2024 Europeans Entries | Page 4 | Golden Skate

2024 Europeans Entries

I hope that Matteo 🇮🇹 and Deniss 🇱🇻 have a great competition!

3 British, 3 French and 3 Italian ice dance teams! What a treat :hap10:

I just found out on twitter that Val/Kazimov are coached by Hurtado/Khaliavin. No wonder there are various conspiracy theories flying around! I do think that comparing scores at senior B competitions vs grand prix events is harsh, also using just TES is a bit flawed for ice dance, where PCS is a massive part of the scoring. It would have been nice to see Smart/Dieck at euros with Val/Kazimov to Worlds.
Hopefully this result fuels them as motivation for their future career together!
 
FlossieH said:
I'm confused at why Switzerland only have one spot for men? Lukas Britschgi placed 3rd last year as their only entry and I thought that would have given them two spots? I was expecting either Naoki Rossi or Noah Bodenstein to go as well, as both have the technical minimums.
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Naoki withdrew from Nationals, presumably due to health reasons which probably kept him from getting that second Euros spot, and Noah had a really rough FS at Nationals, lots of falls and pops. Probably better to not send him to Euros either, if he's not in good form.

Would have loved to see either of them, but I can understand why the Swiss fed would choose not to send them.
 
FlossieH said:
I'm confused at why Switzerland only have one spot for men? Lukas Britschgi placed 3rd last year as their only entry and I thought that would have given them two spots? I was expecting either Naoki Rossi or Noah Bodenstein to go as well, as both have the technical minimums.
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Britschi could finish 2nd this season, and they'll have 3 spots next year.
 
Sorry for still bringing up Spains selection, but Smart/Diecks was even surprised by this decision:


Also, for those who believe that it really doesn´t matter who they send regarding spots for the next season, Smart/Dieck has the 9th best season best and 10th ISU best of the teams. Val/Kazimov nr. 16.

 
Maybe it is because I have been sick for the past 3 weeks and can't be bothered with the arguing today (or anything, really. I can't even be bothered doing my Predictions for Japan and Russia :drama: ). But I'm getting tired hearing about the Spanish Ice Dancers.

Like, it's not as if it is the only case where the newly crowned National Champion isn't going to Euros. The host country are even doing it! The new Senior Ladies Champion (Meda VARIAKOJYTE) is the second alternate, behind the skaters that finished 2nd (Aleksandra GOLOVKINA) and 3rd (Jogailė AGLINSKYTĖ) in Nationals.

There has been nothing separating Aleksandra and Meda all season. Having been Aleksandra's main competition for many years, Jogailė has been scoring considerably lower for the past 2 seasons.

However, whereas Meda has the Minimums for Europeans and Junior and Senior Worlds, Aleksandra and Jogailė only have the Minimums for Europeans. So, because Meda is the only skater than can be selected for Senior Worlds, the other two were placed ahead of her for Europeans so that one of them could get an outing on the big stage this season.

That's the situation in terms of numbers. But, I think the real reason is more meaningful.

I have a suspicion that Aleksandra is planning to retire, and that everybody involved agreed that Europeans in her home country would be a fitting place for her to have her swansong. Just like with Jenni Saarinen at the Espoo GP last year.

That's just my theory. But, it does seem plausible. Even if I don't want to think about the possibility of her retiring.

CaroLiza_fan
 
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CaroLiza_fan said:
Maybe it is because I have been sick for the past 3 weeks and can't be bothered with the arguing today (or anything, really. I can't even be bothered doing my Predictions for Japan and Russia :drama: ). But I'm getting tired hearing about the Spanish Ice Dancers.

Like, it's not as if it is the only case where the newly crowned National Champion isn't going to Euros. The host country are even doing it! The new Senior Ladies Champion (Meda VARIAKOJYTE) is the second alternate, behind the skaters that finished 2nd (Aleksandra GOLOVKINA) and 3rd (Jogailė AGLINSKYTĖ) in Nationals.

There has been nothing separating Aleksandra and Meda all season. Having been Aleksandra's main competition for many years, Jogailė has been scoring considerably lower for the past 2 seasons.

However, whereas Meda has the Minimums for Europeans and Junior and Senior Worlds, Aleksandra and Jogailė only have the Minimums for Europeans. So, because Meda is the only skater than can be selected for Senior Worlds, the other two were placed ahead of her for Europeans so that one of them could get an outing on the big stage this season.

