Lastest Phil Hersh column

[Phoenix347]

Here's the article:

http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/sports_globetrotting/2009/11/questions-first-answers-second-now-that-the-six-regular-season-grand-prix-figure-skating-events-are-over1-who-would-win-a.html

He's rather harsh about the scoring at Skate Canada, Alissa and doesn't seem to think ice dancing is a real sport.

 

[HCOSurfer]

As harsh as he was, I'm gonna have to agree with him about the scoring.

 

[Spun Silver]

And not a word about Rachael.

This is one of his better columns, IMO. Even where I don't agree with him (and I generally do), I like the way he expresses himself, and his discussions of Caroline, SC scoring, Mirai, Jennie/Sasha, and even Alissa all seemed on target to me.

 

[i love to skate]

"Yuna Kim could stand still for four minutes, and she still would deserve higher component scores than Rochette at her best".

With this quote alone it is obvious that he has no idea what he is talking about. What an ***.

Also, he called Mirai "expressive"? :scratch:

 

[Tinymavy15]

Yuna Kim could stand still for four minutes, and she still would deserve higher component scores than Rochette at her best.

that may be true, but somehow that does not seem to be the best way to argue his point. It is another example of judges' favoritism.

That makes it more of a shame that Nagasu's jump technique is so flawed the judges hammer her with downgrades.

actually Mirai was not downgraded at all this time, she got edge calls and was otherwise not given positive benifit of the doubt.

Stupid to get into a back and forth with Kirk here. Why can't he pick a fight with someone his own size?

 

[Spun Silver]

"Yuna Kim could stand still for four minutes, and she still would deserve higher component scores than Rochette at her best". With this quote alone it is obvious that he has no idea what he is talking about. What an ***.

Hyperbole, my dear, hyperbole -- an honorable device in any writer's toolbox. His point is simply that Yu Na deserves way better component scores than Joannie. Which is true.

Also, he called Mirai "expressive"? :scratch:

Well... um... I have to assume he is talking about her natural gifts of movement - expression of the body and music itself rather than expression of emotion or the plot of Carmen. She's like a Balanchine dancer in Concerto Barocco or Agon. http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ABPub/2009/04/01/2008967008.jpg It's "abstract expressionism," so to speak.

 

[essence_of_soy]

Reading Phil Hersh's commentary on my beloved sport is like living in an abusive relationship.

You hope that next time will be different, but he just ends up damaging you all the same. I hate that he sounds so above it all. (The day he can land a waltz jump, maybe I'll reconsider)

Also, he really does sound threatened by Jenny Kirk, as he should.

She is a much more informed, more balanced writer than he could ever be. (I don't know of any other writer, certainly when I was at US Nationals or Four Continents) who respect hims, anyway.

 

[i love to skate]

Hyperbole, my dear, hyperbole -- an honorable device in any writer's toolbox. His point is simply that Yu Na deserves way better component scores than Joannie. Which is true.

Way better? I don't know why people think there is a huge seperation between the two. IMO, the two skaters are pretty close in their performance and execution and both have excellent choreography. I would say that Joannie has the best skating skills in the world.

Also, he really does sound threatened by Jenny Kirk, as he should.

She is a much more informed, more balanced writer than he could ever be. (I don't know of any other writer, certainly at US Nationals or Four Continents) who respect him, anyway.

I agree. Jenny is developing into a much better writer than him. He is also getitng into a fight with a college student who is just starting their career. Real mature Hersh :sheesh:

 

[Spun Silver]

I completely disagree about his issue with Jenny. Is there some reason college students with gigs in major papers should be exempt from basic journalistic ethics?

And he's certainly not picking on her. He's taking issue with something and acknowledging that he made the same ethical mistake himself. Is Jenny exempt from criticism?

(For that matter, is Joannie? *ducks*)

 

[Ximena]

All and all I do agree about his opinion on Joannie and Chan's PCS marks, though I do understand it's hard to read that article as objective when you read the rest, it kind of loses the only point (IMO) that rings true.

 

[i love to skate]

I completely disagree about his issue with Jenny. Is there some reason college students with gigs in major papers should be exempt from basic journalistic ethics?

She is writting a personal blog. He writes an article for a paper. There are no ethics in blogging that I am aware of.

(For that matter, is Joannie? *ducks*)

Sure Joannie can be criticized but saying that Joannie at her best could not beat Kim when she doesn't move is not cricism. It's ignorance.

 

[Tinymavy15]

Way better? I don't know why people think there is a huge seperation between the two. IMO, the two skaters are pretty close in their performance and execution and both have excellent choreography. I would say that Joannie has the best skating skills in the world.

There should not be much of a seperation at all. Actually I caonsider them very similar in thier level of greatness of skating skils(Joannie is better), musicallity, interpritation(tie), transitions (tie) and chreography (tie, maybe joannie wins in my book). Sure, joannie did not perform the cherography as well at Skate Canada compared with her first event, but that was probably because she was trying to hold it together. I am not making exuses for her, and do think that she was overscored (and probably not should have won, or at least been a lot closer) but if yu-na is getting those huge scores, then they have to raise her equals up to that level. only fair.

 

[Spun Silver]

She is writting a personal blog. He writes an article for a paper. There are no ethics in blogging that I am aware of.

