- Joined
- Jan 3, 2007
Sadly I do not speak French. I'd be grateful for any new insights you gain and or any opinions.
I try to keep an open mind and get my skating news from a variety of sources.
2023-24 Grand Prix Final Senior Rhythm Dance
- Thread starter dorispulaski
- Start date
I try to keep an open mind and get my skating news from a variety of sources.
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2015
I plan to watch this before the free dance. Will share their views.
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2022
If Olympic silver medalist Ben Agosto's opinion isn't good enough for you, then I don't know what I could say.
I don't find judging in skating to be any more problematic, wrong, or incorrect than refereeing in any other sports, or at least the sports I follow. I certainly don't think Madi and Evan are medaling because they are more popular, good looking, or have better fed support. Someone will need to give me proof (not "I don't understand it so those are the only explanations I can come up with" but *proof*) that these are the the reasons.
I do think longevity is a factor, but many of the teams at this comp have been at it for quite some time.
I don't know the exact reasons. I have quite often now read people comment (maybe more on twitter and another site than here) how amazing Maddie looks etc. and basically that's why they think they deserve the scores. But overall those were just possible reasons for any overscoring and not especially meant to address this team.
Marco and Charlene had the best skate here for me, but I am not knowledgeable enough about the intricasies of ice dance judging to say they wuzrobbed. But they certainly skated their program much better than at NHK and I really enjoyed it, when they are really on, their precision and spped across the ice are really captivating for me.
Gilles/Poirier were also great, but a bit less sharp than at their best event this year (Skate Canada).
Madi and Evan looked slower in comparison to the other teams, they performed really well, but just don't see them as being 4 points better than the other top teams.
Too many nerves and twizzles mistakes by the other teams, but I still enjoyed the performances of La/La and FB/S.
Gilles/Poirier were also great, but a bit less sharp than at their best event this year (Skate Canada).
Madi and Evan looked slower in comparison to the other teams, they performed really well, but just don't see them as being 4 points better than the other top teams.
Too many nerves and twizzles mistakes by the other teams, but I still enjoyed the performances of La/La and FB/S.
- Joined
- Dec 8, 2023
Hi,
Here are some extracts from the French-Canadian comments (Alain Goldberg) about C/B
"they move very well, they dance very well, very elastic on the legs
very subtle...beautiful nuance of music ...
Is it better than the Italians? That is the question
it's very different and that's the complexity too for the judges... (a joke about)
The nuance is softness and variations
it's less speed... they mark the tempo, are with it... and they manage to put a certain flexibility (FR: souplesse)... a certain elasticity in the skating which makes the choreography very attractive...
the speed of rotation very impressive, fantastic, great performance biggest kind of variations
He is not anymore doubtful about the next ...
high quality,
He pities the judges, it’s a very subjective sport...
she moves very well, she is comfortable /at peace,"
Mr. Alain G. was sure G/P will be after the C/B and maybe even after G/F and considered that the choreography was not enough, not that interesting...
He enjoyed all the programs, did not insist a lot on errors , liked a lot La/La and FB/S but knew the error of the latest will be very costly.
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- Joined
- Aug 12, 2014
thank you for sharing this. I think, if he's talking about Chock/Bates in the first 9 lines especially, he explains better than anyone else I've seen what qualities are so great about Madison and Evan. Why the things that so many fans complain about might, shall we say, take a back seat in the minds of the judges. And certainly, IMO, in the minds of audiences.
I can only hope. It's so depressing when they decide the competition in advance and put it out of reach in the RD.
I don't think 4 points is out of reach. Especial if Piper and Paul skate clean without the small errors and loss of levels they had in the rhythm dance. Definitely not "predecided"
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2015
Someone did the translation work for me... so I won't need to do it, which is good because I am beat
thanks @skating_games
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- Mar 7, 2015
What I can add from the French CBC Commentator :
He finds Piper and Paul much more classic in style. He reacted positively about some of the quirky moves.
He adds he is not certain about where they will rank.
He said they should include much more complex steps, that their choreo is not showcasing them enough, not original enough. They could be world champions, they almost are, but they need better choreo.
About their score : he adds, this is it what I feared. The free dance will decide everything. Everything is still to do, Nothing is impossible.
I have added these comments because from listening to him usually, when it's a won battle, he is really vocal about it. Of course, he is not a dance specialist but it was interesting to hear what he had to say.
Sharing the last bits for Piper and Paul's fans Yes, 4 points is a lot of ground to make up. I don't think it's happening but who knows? I think Madi's and Evan's RD is better than their FD... so there's that 
and Piper and Paul have almost always had better FDs than RDs
He finds Piper and Paul much more classic in style. He reacted positively about some of the quirky moves.
He adds he is not certain about where they will rank.
He said they should include much more complex steps, that their choreo is not showcasing them enough, not original enough. They could be world champions, they almost are, but they need better choreo.
About their score : he adds, this is it what I feared. The free dance will decide everything. Everything is still to do, Nothing is impossible.
I have added these comments because from listening to him usually, when it's a won battle, he is really vocal about it. Of course, he is not a dance specialist but it was interesting to hear what he had to say.
