2025 GP Finlandia Trophy Free Dance

[discodisco]

What?! Laurence and Guillaume won?!

Sorry, but that did not do it for me. At all.

There again, neither does Olivia and Tim with an "E"'s "Dune" programme that everybody seems to love.

Piper & Paul and Emilea & Vadym both had far better Free Dance programmes. And they should have been on the top two steps.

I am becoming seriously disllusioned with all the politics of Ice Dance.

CaroLiza_fan

I'm Canadian and I love Paul and piper... but making the claim that the other teams both had far better free dance programs without any explanation justification isn't particularly convincing. What was it that made their program subpar? To me it looks like Piper and Paul had far more progressives and Basic 2 ft side by side parallel skating, that is much close holes in interweaving between the skaters. I felt that the French also skated very close together, and that their skating skills and posture were great. I thought their ice coverage was fantastic, and their speed looks great considering how complex and intertwined their movements were. I love the Vincent program, but it felt empty in places, and I felt it looked at times as if Piper and Paul were thinking too much through it. So I understand that people can have different perspectives and preferences, but I'm just wondering why you think that the other two programs were far superior? I actually love the Young Americans skating and programs as well - lots of energy lots of speed, great conditioning, and a lot of strong expression as well. But to me the French were on a different level,, and in a way that pains me to say, because I really wanted Piper and Paul to finally take the top spot at a major International, particularly given that they were so unlucky a couple years ago when they looked poised to finally do it before Piper had to have surgery

 

[discodisco]

Not all calls are unfair... certainly not this one.

Did you time it?

 

[discodisco]

My unpopular opinion:
Piper and Paul were sublime. Spellbinding even. Incredible artistry.

But their skating was slower, on weaker edges and had less ice coverage than that of Z/K and FB/C. The artistry balances out for me to pur them ahead of Z/K (closely), but this isn't the quality of skating I'm used to seeing from piper and Paul, and FB/C did enough on that front to command the win.

Putting piper and Paul 5th is not fair to them, but I'd accept the argument to put them 3rd. Simply because as well as an art, it's (meant) to be a sport - and the athleticism/quality on this particular performance wasn't there for me.

Equally, if you are watching and valuing the art more than the quality of skating, I can accept the argument to put them first, because the program was beautiful and stunning.

Thank you. I 100% agree. Their edges were not as deep as the other two, nor was their speed or ice coverage as impressive - and that's with all the additional crossovers that they used compared to the other two teams. I love the original vincent, and I still think this one has potential, but I feel like it's too empty, and they do not have as much body movement as the other two teams - especially paul. He's too stiff. It's great to have excellent posture, but there needs to be less stiff as a board skating

 

[Janice4th]

Did you time it?

You know the judges do, right?

 

[Janice4th]

Dropping just for reference: the lowest ranked team at Warsaw Cup (25th) got higher one foot seq levels than 9 of 10 teams in Finlandia in the free dance. This team got 75 points.

It everyone was called on it here, so what you have is the proof that some technical panels are more lenient. So long as they are using the same yardstick, then there is no problem.

 

[discodisco]

You know the judges do, right?

I'm just saying that in ice dance forums in particular, people so casually tossed out dogmatic statements about why something is clearly wrong or one skater clearly should have been marked higher or why a call was ridiculous - but don't justify it. I, for example I'm too lazy to go back and time the lift to see if it deserved a deduction due to a time violation, partly because I don't really care, but I'm just wondering if others who say that it was a ridiculous call have gone and checked

 

[Janice4th]

I'm just saying that in ice dance forums in particular, people so casually tossed out dogmatic statements about why something is clearly wrong or one skater clearly should have been marked higher or why a call was ridiculous - but don't justify it. I, for example I'm too lazy to go back and time the lift to see if it deserved a deduction due to a time violation, partly because I don't really care, but I'm just wondering if others who say that it was a ridiculous call have gone and checked

I think it got noted by Mark, but I’m not going to o go back and watch. Their free dance is not my cup of tea. nice positions, but Terr was a sameness to it that lost my attention.

 

[4everchan]

Did you time it?

