Lastest Phil Hersh column

[janetfan]

lol, cupcakes
how about throw all cupcakes and replace them with muffins?

There is a silly rumor that the moderators prefer brownies over muffins

 

[demarinis5]

Yes, Hersh shouldn't have elevated one skater by simultaneously trashing another.

That is Phil's modus operandi. He has been writing crap about figure skaters for years. As soon as his blogs/articles ink is dry it makes it way to the boards for discussion. He knows that his comments will irk certain fans and he just sits back and reads and laughs. Don't like Phil's articles at all.

 

[R.D.]

Can you please define "mess" or explain how the judging at SC was too much different than the other GP's?

Do you honestly believe Joannie and other Canadian skaters were the only skaters propped up this season?

Or a different question might be is so much biased judging necessary or good for the direction of the sport? With so much favoritism is it fair to consider skating under CoP really a sport at all?

Maybe I should have been more general. No, The Canadians weren't the only ones to benefit. It's just freshest in my mind.

Oh well, I'll drop it and just hope it doesn't happen again.

 

[janetfan]

Maybe I should have been more general. No, The Canadians weren't the only ones to benefit. It's just freshest in my mind.

Oh well, I'll drop it and just hope it doesn't happen again.

I had a feeling you were speaking "generally" RD.

I remember the questions raised about Evan's marks at SA.
And there were Plushy's high transition marks at RostelCup.

Jenny couldn't help notice Joubert's SP marks at NHK.

People wondered why Akiko wasn't given much credit for her SP at COC.

Jenny also wondered why Mirai's jumps at COC were all judged clean in her SP and then all knocked down in her LP?

People wondered why Yuna's TEB marks were so high.
We wondered just how badly Mao would have to skate to see her pcs dip even a little bit.

Miki even admitted she was surprised by her favorable marks after two very lacklustre performances.

I could go on and am sure others could add to this list.

It seems reasonable to say politically driven marks and dubious judging were on display at every single GP event this season.

That is why I think it sounds strange for anyone to single out SC and that only SC's marks were questionable this season.

 

[evangeline]

It seems reasonable to say politically driven marks and dubious judging were on display at every single GP event this season.

That is why I think it sounds strange for anyone to single out SC and that only SC's marks were questionable this season.

True, dodgy marks have been given out all season, but I think Skate Canada is especially scrutinized because a) the Olympics are in Canada this year, so it can be seen as a preview of how marking might go at the Olympics and b) some people see Skate Canada as the event with the most obvious examples of the phenomenon we will euphemistically refer to as "home-cooking," which may not go over well with some fans.

Before everyone gets in arms over b), I will add the caveat that this may appear to be so because Canada the host had so many strong medal contenders at their own event, unlike events like Trophee Eric Bompard (I'm sure even Didier G., for example, would find it difficult to prop up James/Bonheur at the TEB pairs event). But many of the other examples you gave--like Yu-Na at TEB, Joubert at NHK, Akiko at CoC, etc--they're more examples of reputation marking than home-cooking. Reputation marking is equally unfair as home-cooking, I would argue, but it's more common and you can say that every skater of every nationality can potentially benefit.

 

[shine]

Well, I think Hersh's statement that "Yuna Kim standing for 4 minutes deserves higher PCS than a clean Joannie Rochette" is bullshit. Sure, it is a hyperbole, but it also shows ignorance and unrestrained favoritism. He really lost what little credibility he had from me.
And how some people can't see something wrong with his attack on Jenny's journalistic ability using her "failure" as a former figure skater is just complete beyond me. Whatever.

 

[ehdtkqorl123]

Somebody should email him the link to this thread

 

[Ptolemy]

Well, I think Hersh's statement that "Yuna Kim standing for 4 minutes deserves higher PCS than a clean Joannie Rochette" is bullshit. Sure, it is a hyperbole, but it also shows ignorance and unrestrained favoritism. He really lost what little credibility he had from me.
And how some people can't see something wrong with his attack on Jenny's journalistic ability using her "failure" as a former figure skater is just complete beyond me. Whatever.

Don't you think you're being too sensitive shine? Hyperbole according to my dashboard dictionary is "exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally." Clearly his statement was hyperbole. And Hersh may be ignorant on some issues and have favorites. But I just don't see his analysis and conclusions even if flawed, necessarily showing ignorance or favoritism. Many think Joannie was overscored and not as talented as Yuna. Are they all ignorant and biased?

 

[prettykeys]

Clearly his statement was hyperbole. And Hersh may be ignorant on some issues and have favorites. But I just don't see his analysis and conclusions even if flawed, necessarily showing ignorance or favoritism. Many think Joannie was overscored and not as talented as Yuna. Are they all ignorant and biased?