That's the situation in terms of numbers. But, I think the real reason is more meaningful.

I have a suspicion that Aleksandra is planning to retire, and that everybody involved agreed that Europeans in her home country would be a fitting place for her to have her swansong. Just like with Jenni Saarinen at the Espoo GP last year.

That's just my theory. But, it does seem plausible. Even if I don't want to think about the possibility of her retiring.

CaroLiza_fan
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Apples and oranges. There are many national champions who do not get selected for a bunch of different reasons including age eligibility and TES minimums etc.

This case is very different. Smart and Dieck were part of the elite in ice dance with their previous partners. They are the best shot for Spain at this moment to gain spots for their two competitive teams which is so important with Olympics in a couple years from now. Fans are reacting very normally to this weird decision because Spain had exactly the same issue in previous years when Smart and DIaz and Hurtado Khaliavin had to fight for the lone spot at worlds or olympics etc. Fans know Smart and Dieck. They competed on the GP circuit. They are previous olympians with their former partners. I have never heard about any of the Lithuanian skaters you are refering to and I follow a lot of figure skating. Internal competition is not the same as international competition. I understand you are invested in smaller events and younger skaters but that's just not the case for many.

Finally, I have seen Smart and Dieck live. Early stages of development for them (in the late summer/early fall) I am not a fan. But I still know who they are and was surprised with the decision. Smart herself is surprised with this decision.

Final finally, sometimes, a decision can be a toss up. I imagine here that if Smart and Dieck had been selected, there wouldn't have been such an uproar online... Fans would have been sad for V/K but the common word would have been, let's hope that Smart and Dieck earn a second spot for their teammates next year.... Apples and oranges.
 
4everchan said:
Apples and oranges. There are many national champions who do not get selected for a bunch of different reasons including age eligibility and TES minimums etc.

This case is very different. Smart and Dieck were part of the elite in ice dance with their previous partners. They are the best shot for Spain at this moment to gain spots for their two competitive teams which is so important with Olympics in a couple years from now. Fans are reacting very normally to this weird decision because Spain had exactly the same issue in previous years when Smart and DIaz and Hurtado Khaliavin had to fight for the lone spot at worlds or olympics etc. Fans know Smart and Dieck. They competed on the GP circuit. They are previous olympians with their former partners. I have never heard about any of the Lithuanian skaters you are refering to and I follow a lot of figure skating. Internal competition is not the same as international competition. I understand you are invested in smaller events and younger skaters but that's just not the case for many.

Finally, I have seen Smart and Dieck live. Early stages of development for them (in the late summer/early fall) I am not a fan. But I still know who they are and was surprised with the decision. Smart herself is surprised with this decision.

Final finally, sometimes, a decision can be a toss up. I imagine here that if Smart and Dieck had been selected, there wouldn't have been such an uproar online... Fans would have been sad for V/K but the common word would have been, let's hope that Smart and Dieck earn a second spot for their teammates next year.... Apples and oranges.
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Not sure Dieck was considered in the elite category with Katarina..?. Nott sure he medaled at grand prix . Maybe I am wrong.
 
4everchan said:
Apples and oranges. There are many national champions who do not get selected for a bunch of different reasons including age eligibility and TES minimums etc.

This case is very different. Smart and Dieck were part of the elite in ice dance with their previous partners. They are the best shot for Spain at this moment to gain spots for their two competitive teams which is so important with Olympics in a couple years from now. Fans are reacting very normally to this weird decision because Spain had exactly the same issue in previous years when Smart and DIaz and Hurtado Khaliavin had to fight for the lone spot at worlds or olympics etc. Fans know Smart and Dieck. They competed on the GP circuit. They are previous olympians with their former partners. I have never heard about any of the Lithuanian skaters you are refering to and I follow a lot of figure skating. Internal competition is not the same as international competition. I understand you are invested in smaller events and younger skaters but that's just not the case for many.

Finally, I have seen Smart and Dieck live. Early stages of development for them (in the late summer/early fall) I am not a fan. But I still know who they are and was surprised with the decision. Smart herself is surprised with this decision.

Final finally, sometimes, a decision can be a toss up. I imagine here that if Smart and Dieck had been selected, there wouldn't have been such an uproar online... Fans would have been sad for V/K but the common word would have been, let's hope that Smart and Dieck earn a second spot for their teammates next year.... Apples and oranges.
Click to expand...

