Can Sasha pull a "Michelle Kwan" and get on the Olympic team?

[janetfan]

Meant to highlight my point, there is no good information to make a good prediction.

I appreciate your perspective on this gsrossano. Too much talk from people not in the loop means nothing.

I am not really expecting for Sasha to come out and skate like she did a few years ago. If she did - I think she would win Natls easily. But unlike others I have no problem with her attempting a comeback.

Personally I would be happy to see Alissa and Mirai picked for the team. Or Rachael and Ashley. I hope they all skate reasonably well at Natls and that the judging is fair and unbiased.

I love Natls and think between the Men, Ladies and Dance it will be interesting and possibly thrilling next month.

Was curious - have you seen or heard much about Carolina or Mirai?

 

[gsrossano]

Was curious - have you seen or heard much about Carolina or Mirai?

I drop in at El Segundo for lunch from time to time. Nothing earth shattering to tell. Was there earlier this week. Carolina was working choreography that day. Hopefully she will be filling in some of the big holes in her program, but I didn't see a complete run through. Mirai was working 3F+3T. The 3T looked cheated to me on every attempt, but some were pretty close -- would have needed a "review" on some of them to decide for sure. She looked a lot happier than the last time she competed.

 

[fairly4]

sasha is on the team

why--in 2007 the usfsa stated in the news sasha they would love to have her on the team--now got two gps events --buzz nothing new about younger skaters-infact push for older skaters
flat out stated the 2006 silver medal is bye to nationals =no word on stating she has to go to nationals to be on olympic team
also still high score-even though cheated

in 1999 when asked if michelle was on olympic team in 2002 they flat out stated in press --she HAD TO MAKE THE TEAM (notice nothing said about sasha making team-why she is on the team

when asked if 1998 qualified for her team in 2002-they still STATED SHE HAD TO MAKE THE TEAM IN 2002--notice sasha SILVER Medal gets her everything.

when asked again after MIchelle WON 2000 worlds _Stated SHE Had to MAKE ThE TEAM when media and fans stated her world title Thed USfsa and USOC still came out and stated to the Press MIchelle had to Make the Team -why too many YOUNGER Skaters like Sasha and sarah was coming up--even in 2001 After SHe won worlds Michelle HAD TO MAKE TEAM coming out in press--with Sasha silver medal gets her bye-nothing stated about sasha making the team-in fact total silence-why __Sasha is on the team.the usfsa doesn't want the public to know that sasha is on the team why uproar about why she didn't have to skate for 3 Healthy years and she is on the team. the kids who are injured are out.
not to mention this year all skaters had to do something to get to nationals
sasha is only skater who didn't have to do anything-stated injury after healty skater in PRO SHOW and walla she is on based on olympic medal which MIchelle never got based on her medal. in fact if MIchelle pulled what sasha did the past 3 years the UPROAR WOULD BE WORSE.
bye the way sasha is white--michelle is chinese--cant deny it statement of fact.
the press was coming out in 1998 that michelle might not have made the team in 1998 why her injured foot until ONLY in 1998 they stated she was on the team because of her world title.

michelle never had usfsa back, sasha , tara sarah did-.
can tell n 2006 phone in sasha ear-kept press away--michelle in 1998 definitely made sure press went to michelle and reported everything in 2002 made sure they knew she was staying olympic village etc. phone in ear-quiet practice place for michelle no--sarah 2002-quiet practice place , tara quiet practice place-, sasha phone in ear. now michelle if came back had to go through regionals-yes
sasha is on team

be in denial--until i hear otherwise you can fool the media and figure skating fans-but not me-until something is said or done-sasha is on team and don't deny they will cheat for sasha.with pc scores in 10's so no matter if she screws up she is on the team.
they will come out with an excue which you and medial will buy.




read between the lines.also the real reason is because they don't want the public to know they have always favored

 

[silverlake22]

sasha is on the team

why--in 2007 the usfsa stated in the news sasha they would love to have her on the team--now got two gps events --buzz nothing new about younger skaters-infact push for older skaters
flat out stated the 2006 silver medal is bye to nationals =no word on stating she has to go to nationals to be on olympic team
also still high score-even though cheated

in 1999 when asked if michelle was on olympic team in 2002 they flat out stated in press --she HAD TO MAKE THE TEAM (notice nothing said about sasha making team-why she is on the team

when asked if 1998 qualified for her team in 2002-they still STATED SHE HAD TO MAKE THE TEAM IN 2002--notice sasha SILVER Medal gets her everything.

