2025 GP de France | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Replay Lounge 2025 GP de France

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I woke up at almost at the end of the RD. So, I haven't watched it all yet.

BUT. when I saw the scoresheets.
OMG.

That's all I will say until I watch it later.
 
Well, when in women Nakai didn't go for second 3A in a combo and I sighed that she's not Kostornaya yet, I then sighed even deeper for the times when it looked like Kostornaya only had two 3As to rely on versus a heavier TES. I am glad women with ultra c got on the podium ahead of the lower tech ones, but overall... yeah, I miss the times when Kostornaya 'only' had two 3As. Those were good times...
 
Well, it looks like we have a new Olympic favourite. Sakamoto couldn't have done much more, judges weren't harsh or anything, and still came up short to Nakai.

Brilliant GP debut for Nakai, especially with the pressure of the facing the 3 time world champion. Talk about intimidation.

Sumiyoshi was great too.

Levito was a long way away, I was surprised they didn't hit her with an underrotation on the 2T in that 3 jump combo, and got great GOE too. I'm completely baffled that they could miss that. I would have had Schild ahead in the free skate -- who had the skate of her life.

It seems this is the Japanese era. Total dominance.
 
noskates said:
I don't know if this is appropriate for this thread or not but was anyone else shaking their head and rolling their eyes at Meghan Duhamel chomping on gum in the kiss & cry? (n)
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Didn’t notice BUT gum chomping anywhere is discussing
 
Mathman said:
No problem. Nakai did a triple Axel in the LP (not as fine a one as in the SP), and outpointed her nearest rival by 10 points in base value.

Ladies, take note.
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It wasn't even a great 3A. Life sucks.
 
4everchan said:
oh well.. speak thy mind, friend. Ilia has a lot of qualities on the ice and I have no issues at all with him being a world champion. I stood up for his performance in Montreal in 2024.
But, he is no Patrick Chan and will never be.

My issue is not that he isn't really. It's that some commentators or fans see things that are not there. Ilia doesn't need to become a great artist. We don't need to pretend that he is. He has all the tools he needs to win what he wants to win, except my heart as a fan. And that's fine. He has plenty of fans and he doesn't need me. But to say that he has improved tons in that department is just unfair to the skaters who really have honed that part of skating.

Just my opinion.
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Adding to this excellent piece of opinion. I may add things later, but because I'm sleep deprived a relatively short rant for now:

Figure skating is half sport, half art. Most fans will enjoy watching FS because it is both, although some may value one side over the other. But since artistic taste can differ wildly while scoring should have (mostly) objective criteria, it is inevitable that the technical elements will factor in much more when deciding the scores. So it is definitely possible for a skater with extremely strong tech, as Ilia Malinin is, to get huge scores and win competitions left and right (provided that the tech was delivered) even if they are not the best artistic performer. That is a 100% legit way to win competitions, and although that makes those (like me) who love the ones with more artistic merit and less tech sad we will not say that, to keep using Malinin as an example, his win was not deserved. That would be just wrong.

However, many others including Malinin, are spectacular on a technical aspect while lacking in artistry. Again, artistry is subjective and if the ones I consider to have a far way to go regarding their artistic side touch your heart and 100% suit your aesthetic tastes, the skater(s) in question will be strong artistic performers to you. I do not have the right to deny that, nor do I want to. But there is such a thing as consensus among fans, and if not a few people consider Malinin (or others in the similar vein) underdeveloped regarding artistry, then those critiques are going to be valid. Thus the argument that Malinin is a strong technician but a weak artistic performer stands, even if those who love him may disagree. And this line of thought continues when discussing his artistic improvements: he might've worked on it on his standpoint, sure, but I doubt it's going to be a major improvement when the consensus is not convinced of it being so. Maybe to a Malinin fan Malinin's performance skills are better than those of Patrick Chan, Jason Brown, Hanyu Yuzuru, Uno Shoma, my darling Cha Junhwan, etc., and they have the right to consider it so, but they cannot expect every other fan to agree and honestly I don't think they do. Thus the arguement is mostly that he has improved, but as mentioned above, others can and for a lot of times will disagree.

From what I've seen, I'm not in the minority when I consider Malinin's artistic side to be on the weaker side even with improvements. He will still win things with his technical prowess, because that's how the system is. However, since FS is half art as well, many people expect and want the winners to be artistically developed as well, and those (including myself) will be disappointed in that regard even when not denying that he rightfully won. And I think that those who love him are either 1)truly enamored with his skating and think his skating is already artistically developed or 2)recognize that his artistic side is (at least for the moment) lacking yet love him enough to overlook and/or defend that deficiency, and that's how the arguments going "Malinin is not only strong in tech but artistry as well" arise.