I burst out laughing when you said "apples and oranges". Don't worry, nobody from outside Northern Ireland would understand the significance. It's to do with a clip that was shown on the local news 18 years ago, and which has become an infamous part of local folklore.

Anyway, I'm just pointing out the double standards in some of the arguments that people have been coming out with about this. You would think that nobody had ever not selected the newly crowned champion to go to the majors before the way some people are going on.

I didn't watch any of the Senior GP's this season (I was concentrating on the Senior B's), so I hadn't seen Smart / Dieck until this week. And knowing what they were like with their previous partners, I was expecting them to be great. But they weren't. Like you, I didn't like either programme.

Of course, unlike you, I haven't seen them live. And there is a big diffference between seeing something in person and seeing it on a screen. But, going by what I saw of their performances at the Spanish Championships, I think those people that are expecting Smart / Dieck to earn Spain a second slot without any bother are in for a shock. I don't know if it is the programmes or if it was because they are new together, but I just don't think what I saw is good enough to do it.

On the other hand, I have seen most of the appearances from Val / Kazimov this season (on a screen). And I have been so impressed. I have to be honest, I hadn't heard tell of Kazimov until he teamed up with Val. I was more familiar with her, because her two previous partners were guys I had adopted when they were Singles skaters. And although I wouldn't go as far as to say that I like her (I cannot relate to her at all), all her partnerships have impressed me.

I am puzzled by your argument that Smart / Dieck should be sent because people are more familiar with them. Knowing somebody doesn't necessarily mean they are better than somebody you don't know as well. And going to the Olympics doesn't mean you are better either. There are plenty of skaters that haven't gone to the Olympics that are far better than ones that have. As you know, the way the Olympic slots work is one of the many reasons that I cannot take the Olympics seriously.

All that said, I do not agree with Val / Kazimov getting both assignments. The Spanish Fed should have split the assignments, like they used to do when they had Hurtado / Khaliavin and Smart / Díaz. It should have been Val /Kazimov going to Europeans, and Smart / Dieck going to Worlds. Apart from anything else, sending Smark / Dieck to Worlds would save a lot of money, as they are already based in Montréal.

CaroLiza_fan
 
I think Smart and Dieck could have scraped into the top 10 at Euros. It will be more difficult for Val/Kazimov to do so because they tend to have lower PCS. Most of the teams around the top 10 are likely to have similar technical elements, and GOE and PCS will therefore be more influential than in some of the lower level international competitions. Getting into the top 10 at Worlds might not be realistic for either pair this year. On that basis, I would probably have sent Smart and Dieck to Euros and Val and Kazimov to Worlds.

The 2025 Worlds are the ones that matter for the olympics. If they have one team there and it places top 10 then they get two spots at the olympics. With two teams, they both have to place fairly well to get two spots e.g. one team competing and placing 10th would be enough, but with two teams they would need the placements added together to be 28 or less (e.g. a 10th and an 18th, or 13th and 15th). I suspect that they will need to try to get a second olympic spot via whichever challenger competition acts as the final qualifier regardless of whether they have two spots at next year's worlds.
 
CaroLiza_fan said:
But, going by what I saw of their performances at the Spanish Championships, I think those people that are expecting Smart / Dieck to earn Spain a second slot without any bother are in for a shock. I don't know if it is the programmes or if it was because they are new together, but I just don't think what I saw is good enough to do it.
Click to expand...
S/D would have had the 9th-highest SB of the teams at Euros, and the 12th-highest mean score, less than a point behind 9th. Would a 10th-place finish have been a guarantee? No, of course not, nothing is ever guaranteed, but it would have very much been within their reach.
 
skatingguy said:
Britschi could finish 2nd this season, and they'll have 3 spots next year.
Click to expand...
Interesting strategy, it could work out for next season!

I have wondered, as it would be hard for Italy and GB to keep 3 spots in ice dance next year, would they consider only sending their highest ranking team to try and get 3 spots for the following year? Risky, but then they are unlikely to go down to a single spot unless they drop out of the top 10.
 
Dreamer57 said:
Interesting strategy, it could work out for next season!

I have wondered, as it would be hard for Italy and GB to keep 3 spots in ice dance next year, would they consider only sending their highest ranking team to try and get 3 spots for the following year? Risky, but then they are unlikely to go down to a single spot unless they drop out of the top 10.
Click to expand...
No. Bekker and Hernadez are in their first senior season and need to get as much experience as possible. They were in the Junior grad prix final last year and have the potential to develop into top seniors. Both they and Fear and Gibson have the potential to do well at the next olympics, but that is dependent on Bekker and Hernandez getting plenty of experience in senior competitions. Our third team (who are a new team) are also progressing nicely but need to gain as much competition experience as possible.
 