when asked again after MIchelle WON 2000 worlds _Stated SHE Had to MAKE ThE TEAM when media and fans stated her world title Thed USfsa and USOC still came out and stated to the Press MIchelle had to Make the Team -why too many YOUNGER Skaters like Sasha and sarah was coming up--even in 2001 After SHe won worlds Michelle HAD TO MAKE TEAM coming out in press--with Sasha silver medal gets her bye-nothing stated about sasha making the team-in fact total silence-why __Sasha is on the team.the usfsa doesn't want the public to know that sasha is on the team why uproar about why she didn't have to skate for 3 Healthy years and she is on the team. the kids who are injured are out.
not to mention this year all skaters had to do something to get to nationals
sasha is only skater who didn't have to do anything-stated injury after healty skater in PRO SHOW and walla she is on based on olympic medal which MIchelle never got based on her medal. in fact if MIchelle pulled what sasha did the past 3 years the UPROAR WOULD BE WORSE.
bye the way sasha is white--michelle is chinese--cant deny it statement of fact.
the press was coming out in 1998 that michelle might not have made the team in 1998 why her injured foot until ONLY in 1998 they stated she was on the team because of her world title.

michelle never had usfsa back, sasha , tara sarah did-.
can tell n 2006 phone in sasha ear-kept press away--michelle in 1998 definitely made sure press went to michelle and reported everything in 2002 made sure they knew she was staying olympic village etc. phone in ear-quiet practice place for michelle no--sarah 2002-quiet practice place , tara quiet practice place-, sasha phone in ear. now michelle if came back had to go through regionals-yes
sasha is on team

be in denial--until i hear otherwise you can fool the media and figure skating fans-but not me-until something is said or done-sasha is on team and don't deny they will cheat for sasha.with pc scores in 10's so no matter if she screws up she is on the team.
they will come out with an excue which you and medial will buy.




read between the lines.also the real reason is because they don't want the public to know they have always favored

Wow, that was intense. I don't think we can assume she's on the team because....SHE'S INJURED. The USFSA isn't stupid enough to send someone who's too injured to compete on the grand prix circuit to the OLYMPICS. So unless Sasha is completely better, I doubt she'll go. If her tendonitis prevents her from doing flip and lutz, she has zero chance of medaling at the Olympics. That's just the truth.

If Sasha was not injured, then I could see where you are coming from, but because she is, that changes everything

 

[fairly4]

she is always injured--ithey judges overlook her flutz and lip and her other technique problems they just put her pcs scores up toe make up for loss of points on jumps--doesn't matter if she doesn't jump right/correctly-she is on the team.
she will have the highest/inflated pcs scores to offset the tes scores of the younger skaters like rachel, alissa, mirai, ashley.

all sasha has to do is stand up in the short-give high pcs 8 or 9 and somewhere 30-35 in tes for short program and can bomb long and still win and be on team.
yes they will be a (slightly injured skater at the olympics) why-pcs scores for sasha .
yes i am intense when it comes to team--and rigging/cheating scores/favorites and politics--it hurts the sport, the olympic spirit and the skaters themselves.

 

[Bruin714]

she is always injured--ithey judges overlook her flutz and lip and her other technique problems they just put her pcs scores up toe make up for loss of points on jumps--doesn't matter if she doesn't jump right/correctly-she is on the team.

Wow, she had a flutz and a lip? Wouldn't this mean she has a true lutz and and true flip too?

 

[silverlake22]

Wow, she had a flutz and a lip? Wouldn't this mean she has a true lutz and and true flip too?

That's what I'm saying. She might not even be able to do a flutz or a lip....she might not be able to skate at all! If she was able, don't you think she would have gone to SA? I do....

 

[MKFSfan]

Sasha definitely had a flutz. The lip idea comes from the fact she would wobble back and forth on the edge going towards her intended flip. Before I learned how to tell based on what Sasha would do before the jump, I could not distinguish if Sasha intended to do a flip or lutz. Not that I am an expert by any means! A more extreme example is Caroline, who has gotten "!" calls on her flip in the same program she'd get a "e" on her lutz, and as we all know, her edge technique into jumps is very iffy, IMO, more so than Sasha's.

 

[Tonichelle]

The USFSA isn't stupid enough to send someone who's too injured to compete on the grand prix circuit to the OLYMPICS.