For those in the first category, your tastes and aesthetic values are valid to you, nobody is saying you can't feel that way. However many people don't, and just as we cannot change your tastes you cannot convince us that Malinin is a great artist, since to us he is not. For the latter category, winning based on tech is a valid way to win, you can just celebrate his achievements in that department without needing to convince others that he is a much better artist now and that is part of the reason why he won. That is not going to be true for a lot of people. He won by his tech, which is fair, but he did not win their hearts, which is also fair.

I don't take that much issue with Malinin's fans defending their favorite's artistry, either because they genuinely think it so or because they want others who do not enjoy his skating to change their minds because seeing one's favorite not being loved is not pleasant to the fan. However, it becomes an issue when the rhetoric is taken up by the commentators, as commentators are mostly considered to be unbiased and knoweldgeable people (although we know that in many cases they are not) and thus their words have weight. If Malinin is spoken of as having the same level of artistry as others who are considered by the consensus to be artistically much better, it will have effect on people and that is being unfair to the others who worked on their artistry and truly put out something beautiful. And artistry is devalued when regarding scores already without the added insult.

I intentionally did not mention the technical side of PCS such as skating skills because they aren't subjective yet are grouped with the subjective scores such as presentation, and thus complicates the discussion. Also, while having good skating skills will definitely help with the presentation and overall artistic impression, but skating skills do not equate to artistry. Some are less skilled with the blade yet have charm and flair, while others skate as if they're not wearing skates on a sheet of ice yet do not pull at the heartstrings. So I stuck to what is purely subjective to discuss the matter at hand.

To summarize this wall of text: if you find Malinin's artistry to be great, I respect that but I will not agree with you and I probably won't be the only one, and if you acknowledge that his artistry is underdeveloped as of this moment, you don't have to claim otherwise to either justify his placement (TES based placements are very much valid) or to convince people to soften up to your favorite (even widely acknowledged artistic skaters have folks who don't consider their skating to be their cup of tea, it's just a matter of agreeing to disagree and moving on).

One last thing: I'm writing this because I have a bad memory of being considered a terrible person just because I kept mentioning the fact that a certain skater's skating was not good enough for me to love them, I was considered a hater even when I repeatedly clarified that I have neither qualms with other people liking their skating and saying so nor actual ill will towards the skater as a person. This is on the verge of becoming the 'can you separate the art from the artist' argument but what I'm trying to say is that I have no ill will towards Ilia Malinin and his fans, he is rightfully the leading contender going into the Olympics based on his stellar tech, I just want to express my opinion that his artistry is not up to par to my eyes and I have the right to not be convinced otherwise. If my opinion gives you displeasure please just click the ignore button after my username.
 
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OK, they hast showed the ladies on network TV in the U.S. Wow, go Ami!

The announcers emphasized the point that this was her first senior Grand Prix event ever. How often has this happened?
 
Skating91 said:
Well, it looks like we have a new Olympic favourite. Sakamoto couldn't have done much more, judges weren't harsh or anything, and still came up short to Nakai.

Brilliant GP debut for Nakai, especially with the pressure of the facing the 3 time world champion. Talk about intimidation.

Sumiyoshi was great too.

Levito was a long way away, I was surprised they didn't hit her with an underrotation on the 2T in that 3 jump combo, and got great GOE too. I'm completely baffled that they could miss that. I would have had Schild ahead in the free skate -- who had the skate of her life.

It seems this is the Japanese era. Total dominance.
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As a long time fan of figure skating over 60 years yes we are definitely in the era what I call "power skating" which the Japanese skaters have in abundance. I love Isabeau but she is what I call an "ethereal " skater in the mold of a Peggy Fleming or Michelle Kwan,lovely to look at unless they make major mistakes don't see her on the podium at the Olympics.
 
I'm catching up on the RD now (may not end up watching it all at once) after seeing the scores and going :jaw:

Fournier-Beaudry/Sorensen: Changing to Vogue was the right decision. I'm immediately struck by how much more confident Laurence looks compared to French Masters, in fact I think she's outshining Guillaume now, performance-wise. I could not take my eyes off her... but they do not feel like a "team" yet, merely two very good skaters sharing ice. Notably, Guillaume stumbles toward the end... was that reflected in the scores? It doesn't seem like it.

LaGouge/Caffa: Really interesting to have these back to back, because they have very similar material and while LG/C lack in skating skills compared to the previous team, they have a connection with each other that was sorely lacking in FB/C's program, and the best parts of their choreography emphasizes them as a pair. Flagged a little in energy toward the end but really liked the opening.

Bratti/Somerville: another Vogue already? Lol. They're not as comfortable with sharp movements as the previous two teams, but the strongest lift and connection. Another stumble, and a very awkward bit of choreo toward the end that apparently cost them more than Cizeron's... Unfortunately, this material does not suit them at all. I know they're getting a later start to the season than they want, but it just feels like a bad fit for their strengths.

