2018 Olympic Figure Skating Ladies SP

Dr. Jenn said:

Ouch... rough skate by Maria... She kept performing though, so good effort from her. Those tanos are just hideous. I wish that she would get rid of them. They're a blight on her skating.

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I don't find her engaging at all - and yes, I am sick of those jumps. It's like 'oh you can jump with your arm up, we get it, now how about some VARIATION? Say, both arms up sometimes, or even NO arms up??' And yes, it looks ugly.

I am pleased that Caro made the final group for the free!

Tolstoj said:

You should check the rules again but that's not ISU's definition of balance. (it doesn't have anything with the jumps actually)

It isn't written anywhere that a backloaded program should be penalised.



That's so ridiculous.

If we want to complain Alina's technique you have 10-15 skaters that have a much worse technique than her.

Why judges didn't call Kaetlyn and Gabby flutzes in the SP?

Why they didn't call Satoko's underrotations?

What about Dabin Choi's CLEAR lack of steps on her solo jump? It SHOULD be a mandatory -3 from all the judges according to the rules.

and yes Carolina doesn't prerotate at all but her air position is worse than Alina, most of the time she is not straight in the air (and that's something we could address to kaetlyn too) that's the main reason why she can't do a 3-3 consistently and even when she does, GOEs shouldn't be as good. (also for other things like the lack of transitions, no arm variations,...)

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The question was "what's the problem with their backloading/why don't you think it's impressive that they backload".

That's my answer to you.

The other skaters didn't come up in the question. And, also, they don't backload. If they did, the complaint would be the same.

chopinskate said:

The question was "what's the problem with their backloading/why don't you think it's impressive that they backload".

That's my answer to you.

The other skaters didn't come up in the question. And, also, they don't backload. If they did, the complaint would be the same.

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The backloading -> the thing is not how many things you do in the first half but more, the fact that you have to jump your combo in the 2nd half after you did other things... that's the reason why most of the skaters do their 3-3 combos in the first 5-10 seconds of their programs.

And also the fact that if you miss the combo in the 2nd half, you have literally 5 seconds to put it on the next jump, with no time to recover. It's incredibly stressful for the skater.

You'll see in Alina's FS, how it's even more difficult because she has to jump 7 triples (including two 3-3 and the 3-2-2) and two 2a in less than 2 minutes.

Tolstoj said:

The backloading -> the thing is not how many things you do in the first half but more, the fact that you have to jump your combo in the 2nd half after you did other things... that's the reason why most of the skaters do their 3-3 combos in the first 5-10 seconds of their programs.

And also the fact that if you miss the combo in the 2nd half, you have literally 5 seconds to put it on the next jump, with no time to recover.

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The bonus is present in the second half because after you've expended energy in the first half doing things you're supposed to be doing then, your legs become tired.

Before, people used to frontload to avoid this.

So they gave a bonus to encourage balanced program.

If you aren't doing much in the first half and your jumps are low quality in the second, that's just "abusing the system", not "no one else can do this".

chopinskate said:

The bonus is present in the second half because after you've expended energy in the first half doing things you're supposed to be doing then, your legs become tired.

Before, people used to frontload to avoid this.

So they gave a bonus to encourage balanced program.

If you aren't doing much in the first half and your jumps are low quality in the second, that's just "abusing the system", not "no one else can do this".

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The bonus is there because you do a jump in the 2nd half, and NOT because you have to do X elements before.

Also doing a spin and a level 4 steps sequence in the first half is not nothing, please stop. (and one more spin wouldn't make that much difference anyway)

Low quality (i've already argued that is not true at all): things like the air position, arm variations, the transitions in and out increase the quality of your jump according to the rules.

Reminder for anyone here: before going into these bash fests against the russians, at least check the rules before.

Tolstoj said:

Reminder for anyone here: before going into these bash fests against the russians, at least check the rules before.

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It's not a bash-fest against the Russians. You can check my previous posts about Alina.

For the other things, it's just the same reductive discussion that plays on GS every three weeks, so I'm not getting into this. Inevitably someone else will. Good luck to them.

chopinskate said:

I'll try -- because they're not doing much in the first half of the program. Their legs aren't too tired by doing the steps and the spins. Especially Med's and Zag's steps, which aren't even all that power-consuming.

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1. your statement that backloaders are not doing "much" in the first half of their program is just false. They are fulfilling other required elements that are equally important as the jumps.

2. How are their steps not power consuming when in fact Zagitova does the most feature in her Stsq.

3. If you ever skated, you would know more than the physical demand of backloading, its the mental aspect that's the deal breaker. Yup mental aspect. The area that seem to seperate the good and great skaters.

not a good event. karen, mirai, carolina, gabi and maria could have all fought for that coveted bronze but blew their chances. super sad for maria and mirai... also karen, i like her skating so much.

but i'm happy for dabin, she was one of the very few who went clean, her combo was clean, she delivered in front of the home crowd and made her country proud. hers was a great responsibility. also her sp is very lovely. i would have had her ahead of gabi, but she got ok scores.

medvedeva's jumps were much less laboured than earlier this year. good for her. she's a fantastic competitor.

and that bronze has to go to satoko. it just has to.