*ahem* Michelle Kwan -2006

 

[silverlake22]

*ahem* Michelle Kwan -2006

Yeah but Michelle did not actually compete at the Olympics, Emily did. If Sasha gets chosen without skating and then realizes she'll probably end up in 15th at the Olympics I have no doubt she'll withdraw and someone like Alissa or Mirai will take her place

 

[herios]

Sasha definitely had a flutz. The lip idea comes from the fact she would wobble back and forth on the edge going towards her intended flip. Before I learned how to tell based on what Sasha would do before the jump, I could not distinguish if Sasha intended to do a flip or lutz. Not that I am an expert by any means! A more extreme example is Caroline, who has gotten "!" calls on her flip in the same program she'd get a "e" on her lutz, and as we all know, her edge technique into jumps is very iffy, IMO, more so than Sasha's.

If Sasha will come back and jump like in 2006, the techical caller would cream her. I am very skeptical that she could correct her flaws at this point in time.

 

[janetfan]

If Sasha will come back and jump like in 2006, the techical caller would cream her. I am very skeptical that she could correct her flaws at this point in time.

You are probably right. The judges are also "creaming" Mao's jumps - right?
And Yuna has been getting dinged too. And Miki has had trouble landing four clean triples this season. And Joannie and Laura are landing more doubles than triples this season and still winning medals.

Do you think a healthy Sasha would be shaking in her boots at the thought of landing 4 or 5 triples in an LP? That used to be a bad performance from Sasha

 

[gsrossano]

I doubt a skater/coach would have the nerve to do it (since it's unpredictable how the judges would really react) But if a skater with great spins, steps and components did short and long with only one clean 3S and 3T in each, with level 4 spins and steps, +1 GoEs, and 8.5s for PCs, a total score of 210 is achievable -- medal territory for the ladies.

The only question in my mind is whether a skater who truly deserved 8.5s in the PCs would actually get them if they included only two triples.

So let's pretend (and only a guess) that Sasha who once had great spins, steps and components has gotten them back , but not the jumps. Does she say the heck with the jumps and try to kick butt with the rest, or does she flog the jumps and risk getting a lot of dings on the jumps which will pull down her components, and probably everything else.

Say you are Sasha and you have lost most of your jumps. What is your strategy?

 

[janetfan]

I doubt a skater/coach would have the nerve to do it (since it's unpredictable how the judges would really react) But if a skater with great spins, steps and components did short and long with only one clean 3S and 3T in each, with level 4 spins and steps, +1 GoEs, and 8.5s for PCs, a total score of 210 is achievable -- medal territory for the ladies.

The only question in my mind is whether a skater who truly deserved 8.5s in the PCs would actually get them if they included only two triples.

So let's pretend (and only a guess) that Sasha who once had great spins, steps and components has gotten them back , but not the jumps. Does she say the heck with the jumps and try to kick butt with the rest, or does she flog the jumps and risk getting a lot of dings on the jumps which will pull down her components, and probably everything else.

Say you are Sasha and you have lost most of your jumps. What is your strategy?

No, you are talking about Kati at the '94 Olympics.
Whatever Sasha's critics like to say and make up about her - she has always been a cocky and brave performer.

Sasha went for the 3x3 at SLC - not Irina or Michelle.

For better or worse, if Sasha shows at Natls - I think she will go for it.
But there is a first time for everything...............

 

[silverlake22]

You are probably right. The judges are also "creaming" Mao's jumps - right?
And Yuna has been getting dinged too. And Miki has had trouble landing four clean triples this season. And Joannie and Laura are landing more doubles than triples this season and still winning medals.

Do you think a healthy Sasha would be shaking in her boots at the thought of landing 4 or 5 triples in an LP? That used to be a bad performance from Sasha

Yuna broke world records with a 5 triple FS, and won the GPF with 4....Laura Lepisto won Euros with 4 triples in the FS and normally does less than that, Alissa won nationals with a 3 triple FS....this is kind of sad.

I feel bad for Rachael and Akiko, who still attempt 7 triples and normally land/do most or all of them...Not to mention Caroline, who apart from SC normally lands 6 or 7 triples but still gets bad scores...

 

[janetfan]

Yuna broke world records with a 5 triple FS, and won the GPF with 4....Laura Lepisto won Euros with 4 triples in the FS and normally does less than that, Alissa won nationals with a 3 triple FS....this is kind of sad.

I feel bad for Rachael and Akiko, who still attempt 7 triples and normally land/do most or all of them...Not to mention Caroline, who apart from SC normally lands 6 or 7 triples but still gets bad scores...