It's one thing to have a preference, but the way Hersh put it made it sound like Joannie is a godawful skater (when in fact, considering all things like skills, consistency, personality, I would easily put her in the Top 5 of current ladies.) A casual reader with little knowledge of figure skating might get the idea that Joannie is really that much worse than YuNa, and what's more, it's really unfair to Joannie even if his preferences go that way.

What I like about Joannie's performances is that she projects a calm, understated and dignified demeanor (to some this is "boring" I guess) that is very consistent with her personality off the ice. Joannie is a drama-free individual who has her own sense of style and appears very friendly. She is one of the few skaters who I think actually look better in casual clothes rather than in competition mode. I know skaters like YuNa and Mao are striking on the ice, but off the ice they are girls--very cute, pretty girls--and Rochette's a lady.

http://www.nicolskatesforgold.com/photos/53-Joannie_Rochette_and_me.jpg

http://z.about.com/d/figureskating/1/0/I/b/-/-/joannie-rochette-0759-401x500.jpg

http://www.ctvm.info/IMG/jpg/Joannie-Rochette_W.jpg

http://pages.infinit.net/mylenel/myletjoannie.jpg

http://www.aessc.ca/images/Joannie.jpg

http://www.jeffreybuttle.com/gallery/db/db-coi06-07.jpg

http://www.cyberpresse.ca/images/bi...3/57725-cette-semaine-los-angeles-joannie.jpg

http://www.skatecanada.ca/en/images/content/ACGM09/Sharon-Dahl.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_8mmhWiBmG...AH-c/xbh8ie1dsZs/s400/FlouJoannieRochette.jpg
(is that her boyfriend??)

When I watched Joannie a few years ago, she was the undisputed Canadian champion (yes, for that long) but generally struggling in international competitions and popping or strumbling out of her triple jumps. Something was not working for her and YuNa and Mao were leaps and bounds ahead. I have no idea how and what she changed, but she really has improved tremendously. As a skater, her strengths aren't as strikingly obvious, but everything considered truly is one of the best out there right now. I'm really happy for her timing, her progress, everything. Perhaps Joannie info isn't as widely heard outside of Canada, but her rise in the skating world is not merely coincidental with the Vancouver Olympics. Her improvements are real.

 

[i love to skate]

Thanks for the great post!

In regards to that last picture, yes that is her boyfriend. I think he had a lot to do with Joannie turning a switch, believing in herself, and making improvements. I don't know if he inspired her or love just suits her but he must have a lit a fire in her - maybe it helps he is an Olympian as well!

 

[prettykeys]

Ah, l'amour!

 

[demarinis5]

Somebody should email him the link to this thread

No need to. He has admitted he reads the boards.

 

[evangeline]

It's one thing to have a preference, but the way Hersh put it made it sound like Joannie is a godawful skater (when in fact, considering all things like skills, consistency, personality, I would easily put her in the Top 5 of current ladies.) A casual reader with little knowledge of figure skating might get the idea that Joannie is really that much worse than YuNa, and what's more, it's really unfair to Joannie even if his preferences go that way.

Exactly. It's not that Hersh's preference of Yu-Na over Joannie is controversial or even uncommon, it's simply that he could've expressed his opinion with a great deal more tact and without unfairly denigrating Joannie's abilities.

Admittedly, this can be applied to practically everything Hersh writes.

 

[csunny7]

If Canada had not allowed her, she would have gone to US and possibly now under Carrol or Laws or some other great coach. Don't forget she pays for what she receives.

I think the YuNa-Orser relation has been one of the most successful win-win. Yes, YuNa improved a lot under Orser and she is really comfortable in the Cricket club. However, Orser has become one of the best coaches in the world thanks to YuNa. How could a rookie coach be this successful only in three years? Because he has a great student.

Also, Cricket club has become one of the the most talked about skating club in the world with YuNa, Adam, Gao. In 2007, she was the only well known skater there. It all came when YuNa persuaded Orser several times to be her coach. He was not even a coach when she first met him. YuNa contributed a lot to the Canadian skating.

Thanks for welcoming her warmly though.

Absolutely right! :agree::agree::agree:

 

[mycelticblessing]

I know skaters like YuNa and Mao are striking on the ice, but off the ice they are girls--very cute, pretty girls--and Rochette's a lady.

:scratch: I have to disagree with you. I think Mao and Yuna are ladies both on and off the ice. They hold themselves very well for their age, which is really impressive considering the amount of press coverage the two get.

 

[Ptolemy]

Exactly. It's not that Hersh's preference of Yu-Na over Joannie is controversial or even uncommon, it's simply that he could've expressed his opinion with a great deal more tact and without unfairly denigrating Joannie's abilities.