I understand people's anger with the S/D and V/K decision, but they might be giving time for S/D to work out some technical issues and reward a team that has made great strieds. In my opinion, it wouldn't have been likely for S/D to place top 10 in Euros bc they have been on a downward trend since SkAm and i think a little downtime to train would do good for them. Also, in terms of development, V/K train in Madrid sop it could encourage more people locally to try ice dance (even though Kazimov is russian i think it could still help).
 
CaroLiza_fan said:
I am puzzled by your argument that Smart / Dieck should be sent because people are more familiar with them. Knowing somebody doesn't necessarily mean they are better than somebody you don't know as well. And going to the Olympics doesn't mean you are better either. There are plenty of skaters that haven't gone to the Olympics that are far better than ones that have. As you know, the way the Olympic slots work is one of the many reasons that I cannot take the Olympics seriously.
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My argument is not that better known people should be sent.. but that when better known athletes are not sent, there is usually an uproar.
CaroLiza_fan said:
All that said, I do not agree with Val / Kazimov getting both assignments. The Spanish Fed should have split the assignments, like they used to do when they had Hurtado / Khaliavin and Smart / Díaz. It should have been Val /Kazimov going to Europeans, and Smart / Dieck going to Worlds. Apart from anything else, sending Smark / Dieck to Worlds would save a lot of money, as they are already based in Montréal.

CaroLiza_fan
Click to expand...
i agree with this : split the assignments.


Finally, it takes time for a new team to get in synch, I suspect that by march, Smart Dieck would be a completely different team than the one that completed in the early fall... I am not sure VK can have such an upward trajectory but who knows?
 
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bgg said:
Not sure Dieck was considered in the elite category with Katarina..?. Nott sure he medaled at grand prix . Maybe I am wrong.
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Top 12 at Euros is pretty good. Olympian too. No medals at GP no. but some podiums in challenger events..

Last Euros for Smart and Dieck with former partners.


RankNameNationPointsRDFD
1Victoria SINITSINA / Nikita KATSALAPOVRUS217.9611
2Alexandra STEPANOVA / Ivan BUKINRUS213.2022
3Charlene GUIGNARD / Marco FABBRIITA207.9733
4Olivia SMART / Adrian DIAZESP196.8654
5Lilah FEAR / Lewis GIBSONGBR196.0146
6Sara HURTADO / Kirill KHALIAVINESP191.9065
7Diana DAVIS / Gleb SMOLKINRUS186.6187
8Allison REED / Saulius AMBRULEVICIUSLTU183.1778
9Evgeniia LOPAREVA / Geoffrey BRISSAUDFRA178.34109
10Oleksandra NAZAROVA / Maksym NIKITINUKR173.991210
11Natalie TASCHLEROVA / Filip TASCHLERCZE172.391113
12Katharina MUELLER / Tim DIECKGER170.271312
13Tina GARABEDIAN / Simon PROULX SENECALARM168.431411
14Natalia KALISZEK / Maksym SPODYRIEVPOL166.52916
15Sasha FEAR / George WADDELLGBR163.211614
16Loicia DEMOUGEOT / Theo LE MERCIERFRA162.771515
17Mariia HOLUBTSOVA / Kyryl BIELOBROVUKR156.351717
18Mariia IGNATEVA / Danijil Leonyidovics SZEMKOHUN150.831918
19Jasmine TESSARI / Stephane WALKERSUI147.551819
20Solene MAZINGUE / Marko Jevgeni GAIDAJENKOEST143.892020
 
I want to convince myself that Smart/Dieck is a top I/D team but I just don't see it. The glaring difference in their basics alone shows that he has sooo much catching up to do. I feel like they are pretty much riding on her reputation at the moment. They are a new pair so connection is not there but even their potential ceiling is not high. But then I watch V/K and they are even a weaker team atm. Sure they are younger so maybe Spanish Fed thinks they have a higher potential ceiling than S/D but they are not there yet. Spanish Fed should have waited for V/K result at Euros then decide who goes to worlds.

Do you guys know how easy it is for Dieck to obtain the Spanish citizenship? that maybe a factor too for propping up V/K
 
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