Part of my point is that Yuna is a great performer. Watching her at Worlds last year it was more than her technical ability that broke the scoring record. Yuna performed brilliantly and the judges rewarded it.

Watching Yuna at TEB this season, it was more than her technical superiorty that gave her a another world record. She performed so well in Paris.

Performance abilty matters and counts. If Alissa and Sasha come out equal on jumps at Natls I suspect Sahsa will still beat Alissa simply by being a better performer.

 

[Bruin714]

So let's pretend (and only a guess) that Sasha who once had great spins, steps and components has gotten them back , but not the jumps. Does she say the heck with the jumps and try to kick butt with the rest, or does she flog the jumps and risk getting a lot of dings on the jumps which will pull down her components, and probably everything else.

Say you are Sasha and you have lost most of your jumps. What is your strategy?

I think I'll stick to what I wrote earlier, if her difficult jumps are not there, she should use this layout:

Triple Filp
Triple Toe-double toe
Triple Sal-double toe
Triple Toe
Triple Sal
Dobule Axel-double toe-double toe
Double Axel

Even if she plans to fall on the triple flip, she still has 4 triples and double axels to cushion her scores. A few posters already pointed out that 4 triples is excellent nowadays based on the grand prix series. Hope her team has been watching. Cohen will still make the Olympic team with just two types of triples.

 

[i love to skate]

Performance abilty matters and counts. If Alissa and Sasha come out equal on jumps at Natls I suspect Sahsa will still beat Alissa simply by being a better performer.

I would put Alissa ahead on performance. There is a subtleness and softness about her expression and performance that I just love. She would beat Sasha in spins hands down and would receive higher marks in skating skills, IMO. I can't wait until the end of Janurary so we will all know once and for all if Sasha is going to compete and won't have to debate it back and forth!

 

[janetfan]

I would put Alissa ahead on performance. There is a subtleness and softness about her expression and performance that I just love. She would beat Sasha in spins hands down as well as in skating skills, IMO. I can't wait until the end of Janurary so we will all know once and for all if Sasha is going to compete and won't have to debate it back and forth!

Finaly - a good and fair answer.

I think Alissa can at times be a good performer and even when she falls the overall effect of her skating is still lovely.

It just never approached Sasha's abilty. When did Sasha ever come in 14th at Worlds - or whatever Alissa has managed? Let's have a reality check here posters

Remember '06 - and Sasha messing up - still crushed Joannie - who had a pretty good LP at Torino.

There is a difference - a "wow" factor and few skaters in history have had Sasha's exquisite positions on the ice. Joannie has improved but I seriously doubt if she can compete with a Sahsa anywhere near her '06 level.
All of the double jumps we have seen from Joannie this GP season will not put her ahead of Sasha. It wouldn't even be close.

Sasha can simply skate out onto the ice waiting to be announced - and judges will clearly see she is better than Miki. For gosh sakes, we are talking about some of the most beautiful positions in skating history. :yes: Miki is one of the least musical skaters I have ever seen and although I like her she is a jumper and nothing more.

Believe me, if Sasha can jump at all - she has nothing to worry about and should win US Natls easily and then be a strong possibilty for a medal at Vancouver.

ETA: Here is Miki at Torino:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNL_4S-MTLM

Is she much better today? IMO only if she lands some big jumps.

 

[gkelly]

But if a skater with great spins, steps and components did short and long with only one clean 3S and 3T in each, with level 4 spins and steps, +1 GoEs, and 8.5s for PCs, a total score of 210 is achievable -- medal territory for the ladies.

I would put Alissa ahead on performance. There is a subtleness and softness about her expression and performance that I just love.

I think one of Cohen's biggest assets as a performer, along with her great extension and body line, was the aggressiveness she brought to her performances.

It would be hard to convey that sense of confident attack in a long program full of double jumps.

Short program with 3S and 3T, why not? If the problem is with her right-foot takeoffs, would she be able to focus on the 3T instead enough to work up a triple-triple combo with that?

Are her struggles with the loop, flip, and lutz more about getting up into the air pain free at all? Or mainly about getting three rotations? If she can still do her spectacular Russian split jumps, maybe split jump into double flip with high GOE would be more valuable to her than a doomed triple flip attempt.

I don't know that softness would work for her as well as it does for Alissa Czisny. But at her peak Cohen's PCS were higher than Czisny's.

Some judges may prefer attack, some may prefer softness. Whose on the panel could make a difference if those two skaters had comparable tech content.