get scored behind the leader by 20 points! So she needed 2-3 more quads just to beat a 1-Quad Anna at Nationals.

Then when she makes history here she is still scored behind Anna, I do not count Sasha winning the FS by less than 2 points a fair margin. Anna should fairly be very ahead in the SP, Sasha should have been ahead significantly in the FS and then it should have been a nail-biter like in 2018 as to who gained the victory.


But Sasha is treated unfairly either way. She goes for clean easy content for her but still the hardest in the Russian field and performed both programs to the highest quality and is told hey not good enough you get 4th, 3rd, and 3rd overall, you need a 3A and 4-5 Quads so your bv will be so high they cannot cheat you out of the victory. Then in another competition she goes for the 3Axel 4-5 Quads and executes most of it and her bv advantage still conveniently evaporates and everyone says oh go for only a double Axel on the SP and 2-3 Quads and you would've won. As if that makes any sense mathematically.

SP at Rus Nats with a 2A in Dec 2020: 75.XX
SP at 2022 Olympics with 3A>fsll: 74.XX

LP at Rus Nat with 2 QLz: 170.XX
LP at 2022 Olympics with 5 Quads: 177.XX

No matter what she does she is always punished, she tries the "Artistic" way and she loses to the 1-Quad skater to the point where she needed to more than double her technical content to win mathematically. Sasha goes for the maximum and the other skater is still conveniently lifted high enough for her to lose overall to 2 Quads. Sasha should have won or it should have come down to 0.XX points

I have never seen Sasha do an "artistic" performance. As long as she focuses solely on jumps, she will not win a major competition like Olympics or Worlds. She skates head down, looking intently at the ice, ignores whatever music she's skating to, shows no emotion other than self-satisfaction, has no transitions, doesn't bother with performance or interpretation. Even on the rare occasion, like these Olympics, where she doesn't fall, her jumps aren't clean, with 2-foot and stepout. Her spins are subpar.

Figure skating is more than jumps. Sasha rejects that, and that's why she didn't achieve what she most wanted. Her rivals have better-rounded skating skills and well-developed performance skills, and that is why they can beat her with fewer quads.

 

[Mathman]

Figure skating is more than jumps. Sasha rejects that, and that's why she didn't achieve what she most wanted. Her rivals have better-rounded skating skills and well-developed performance skills, and that is why they can beat her with fewer quads.

The funny thing, though, is that Trusova did win the free skate with "nothing more than quads." If they change the rules to allow quads in the SP for women, she could win the whole thing.

 

[Arigato]

You can’t play tennis and have more stamina at 35 that you did at 25 without help.

5 hours, 24 minutes
2022 Australian Open – Men's singles final
Age 35

They test players, so I'm not sure where you're going with that. I'm not a fan of conspiracy theories.

 

[Shayuki]

You can’t cycle for 3 weeks straight up the alps and be in great condition in the second week without help. You can’t play a full season of pro American football without help. You can’t play tennis and have more stamina at 35 that you did at 25 without help. And if you want to ski 50k, coincidentally, you get asthma.

You can have more stamina at 35 than at 25, usually your endurance even increases as you get older - marathon runners for example tend to be better older, at least to an extent.

And that's just not true on skiing 50k. I know a person who's in his 50s and owns a store, runs marathon and skiis 50km. Not even close to a professional athlete You just need to practice.

 

[jenaj]

A teenager who just lost her dream?

How could she realistically have had that dream? Everyone thought Valieva was a lock for gold. Was she assuming Kamila would eventually be disqualified? Other skaters have lost their dream of Olympic gold and not thrown tantrums.

 

[anonymoose_au]

I have never seen Sasha do an "artistic" performance.

I have

 

[Mathman]

5 hours, 24 minutes
2022 Australian Open – Men's singles final
Age 35

They test players, so I'm not sure where you're going with that. I'm not a fan of conspiracy theories.

To me, that's the tragedy of these doping cases. Everury time there is another instance where a super athlete failes a drug test, that makes me start looking with suspicion on any athlete that evinces preternatural strength and endurance. Look at pictures of basketball hreat Michael Jordan before and after he suddenly bulked up and becames a superman. Is there any funny business afoot? Where did Alina Zagitova get such superhuman powers of endurance and recuperation? How did Evgenia Medvedeva stay so thin?

