Should Weir skip the GP this year?

[Hsuhs]

I feel a bit bad for saying this, because I don't have all the facts about Johnny's health - but how about eating something here and there? I e.g. can't even pay attention in a lecture if I haven't eaten in the morning. And there are dozens, really dozens of studies that prove that it severely damages your health if you don't eat decently (e.g reduces you leukocyte and lymphocyte count). The average man needs between 2200 and 2600 calories a day. An athlete can eat, depending on his sport, around 3000 a day. You can't eat that much salad and drink that much coffee.

During the summer we get some photos of Johnny, where he looks actually healthy for a change. But when the season starts and continues, he keeps looking thinner and thinner... Changing it now is basically impossible, because that will throw him off his jumps. But fact is that a Brian Joubert lands his jumps with 74kg (I think), and Joubert is only 3 or 4 centimetres taller than Johnny.

(perhaps someone should tell him that not eating enough, makes you age faster, makes your hair fall out earlier etc. - sometimes you have to appeal to people's vanity in order to change their minds)

I thought I should say this, b/c some ppl may really worry about Johnny's eating habits / health. During 2008 worlds I was staying at the official hotel. Unlike other skaters, Johnny had his breakfast with the mortals, i.e. ppl without ISU/ press accreditation. I sat next to him almost every morning and saw what he was eating. He ate: a. enough (more than me), b. healthy.

He didn't look starved to me either.

 

[Medusa]

I thought I should say this, b/c some ppl may really worry about Johnny's eating habits / health. During 2008 worlds I was staying at the official hotel. Unlike other skaters, Johnny had his breakfast with the mortals, i.e. ppl without ISU/ press accreditation. I sat next to him almost every morning and saw what he was eating. He ate: a. enough (more than me), b. healthy.

He didn't look starved to me either.

Hmm. Thanks for that info. That is kind of calming to know.

 

[Wicked]

I would imagine doing well in your two GP events and possibly making the GPF would be a great confidence booster for any skater. I don't think skipping that would be good thing. And wondering about why figure skating is so difficult- I think it's more mentally and psychologically stressful than other sports. In team sports it's not all on you. In other individual sports, like swimming and running, everything you do is not nitpicked half to death by judges. Performance/arty sports seem so much more stressful to me because of the judging of every little thing you do.

 

[Mathman]

You know, the more I think about it, the more it seems like skipping the Grand Prix is a viable strategy for Johnny after all.

Eyes on the prize. He could start serious training in the fall, aiming to peak at U.S. Nationals. With two good skates in Spokane, it's off to Vancouver, where anything can happen.

I think at this stage of Johnny's career he does not really need feedback from international judges. He knows what the IJS requires, he knows the difference between a level 3 and a level 4, he knows that a triple Lutz gets 6 points, he knows the difference between a good skate and a bad.

Conversely, I don't think the international judges need to see Johnny at Grand Prtix events in order to give a fair evaluation of his performance at the Olympics, should he make the team.

 

[janetfan]

You know, the more I think about it, the more it seems like skipping the Grand Prix is a viable strategy for Johnny after all.

Eyes on the prize. He could start serious training in the fall, aiming to peak at U.S. Nationals. With two good skates in Spokane, it's off to Vancouver, where anything can happen.

I think at this stage of Johnny's career he does not really need feedback from international judges. He knows what the IJS requires, he knows the difference between a level 3 and a level 4, he knows that a triple Lutz gets 6 points, he knows the difference between a good skate and a bad.

Conversely, I don't think the international judges need to see Johnny at Grand Prtix events in order to give a fair evaluation of his performance at the Olympics, should he make the team.

Johnny could try it - an all or nothing approach. One very good skate at Natls could get him a ticket to Vnacouver. But that would be it - the ol' one and done. Seems like a somewhat desperate measure to me and not very difficult for US Skating officials to see his strategy. If he wasn't at his best at Natls, or had to withdrawl that would officially end any chance for him to get to Vancouver.
Of course short of winning Grand Prix title he is in that situation already. Atleast a very good GP season gives him something to fall back on if he is in a precarious position after Natls. Like 3rd place with Evan in 4th as was already mentioned.