Pate/Bye: I think I said semi-recently that this team has never stood out to me, so I am really pleasantly surprised to say this is easily my favorite program of the event so far! I never would have guessed that Eva and Logan could rock out like this, but damn if they didn't :rock: Really can't think of much to critique here, breath of fresh air and it went by(e) in a flash for me.

Fradji/Fourneaux: hold up WTF is he wearing? WTF is she wearing?? What do they have to do with each other? Putting aside questionable sartorial decisions, thank you for picking different music. Oh dear, twizzle mishap! Yeah, the growing pains from junior to senior are definitely evident here, though they've got a solid foundation to build on for the future. Just a little undercooked overall, may get stronger as the season goes on.
 
Ichatdelune said:
Adding to this excellent piece of opinion. I may add things later, but because I'm sleep deprived a relatively short rant for now:

Figure skating is half sport, half art. Most fans will enjoy watching FS because it is both, although some may value one side over the other. But since artistic taste can differ wildly while scoring should have (mostly) objective criteria, it is inevitable that the technical elements will factor in much more when deciding the scores. So it is definitely possible for a skater with extremely strong tech, as Ilia Malinin is, to get huge scores and win competitions left and right (provided that the tech was delivered) even if they are not the best artistic performer. That is a 100% legit way to win competitions, and although that make those (like me) who love the ones with more artistic merit and less tech sad we will not say that, to keep using Malinin as an example, his win was not deserved. That would be just wrong.

However, many others including Malinin, are spectacular on a technical aspect while lacking in artistry. Again, artistry is subjective and if the ones I consider to have a far way to go regarding their artistic side touch your heart and 100% suit your aesthetic tastes, the skater(s) in question will be strong artistic performers to you. I do not have the right to deny that, nor do I want to. But there is such a thing as consensus among fans, and if not a few people consider Malinin (or others in the similar vein) underdeveloped regarding artistry, then those critiques are going to be valid. Thus the argument that Malinin is a strong technician but a weak artistic performer stands, even if those who love him may disagree. And this line of thought continues when discussing his artistic improvements: he might've worked on it on his standpoint, sure, but I doubt it's going to be a major improvement when the consensus is not convinced of it being so. Maybe to a Malinin fan Malinin's performance skills are better than those of Patrick Chan, Jason Brown, Hanyu Yuzuru, Uno Shoma, my darling Cha Junhwan, etc., and they have the right to consider it so, but they cannot expect every other fan to agree and honestly I don't think they do. Thus the arguement is mostly that he has improved, but as mentioned above, others can and for a lot of times will disagree.

From what I've seen, I'm not in the minority when I consider Malinin's artistic side to be on the weaker side even with improvements. He will still win things with his technical prowess, because that's how the system is. However, since FS is half art as well, many people expect and want the winners to be artistically developed as well, and those (including myself) will be disappointed in that regard even when not denying that he rightfully won. And I think that those who love him are either 1)truly enamored with his skating and think his skating is already artistically developed or 2)recognize that his artistic side is (at least for the moment) lacking yet love him enough to overlook and/or defend that deficiency, and that's how the arguments going "Malinin is not only strong in tech but artistry as well" arise.

For those in the first category, your tastes and aesthetic values are valid to you, nobody is saying you can't feel that way. However many people don't, and just as we cannot change your tastes you cannot convince us that Malinin is a great artist, since to us he is not. For the latter category, winning based on tech is a valid way to win, you can just celebrate his achievements in that department without needing to convince others that he is a much better artist now and that is part of the reason why he won. That is not going to be true for a lot of people. He won by his tech, which is fair, but he did not win their hearts, which is also fair.

I don't take that much issue with Malinin's fans defending their favorite's artistry, either because they genuinely think it so or because they want others who do not enjoy his skating to change their minds because seeing one's favorite not being loved is not pleasant to the fan. However, it becomes an issue when the rhetoric is taken up by the commentators, as commentators are mostly considered to be unbiased and knoweldgeable people (although we know that in many cases they are not) and thus their words have weight. If Malinin is spoken of as having the same level of artistry as others who are considered by the consensus to be artistically much better, it will have effect on people and that is being unfair to the others who worked on their artistry and truly put out something beautiful. And artistry is devalued when regarding scores already without the added insult.

I intentionally did not mention the technical side of PCS such as skating skills because they aren't subjective yet are grouped with the subjective scores such as presentation, and thus complicates the discussion. Also, while having good skating skills will definitely help with the presentation and overall artistic impression, but skating skills do not equate to artistry. Some are less skilled with the blade yet have charm and flair, while others skate as if they're not wearing skates on a sheet of ice yet do not pull at the heartstrings. So I stuck to what is purely subjective to discuss the matter at hand.