All of these people are no doubt clean as a whistle, but the occasional drug bust casts a cloud over all sportsmen and sportswomen who excel beyond nature.

Yes, they test players. But it's a cat and mouse game between the bad guys who think up ever more devious undetectable chemicals and masking agents, and the good guys who try to catch them at it. Now one side is ahead, now the pther.

Poor Ben Johnson. He won a gold metal in the 100 meters in 1988. For one day he was a Canadian national hero. The next he was a doper from Jamaica.

 

[PullingForSasha]

The BEST coverage about this, or anything involving this, is right here. Watch and listen to what Polina Edmunds says about this. She witnessed the Russians doping when she was still a post-kid.

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[b-man]

To me, that's the tragedy of these doping cases. Everury time there is another instance where a super athlete failes a drug test, that makes me start looking with suspicion on any athlete that evinces preternatural strength and endurance. Look at pictures of basketball hreat Michael Jordan before and after he suddenly bulked up and becames a superman. Is there any funny business afoot? Where did Alina Zagitova get such superhuman powers of endurance and recuperation? How did Evgenia Medvedeva stay so thin?

All of these people are no doubt clean as a whistle, but the occasional drug bust casts a cloud over all sportsmen and sportswomen who excel beyond nature.

Yes, they test players. But it's a cat and mouse game between the bad guys who think up ever more devious undetectable chemicals and masking agents, and the good guys who try to catch them at it. Now one side is ahead, now the pther.

Poor Ben Johnson. He won a gold metal in the 100 meters in 1988. For one day he was a Canadian national hero. The next he was a doper from Jamaica.

You had me there until Ben Johnson. He passed Carl lewis like he was sitting still. He probably had more steroids than "big head" Barry Bonds. He got what he deserved.

 

[prorussian fan]

Polina and Gracie saying that the little success in their races was because they were surely competing against cheating Russians. Please, how far do you plan to go with that speech? It is just when I refer to how toxic the American press is, but what scares me the most is how it can permeate the thinking of society that unthinkingly replicates this type of speech.

 

[Allikat]

The BEST coverage about this, or anything involving this, is right here. Watch and listen to what Polina Edmunds says about this. She witnessed the Russians doping when she was still a post-kid.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

I was wondering if anybody else saw this, and if so, would mention it. For me, it was one of the most enlightening discussions on the matter I've yet seen. Polina is certainly creditable. Regardless of what you may think of TSL (I'm a fan, mainly...), they have wonderful guests on and have been providing a lot of helpful information this week which needs to be heard. So, do yourself a favor and go have a listen!

 

[prorussian fan]

I listen to Polina and I can't, really. Criticizing Sasha, Anna and Kami's skates as if she were the greatest technical expert. But when Alysa Liu was landing "quads" and 3As with such poor technique, coincidentally none of the Americans came out to criticize her, double standards. Up to here with this.

 

[melgirl25]

I don't know how people have the audacity to call what Trusova was going through a tantrum after all these kids are put through and the pressure they're in to be first by their own families and entire country and fans. Adults sitting at home comfortably. You should be ashamed. She was in distress and you lack basic empathy. I guess you never broke your bones literally or worked 12 hours a day for years while putting up with Eteri and her crew meanwhile being a child!

Valieva and Trusova looked broken and you all here judging.

I think these emotions were built up in her and came out finally at the most important competition of her life. She always seemed to take things in stride coming in 3rd or 2nd at previous competitions. I don’t personally align with her skating but you are right that she is a minor and we are not in her shoes. I have lost at times too when I “shouldn’t have”.

 

[SNAKSuyun]

Chinese here. Chinese opinion is split, with some taking the 'Russian' side and others taking the 'American' side. I guess you could say I'm on the 'American' side, although I'd like to call it the side that cares about clean training/competitions and the athletes' health, career longevity, and self-fulfillment more than quads and medal glory. Maybe you could say I prefer the human side of the sport than the competitive side of it. Anyway, I very much dislike politicizing this and turning this into a "us vs them" thing (esp on national lines), because that just means nothing will ever change while competitions will continue to be haunted by scandal after scandal until it dies. Fingers crossed that perhaps, a real solution can be proposed by more neutral parties at the ISU, or perhaps some of the smaller feds...

 

[Arigato]

I have

I'd take Plushy's Carmen over that.