Sharing the last bits for Piper and Paul's fans
Yes, 4 points is a lot of ground to make up. I don't think it's happening but who knows? I think Madi's and Evan's RD is better than their FD... so there's that and Piper and Paul have almost always had better FDs than RDs
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Realistically, 4 points in ice dance is like 20 points in singles. It's not going to happen. This competition is already over.Sharing the last bits for Piper and Paul's fans
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- Mar 7, 2015
I agree. But haven't we seen people botch twizzles and fall plenty of times
It would take a major mistake. I don't expect it will happen. Chock and Bates even fell last year and won worlds One the big obstacle though is that Piper and Paul will skate first in that second group... They would need to score very high for the judges to manage to put two teams below them
So yeah... I am not hopeful it will happen... but they could still grab silver I agree. But haven't we seen people botch twizzles and fall plenty of times
Not only won, but got season's best scores. Felt like we were back in the bad old days.
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2022
The program of C/B is much better, no doubt. I also easily give to them that they have the better lifts. Everything else - I don't see how they are better. I thought their twizzles were very good, but the Italians were even slightly better in that regard. The Italians (who have a bad program) are faster, skate bigger, cleaner, have more and more diverse one leg skating, deeper edges. That's the way I see it. Maybe have them super tight overall. But I don't see how C/B have better skating skills. I simply don't see it, so if someone could explain that. 
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
C&B move better to the music than the Italians. This is particularly important in the Rhythm Dance.
Additionally, the matter of meeting the requirements for a 1980's style dance is part of the PCS components.
Can anyone look at the G&F and say those outfits remind me of the 1980's? They don't even remind me of any 1980's movie, TV show, or band. Do any of their dance steps recall the 1980's, other than moonwalk? If your answer is no, and you are a judge, it would affect the PCS score you give.
Plus the mismatch between the couple and the "looking for a hero" concept is striking. Why they didn't do something like Top Gun or Michael Jackson where having a short guy would really help the program to connect to a 1980's concept? It is mystifying. Again, this might affect a judge's PCS marks.
G&F picked 1980's songs, but other than that, they simply did not understand the assignment.
Additionally, the matter of meeting the requirements for a 1980's style dance is part of the PCS components.
Can anyone look at the G&F and say those outfits remind me of the 1980's? They don't even remind me of any 1980's movie, TV show, or band. Do any of their dance steps recall the 1980's, other than moonwalk? If your answer is no, and you are a judge, it would affect the PCS score you give.
Plus the mismatch between the couple and the "looking for a hero" concept is striking. Why they didn't do something like Top Gun or Michael Jackson where having a short guy would really help the program to connect to a 1980's concept? It is mystifying. Again, this might affect a judge's PCS marks.
G&F picked 1980's songs, but other than that, they simply did not understand the assignment.
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2022
you could say that about a lot of teams
the problem is partly with the theme itself
what is the essence of the 80s? I watched some of the Russian dances and they are so much more 80s to me - likely because of the 80s music and style that I learned as such
the program is bad, I agree, because it's undecided
but I can't say that to me C/B (or most others) are capturing what I associate with the 80s
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- Jan 3, 2007
Merci
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
While it is best IMO if the program says 1980's to almost everyone, it isn't necessary that every particular judge recognizes the 1980's that way.
For example, Lopareva and Brissaud did 1980's in France with the famous French pop singer Mylène Farmer's "Sans contrefaçon."
A quick Google will tell you, "That works!"
Then there are all the Michael Jackson's and Madonna's
Movies like Top Gun.
etc
If G&F ever explained how that program was 1980's, it might have been convincing, but they never have told us how that hot mess is a 1980's hot mess.
For example, Lopareva and Brissaud did 1980's in France with the famous French pop singer Mylène Farmer's "Sans contrefaçon."
A quick Google will tell you, "That works!"
Then there are all the Michael Jackson's and Madonna's
Movies like Top Gun.
etc
If G&F ever explained how that program was 1980's, it might have been convincing, but they never have told us how that hot mess is a 1980's hot mess.
1980s were very different in different countries I think. I am sure that 1980s had their owns flavour in countries like Soviet Union, Japan or Korea, which would probably be a surprise to many. So, I am not really sure I understand the assignment either.
Having said this, when a 30+ woman next to a guy, who is basically her husband and as tall as she is, skates to "I need a hero", I find this music choice a bit disadvantageous for them, I think. Great skating skills, but... should they get all their choreography from Barbara, who is not an ikon of taste -- I am not sure. I think both their dances are a miss this season. I also think a unique style is lacking with this team. The only dance I remember from them is the "Attonement", even that dance draw my attention because I was wondering whether Charlene will try to replicate the green dress, and she didn't.
Having said this, when a 30+ woman next to a guy, who is basically her husband and as tall as she is, skates to "I need a hero", I find this music choice a bit disadvantageous for them, I think. Great skating skills, but... should they get all their choreography from Barbara, who is not an ikon of taste -- I am not sure. I think both their dances are a miss this season. I also think a unique style is lacking with this team. The only dance I remember from them is the "Attonement", even that dance draw my attention because I was wondering whether Charlene will try to replicate the green dress, and she didn't.
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