We've played that game before. Timing lift is probably the one thing that I trust the officials with. It's quite objective compared to many other areas of the scoring. The rotational lift look "very long" in real time : I think as an ice dance fan, one gets accustomed to what is long or not long for a lift so I wasn't at all surprised to see it marked with a !

So, it may sound as a dogmatic statement as you said, fair enough, but that's the one area where I do trust the judges. Also, I think it was the only lift that received a time violation deduction, so in that sense, it's even easier to believe the officials. We are not talking here about every single team (almost) getting level ones on their one-foot meaning that the only turn they got was the "taken for granted" twizzles at the end.
That makes me suspicious. The lift? Not at all.

And this is why, to avoid a wall of text, that sometimes, a fan like myself will revert to what may seem like a dogmatic statement, to use your own words.

If someone has timed it, then please share your findings. Some fans love posting videos of Queued jumps. I am not one of those unfortunately.

 

[msteach3]

There are many subjective aspects to ice dance, and as fans we all have our opinions. Many people love the Finns, and I don’t like anything about them. I love Piper and Paul, but my opinion is FB/C are stronger ice dancers and their free dance was the best one in this competition. This is why we post on this forum- to share opinions!

 

[viennaskater]

I don't care how well Zingas and partner skated, I did not find their FD engaging. Romeo and Juliet is old hat. It's a pity because I totally loved their FD last year.

As for Olivia and Tim, their 'Dune' had me gripped from start to finish. A lot of tricky moves, but it all worked well. I am sad that they did not qualify for the final.

 

[FSFan1999]

I don't care how well Zingas and partner skated, I did not find their FD engaging. Romeo and Juliet is old hat. It's a pity because I totally loved their FD last year.

As for Olivia and Tim, their 'Dune' had me gripped from start to finish. A lot of tricky moves, but it all worked well. I am sad that they did not qualify for the final.

I guess that's the beauty of the Free dance segment. There is something for everybody to enjoy, based on their personal preferences.. . Compared to the RD, where if the style is so restricted, it's difficult to enjoy unless you like the niche.

 

[viennaskater]

Love this! Amazing performers No one can sell the fun as these two.

 

[viennaskater]

Much as I love the Finns' sense of fun, and their many great program themes, this Moulin Rouge FD starts well but towards the end gets messy and clunky.

 

[bramweld]

Much as I love the Finns' sense of fun, and their many great program themes, this Moulin Rouge FD starts well but towards the end gets messy and clunky.

I loved it. Captured the theme perfectly. I like what Margalio has going for both his teams. But as was said earlier, tastes differ, but that's cool.

 

[Ruthypegs]

Seeing Jean-Luc Baker in the stands at Finlandia (loudly cheering on Olivia (and Tim)) reminded me how much I'd love for him to un-retire.
Wonder if Gabrielle could be persuaded out of retirement too, and to pair up with him - I'd love to see this. Two of the very best ice dancers in the world, and both so creative....

 

[jersey1302]

Did you time it?

Ok so I did time it. I went back to watch.. 8.21 seconds. Max is 7 seconds.

 

[FSFan1999]

Ok so I did time it. I went back to watch.. 8.21 seconds. Max is 7 seconds.

The maximum this year increased to 8 seconds, but over is over and it was over.

 

[meem]

Seeing Jean-Luc Baker in the stands at Finlandia (loudly cheering on Olivia (and Tim)) reminded me how much I'd love for him to un-retire.
Wonder if Gabrielle could be persuaded out of retirement too, and to pair up with him - I'd love to see this. Two of the very best ice dancers in the world, and both so creative....

I'd love to see him return to competition but with a shorter partner. There has to be a lot of eligible skaters he could choose from.

 

[jersey1302]

The maximum this year increased to 8 seconds, but over is over and it was over.

I think its 7. The ISU website had the document listed under sports rules, hand books (ice dance), figure skating and deduction chart for RD and FD. It does say Aug 2023 but there is nothing newer published. At least in that area of the website.

 

[FSFan1999]

I think its 7. The ISU website had the document listed under sports rules, hand books (ice dance), figure skating and deduction chart for RD and FD. It does say Aug 2023 but there is nothing newer published. At least in that area of the website.

Hi, look at isu communications 2704 under program requirements. This year it's 8seconds (Dance Requirements for Technical Rules season 2025/26 (Updated August 8, 2025))