Hasn't she been picked up by L.A. Times? That's not just personal any more.

I believe Jenny would accept the idea of ethics in blogging, as would many journalists. The line between blogging and traditional journalism can be pretty blurry. She doesn't strike me as striving to be brilliantly outrageous and totally personal like, say, Aunt Joyce.

About Joannie and Yu Na - we're just not going to agree! May the best woman win.

 

[i love to skate]

There should not be much of a seperation at all. Actually I caonsider them very similar in thier level of greatness of skating skils(Joannie is better), musicallity, interpritation(tie), transitions (tie) and chreography (tie, maybe joannie wins in my book). Sure, joannie did not perform the cherography as well at Skate Canada compared with her first event, but that was probably because she was trying to hold it together. I am not making exuses for her, and do think that she was overscored (and probably not should have won, or at least been a lot closer) but if yu-na is getting those huge scores, then they have to raise her equals up to that level. only fair.

Thanks for your post. I am glad to see I'm not the only one that thinks they are similar in their skills sets!

Hasn't she been picked up by L.A. Times? That's not just personal any more.

About Joannie and Yu Na - we're just not going to agree! May the best woman win.

She has a seperate blog for the LA times. The one entry about Sasha was written on her personal blog (also written before she was hired by the LA Times, I believe).

You really don't think that was an ignorant statement for him to make? What if a writer had written the same thing but reversed the names. You wouldn't have a problem with it then?

 

[paralegalmkfan]

I like what he wrote about Michelle Kwan and comparing her life to Tenley Albright's. While acknowledging her great career, he gave her kudos for having a life after skating. It's good to see former athletes identified by their whole life rather than not being able to find their way when their careers are done. I'm not too thrilled about how he held YuNa Kim to a whole level above and beyond everyone else. As we saw at SA, she is, after all, human. It's almost like jinxing someone when they're held to such a high standard. I feel the same way about Joannie's PCS scores this past weekend. And before anyone jumps all over me, I'm a fan of both skaters and hope they're both on the podium in no particular order. I would be fine with either one winning the OGM.

 

[evangeline]

He's rather harsh about the scoring at Skate Canada

Well, I would have to agree with Hersh on this point, as much as it pains me to agree with him. 77+ PCS for Chan's 3-fall program is dubious scoring at best.


As for Mirai, I believe she can be expressive, entertaining and charismatic and has demonstrated so in the past, but she doesn't always skate like that (e.g. Skate Canada LP)....something which Hersh fails to mention, of course.

 

[Mathman]

Here is where Hersh is in the wrong about the Jenny Kirk thing.

In her web log Kirk raised the issue of Sasha's candor in her timing of public pronouncements regarding her comeback attempt and her injuries. (Quite frankly, I have questions about Sasha's candor, too.)

Hersh chastised Kirk for this. Hersh holds that a "real journalist" believes everything he is fed, at least in the case of an athlete discussing the athlete's own injuries.

So far so good. Then Hersh procedes to bolster his side of the argument by calling Jenny a "a person who knows all about losing," mentioning Jenny's unremarkable efforts at World Championships.

This is journalism? To say, I know that Sasha is telling the truth about her tendonitis because Jenny Kirk finished 17th at Worlds?

 

[prettykeys]

This is journalism? To say, I know that Sasha is telling the truth about her tendonitis because Jenny Kirk finished 17th at Worlds?

He is only arguing that athletes should be given that benefit of the doubt and their words should be taken at face value. I'm going to make a longer post re: Hersh/Kirk, but I agree with him. It's a startlingly gracious journalistic position for someone who can be rather caustic and almost classless at times.

 

[MissIzzy]

It's a startlingly gracious journalistic position for someone who can be rather caustic and almost classless at times.

And would he have made it had it been anyone other than Sasha? That's almost worse than attacking everyone indiscriminately.

 

[prettykeys]

When I first saw the title of this thread, I was just rolling my eyes and wondering what more Hersh-trash I was going to have to read. I am not the biggest fan of Jenny Kirk's articles (and yes I am a little suspicious of her when it comes to her comments about Sasha), but few would probably argue against Kirk having fairer and more informed positions when it comes to Figure Skating.

There are things that bother me about Hersh. Firstly, his mocking Kirk about her "knowledge of failures" was completely out of line. I do not believe any athlete--no matter their standing--deserves to be ridiculed by a spectator who does not put himself out there, equally leaving themselves open to "failure" and mockery.

Also, I hate that Hersh said, "Czisny, no surprise, rendered meaningless her excellent short program at Skate Canada by falling twice..." Really? An imperfect LP somehow nullifies a beautiful SP? I guess if placement is all you care about, sure, but I love to see individually wonderful performances regardless of the competitive outcome.

I'm charmed by his words for YuNa and Mirai (although it is at the expense of other skaters), and the way he shakes his head at Patrick Chan's dismal performance but backs up Chan's penchant for candid commentary.

I don't know, man. He's a jerk, but he still finds a way to say things I can respect.

A simple rule applies: if an athlete says he or she is hurt, take it on face value, unless you have medical evidence to prove otherwise. (And if you do, then some doctor probably violated medicine's confidentiality rules.)

:agree: Completely agree.

I guess I can identify a little with Hersh (YIKES). I'm a jerk, but I love the people and things I love.