To summarize this wall of text: if you find Malinin's artistry to be great, I respect that but I will not agree with you and I probably won't be the only one, and if you acknowledge that his artistry is underdeveloped as of this moment, you don't have to claim otherwise to either justify his placement (TES based placements are very much valid) or to convince people to soften up to your favorite (even widely acknowledged artistic skaters have folks who don't consider their skating to be their cup of tea, it's just a matter of agreeing to disagree and moving on).

One last thing: I'm writing this because I have a bad memory of being considered a terrible person just because I kept mentioning the fact that a certain skater's skating was not good enough for me to love them, I was considered a hater even when I repeatedly clarified that I have neither qualms with other people liking their skating and saying so nor actual ill will towards the skater as a person. This is on the verge of becoming the 'can you separate the art from the artist' argument but what I'm trying to say is that I have no ill will towards Ilia Malinin and his fans, he is rightfully the leading contender going into the Olympics based on his stellar tech, I just want to express my opinion that his artistry is not up to par to my eyes and I have the right to not be convinced otherwise. If my opinion gives you displeasure please just click the ignore button after my username.
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Ehhh, TPTB did the same Emperor's New Artistry with his predecessor and it worked (at least medal-wise) so why not do it again? They want someone to be an American Superstar and make it huge there again, and it's their only stab (no more likely to work than his predecessor, but does anyone expect TPTB to learn?) so they will keep telling everyone how he's the greatest ever at everything and the Ronaldo of skating.

I just watch the skaters who are actually interesting and leave the judging bias where it lies.
 
Lauriault/Le Gac: I do not like upside-down lifts, they stress me out. Points for using different Prince songs, but... idk, this didn't particularly thrill me? Technically, it looks to me like this is another team that should have passed F-B/S, but I wasn't super engaged or bothered either way. A perfectly fine skate.

Davis/Smolkin: WTF WTF WTF

tumblr_n1wwgd1ZsY1tr6ni8o1_500.gif


I... I gotta tap out for a while, I've got nothing. WHO THOUGHT THAT PROGRAM WAS A GOOD IDEA.
 
Lamente Ariane said:
Lauriault/Le Gac: I do not like upside-down lifts, they stress me out. Points for using different Prince songs, but... idk, this didn't particularly thrill me? Technically, it looks to me like this is another team that should have passed F-B/S, but I wasn't super engaged or bothered either way. A perfectly fine skate.

Davis/Smolkin: WTF WTF WTF

tumblr_n1wwgd1ZsY1tr6ni8o1_500.gif


I... I gotta tap out for a while, I've got nothing. WHO THOUGHT THAT PROGRAM WAS A GOOD IDEA.
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I was rooting for them, basically because I don't like anyone else here. Sad to see their placement.
 
Lamente Ariane said:
I'm catching up on the RD now (may not end up watching it all at once) after seeing the scores and going :jaw:

Fournier-Beaudry/Sorensen: Changing to Vogue was the right decision. I'm immediately struck by how much more confident Laurence looks compared to French Masters, in fact I think she's outshining Guillaume now, performance-wise. I could not take my eyes off her... but they do not feel like a "team" yet, merely two very good skaters sharing ice. Notably, Guillaume stumbles toward the end... was that reflected in the scores? It doesn't seem like it.
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Oh yeah it was.... they only scored less than a point on the characteristic steps and top teams can earn about 8 points... can you imagine the huge score they would have had ???? for that program ?

Lamente Ariane said:
LaGouge/Caffa: Really interesting to have these back to back, because they have very similar material and while LG/C lack in skating skills compared to the previous team, they have a connection with each other that was sorely lacking in FB/C's program, and the best parts of their choreography emphasizes them as a pair. Flagged a little in energy toward the end but really liked the opening.

Bratti/Somerville: another Vogue already? Lol. They're not as comfortable with sharp movements as the previous two teams, but the strongest lift and connection. Another stumble, and a very awkward bit of choreo toward the end that apparently cost them more than Cizeron's... Unfortunately, this material does not suit them at all. I know they're getting a later start to the season than they want, but it just feels like a bad fit for their strengths.

Pate/Bye: I think I said semi-recently that this team has never stood out to me, so I am really pleasantly surprised to say this is easily my favorite program of the event so far! I never would have guessed that Eva and Logan could rock out like this, but damn if they didn't :rock: Really can't think of much to critique here, breath of fresh air and it went by(e) in a flash for me.

Fradji/Fourneaux: hold up WTF is he wearing? WTF is she wearing?? What do they have to do with each other? Putting aside questionable sartorial decisions, thank you for picking different music. Oh dear, twizzle mishap! Yeah, the growing pains from junior to senior are definitely evident here, though they've got a solid foundation to build on for the future. Just a little undercooked overall, may get stronger as the season goes on.
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