 

[i love to skate]

In my opinion, it would be a very poor strategy for Johnny to skip the GP series. That will leave him with only one competition before the Olympics and programs always need adjustments between competitions. He will not get any feedback from international judges which is very detrimental. If Johnny just skates Nationals in 2010 it will have been a full year since he competed. - a horrible idea in an Olympic year.

 

[fairly4]

I have a question, call me stupid. but did Johnny come out and state he didn't want to do a Grand Prix Event this season?
Or was this just started as a question by a fan on the assumption, that Johnny is good/ and for (so-called)health reasons, he shouldn't do one.

Because if it is the latter question, than it doesn't matter what we as fans think because Johnny will do GP. If it is the first one, I think it will hurt Johnny if he doesn't do one (unless it is a major health issue that requires surgery).

 

[nylynnr]

In my opinion, it would be a very poor strategy for Johnny to skip the GP series. That will leave him with only one competition before the Olympics and programs always need adjustments between competitions. He will not get any feedback from international judges which is very detrimental. If Johnny just skates Nationals in 2010 it will have been a full year since he competed. - a horrible idea in an Olympic year.

Absolutely. It is foolish to think any skater (and coach), no matter how experienced, does not need international or national events prior to 2010 U.S. Championships to gain feedback on programs. Under IJS there are many instances of top-notch people including the wrong spin combinations, lifts, footwork, etc. in programs and losing points because of it. Of course this can happen under any circumstance but the more competitive miles a program has the less likely it becomes.

 

[Tinymavy15]

I have a question, call me stupid. but did Johnny come out and state he didn't want to do a Grand Prix Event this season?
Or was this just started as a question by a fan on the assumption, that Johnny is good/ and for (so-called)health reasons, he shouldn't do one.

.

I don't remeber this...but I could have missed something.

 

[Mathman]

I don't know. I guess I was thinking of Michelle Kwan. Michelle did not do any Grand Prix events at all after 2002 Skate America. She just waltzed into Nationals with the attitude, "I'm Michelle Kwan, you're not -- what are you doing here at my annual re-coronation and love-in party?"

In my humble opinion, Johnny (and everyone else, for that matter), needs to approach nationals with the mind-set, "I'm here to win the national championship, not to finish third or fourth and try to sneak onto the Olympic team by the back door."

 

[i love to skate]

I don't know. I guess I was thinking of Michelle Kwan. Michelle did not do any Grand Prix events at all after 2002 Skate America. She just waltzed into Nationals with the attitude, "I'm Michelle Kwan, you're not -- what are you doing here at my annual re-coronation and love-in party?"

Johnny Weir is not Michelle Kwan though. Coming into that Nationals Michelle was a three time World Champion and five time National Champion. Quite a big difference compared to someone who did not even make the World Team last year. Johnny needs the program mileage and experience.

 

[Mathman]

Under IJS there are many instances of top-notch people including the wrong spin combinations, lifts, footwork, etc. in programs and losing points because of it.

I wouldn't have thought it would be that complicated.

It seems strange that top-notch skaters and their top-notch coaches and top-notch support teams wouldn't know the rules of the IJS backward and forward.

To me, that right there is a condemnation of the IJS. If the people who are most intimately involved in the sport cannot figure out whether this lift is legal or whether that spin is a level four, there is something wrong somewhere.

 

[nylynnr]

I wouldn't have thought it would be that complicated.

It seems strange that top-notch skaters and their top-notch coaches and top-notch support teams wouldn't know the rules of the IJS backward and forward.

To me, that right there is a condemnation of the IJS. If the people who are most intimately involved in the sport cannot figure out whether this lift is legal or whether that spin is a level four, there is something wrong somewhere.

It may seem strange to you, and it may cause you to condemn IJS, but it happens often. Take a look at Rachael Flatt's '09 worlds free skate protocol, for starters. And that didn't involve spin levels; it involved whether a spin was legal. I have made many mistakes in my professional life and I imagine mistakes can be made in figure skating as well.

As to whether a lift, spin or footwork passage is level 4 or not, well, there are countless instances where coaches' interpretations of the rules do not correspond with technical panels'. (Interpreting what constitutes level 4 footwork is practically a cottage industry.) Monitoring during summer comps, senior Bs, GPs, etc. all cut down on the possibility of leaving points on the table at the most important events, i.e., 2010 nationals; worlds; and Olympics.