Admittedly, this can be applied to practically everything Hersh writes.

Thank you. You must agree with me. His hyperbole makes him a jerk or at best a journalist attempting to grow readership, but it doesn't make him ignorant or biased.

 

[prettykeys]

:scratch: I have to disagree with you. I think Mao and Yuna are ladies both on and off the ice. They hold themselves very well for their age, which is really impressive considering the amount of press coverage the two get.

OK. You disagree.

:scratch:

 

[shine]

It's one thing to have a preference, but the way Hersh put it made it sound like Joannie is a godawful skater (when in fact, considering all things like skills, consistency, personality, I would easily put her in the Top 5 of current ladies.) A casual reader with little knowledge of figure skating might get the idea that Joannie is really that much worse than YuNa, and what's more, it's really unfair to Joannie even if his preferences go that way.

What I like about Joannie's performances is that she projects a calm, understated and dignified demeanor (to some this is "boring" I guess) that is very consistent with her personality off the ice. Joannie is a drama-free individual who has her own sense of style and appears very friendly. She is one of the few skaters who I think actually look better in casual clothes rather than in competition mode. I know skaters like YuNa and Mao are striking on the ice, but off the ice they are girls--very cute, pretty girls--and Rochette's a lady.

http://www.nicolskatesforgold.com/photos/53-Joannie_Rochette_and_me.jpg

http://z.about.com/d/figureskating/1/0/I/b/-/-/joannie-rochette-0759-401x500.jpg

http://www.ctvm.info/IMG/jpg/Joannie-Rochette_W.jpg

http://pages.infinit.net/mylenel/myletjoannie.jpg

http://www.aessc.ca/images/Joannie.jpg

http://www.jeffreybuttle.com/gallery/db/db-coi06-07.jpg

http://www.cyberpresse.ca/images/bi...3/57725-cette-semaine-los-angeles-joannie.jpg

http://www.skatecanada.ca/en/images/content/ACGM09/Sharon-Dahl.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_8mmhWiBmG...AH-c/xbh8ie1dsZs/s400/FlouJoannieRochette.jpg
(is that her boyfriend??)

When I watched Joannie a few years ago, she was the undisputed Canadian champion (yes, for that long) but generally struggling in international competitions and popping or strumbling out of her triple jumps. Something was not working for her and YuNa and Mao were leaps and bounds ahead. I have no idea how and what she changed, but she really has improved tremendously. As a skater, her strengths aren't as strikingly obvious, but everything considered truly is one of the best out there right now. I'm really happy for her timing, her progress, everything. Perhaps Joannie info isn't as widely heard outside of Canada, but her rise in the skating world is not merely coincidental with the Vancouver Olympics. Her improvements are real.

Thank you and ITA.

 

[Ptolemy]

It's one thing to have a preference, but the way Hersh put it made it sound like Joannie is a godawful skater (when in fact, considering all things like skills, consistency, personality, I would easily put her in the Top 5 of current ladies.) A casual reader with little knowledge of figure skating might get the idea that Joannie is really that much worse than YuNa, and what's more, it's really unfair to Joannie even if his preferences go that way.

What I like about Joannie's performances is that she projects a calm, understated and dignified demeanor (to some this is "boring" I guess) that is very consistent with her personality off the ice. Joannie is a drama-free individual who has her own sense of style and appears very friendly. She is one of the few skaters who I think actually look better in casual clothes rather than in competition mode. I know skaters like YuNa and Mao are striking on the ice, but off the ice they are girls--very cute, pretty girls--and Rochette's a lady.

When I watched Joannie a few years ago, she was the undisputed Canadian champion (yes, for that long) but generally struggling in international competitions and popping or strumbling out of her triple jumps. Something was not working for her and YuNa and Mao were leaps and bounds ahead. I have no idea how and what she changed, but she really has improved tremendously. As a skater, her strengths aren't as strikingly obvious, but everything considered truly is one of the best out there right now. I'm really happy for her timing, her progress, everything. Perhaps Joannie info isn't as widely heard outside of Canada, but her rise in the skating world is not merely coincidental with the Vancouver Olympics. Her improvements are real.

In fact, I agree with your comments. Well, not sure about the middle paragraph but the 1st and last. Joannie has moved from a very good skater to an excellent performer and appears to be one of the toughest challengers to Yuna right now. She really looks great.

My comments were about some of the criticism directed toward Hersch. While the criticism was deserved IMO, I thought some of the language used was incorrect. I probably should have made both opinions clear when I first commented.

 

[MissIzzy]

Mombo offers her humble opinion, as does her daughter. Needless to say, they are not pleased.
(She also plugs her new book. Hee.)