 

[Snowgirl]

I have a question, call me stupid. but did Johnny come out and state he didn't want to do a Grand Prix Event this season?
Or was this just started as a question by a fan on the assumption, that Johnny is good/ and for (so-called)health reasons, he shouldn't do one.

http://web.icenetwork.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090521&content_id=4857880&vkey=ice_pressrelease

In this article from last week you can see that Johnny's next competition will be GP series in fall. That means he has no intention to skip it.

 

[chuckm]

Michelle Kwan stopped doing the GP because it was too hard for her to stay in top shape throughout a long season, given the hip injury which got worse and worse as the years went by. She had stopped trying to do 3/3s, loops and layback spins because they put too much strain on her hip and back.

 

[efreedman]

Mathman, I agree with you with respect to the International judging community. His issue lies with the US skating community.

I don't think that Johnny has an option, given the issues he faced last year. Every competition will have to be statement. Otherwise, there's no possibility of his either being marked appropriately at Nationals or being included on the 2010 Olympic team. I thjnk that the only acceptable (to the US judges/USFSA) reason for bowing out of the Grand Prix would be injury. And even then, I wonder about their ability to divorce themselves from their resentment.

 

[Mathman]

And even then, I wonder about their ability to divorce themselves from their resentment.

Why would the USFSA bear resentment against Johnny Weir -- or against any skater, for that matter?

You try your best. Sometimes you win, sometimes the other guy does.

Did they think that Johnny was dogging it some of the times when he did not skate so well?

I have the same problem about Alissa Czisny. Everyone seems to think that she is (or should be) in the USFSA's doghouse because she did not give a good performance at Worlds. Well, true, she didn't. But would that cause the judges to seek revenge by giving her lower marks than she deserves at 2010 nationals?

 

[janetfan]

Why would the USFSA bear resentment against Johnny Weir -- or against any skater, for that matter?
I have the same problem about Alissa Czisny. Everyone seems to think that she is (or should be) in the USFSA's doghouse because she did not give a good performance at Worlds. Well, true, she didn't. But would that cause the judges to seek revenge by giving her lower marks than she deserves at 2010 nationals?

Yes, I believe they will. I am not saying it is fair - but I don't think Alissa will be marked as generously at Nationals this season. It may be subtle, and might not even be necessary as Alissa may botch a few jumps.
Good luck Alissa - you are a beautiful skater.

 

[dancingqueen]

His issue lies with the US skating community.

I thjnk that the only acceptable (to the US judges/USFSA) reason for bowing out of the Grand Prix would be injury. And even then, I wonder about their ability to divorce themselves from their resentment.

I agree. :agree:

 

[janetfan]

Johnny Weir is not Michelle Kwan though. Coming into that Nationals Michelle was a three time World Champion and five time National Champion. Quite a big difference compared to someone who did not even make the World Team last year. Johnny needs the program mileage and experience.

I am not sure what Johnny needs to do - but I am sure it is not realistic to compare him to Michelle. Maybe Nicole Bobek or even Sasha - but not Michelle. Besides the huge difference in medals they each won, Michelle was the Golden Girl of US Skating and Johnny is the Bad Boy. If there are issues between Johnny and his federation who's fault might that be? "You reap what you sow" and that's the way it goes in life sometimes.
I really believe US Skating would have given Weir a ticket to Worlds last season if he had pulled out due to illness. I guess we will never know how that might have unfolded. It is not acceptable to compete and then say you are sick. That is not fair to the others. So again, I think it was a case of bad judgement from Weir's camp but he certainly did have bad luck with the timing of his illness. Some have mentioned the Korean Xmas Gala - but I can't come down on a skater for doing a charity event. Many fans, including me, get down on Johnny but he deserves a pass on the Xmas Gala imo. He was doing something nice and he did not get sick on purpose.
Anyway, I belive this topic was hypothetical - and if he is healthy I am sure Johnny will be at two GP events this season. If he is in good form he may also be at GP Finals.
Then Nationals and maybe Vancouver. He has the talent - now it is a matter of new programs working out, staying healthy and like any one else - a little luck is always helpful too.