Just my thoughts for what they are worth. (not much)
On the whole, I thought it was a good short program. Many of the ladies performed up to their potential. However, I think the scoring was a bit insane. Everyone was getting PB and the technical panel was lax on underrotations. I don't have a favorite ladies skater at the moment so I could enjoy the programs without having any hopes or expectations beyond good will for all the skaters. Personally, I liked Katelyn Osmond's program the best today. She flies across the ice, has great edges, the program is well-choreographed and her jumps are really the best among the ladies. Great height and distance covered. If she was more consistent, she could have PCS at the level of Medvedeva because her skating skills are better and her performance is just as good. I also, as always, loved Carolina's program (but her skate at European's was much better) and Satoko was beautiful (as always). I think that technical panel was a bit lax on these two ladies though (as well as Maria Sotskova who I think underrotated everything) but at least they seemed to be lax with (almost) everyone. Between Alina and Medvedeva, I have to say that I was team Medvedeva today. I like Medvedeva's program more this year than in previous years and she has a musicality that Alina lacks, plus her skating skills are better. However, her triple- triple combination was quite muscled today. I think she has performed this program better than today so the PB was a bit funny (but it is the Olympics). Alina was not behind her music today as she has been at previous performances, so that was nice. Her 3LZ3LO was very well executed. As was her 3F. (Her rippon on this jump really is lovely). I think she deserves to be in first place in TES by far because of the backloading and the lovely jumps but I would not give her PCS anywhere close to Medvedeva, Kostner, Osmond, or Satoko. But, she got higher PCS than Osmond and Satoko. (I find that strange) But, consistency = high PCS in ladies these days. I love Kaori Sakamoto (so cute) and her jumps are really good,deservedly high TES mark.

I thought Dabin was quite lovely. She seems a bit slow in her skating but is pleasant to watch despite that. However, I think skating speed often has a large impact on PCS so that may be why her PCS marks were low here. Bit shocking to see Bradie Tennell fall, but she has never been to a large competition before so I guess nerves can even affect her. This short program is much better than her long. Karen skated like I thought she would. Nice musicality and edges--- inconsistent and she seems a bit messy to me today. I was sad that Mirai did not land her triple axel (ironically it looked overrotated) but I am happy that she was able to continue on and not underrotate her other jumps.

On the whole, nice competition. (But, still not nearly as good as the other disciplines)

Hope all the ladies kill it on Friday.

Congrats to Alina on WR and winning the SP! :luv17: I woke up at 5 am to watch her and do my voodoo If she wins I am 4/4 for all my favorites winning the individuals! I also loved to see Satoko nice and clean, although her PCS is just a joke to me. I honestly believe that Osmond should be in 2nd here, she was really great today, her speed and height on the jumps are second to none.
I mean, Evgenia is a nice girl and all but her jumps are just so cringey and so extremely laboured, the 2A just comments itself, I think its almost the weakest in the field, and as for the combo I swear I thought she did a 3f-2t because I watched her feet in the slo-mo and she literally did 2 full revs in the air and thats it.
Comparing to Evgenia, Alina's jumps are so light and pleasant, she deserved to win this and I hope she will put up a WR in the long as well

Omg, so happy that Alina finally executed the best SP, peaking at the right moment.

If she were to repeat her consistency with DQ, This will be one of the most worthy Olympic gold, with ZERO flaws in either program!

I was just so captivated by her SP, not a moment of pause, not a moment of hesitation, and she is a true bird, a frightening swan.

This has to be one of my favorite programs ever, unique, artistic, stunningly difficult. I was filled with emotions at the end.

The jumps were difficult but so were her nailed-to-the-rink spins and stsq, all done to very complex highly nuanced music that allows no room for error.

Her programs allow ZERO room for errors and only an athlete like Alina can perform them.:hap85::hap85:

Congratulations Alina! I will try to stay up for the FS tonight, but it's too difficult.

qwertyskates said:

I will try to stay up for the FS tonight, but it's too difficult.

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FS is not tonight

Tolstoj said:

The bonus is there because you do a jump in the 2nd half, and NOT because you have to do X elements before.

Also doing a spin and a level 4 steps sequence in the first half is not nothing, please stop. (and one more spin wouldn't make that much difference anyway)

Low quality (i've already argued that is not true at all): things like the air position, arm variations, the transitions in and out increase the quality of your jump according to the rules.

Reminder for anyone here: before going into these bash fests against the russians, at least check the rules before.

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However it very much looks like ISU didn't think this through before adopting this rule. They introduced it to have more distribution, but having all jumps in the second half (and back-to-back within 30 seconds, no less) is the same kind of distribution as having all of them in the first half.

Moreover, because of that, the Russian's programs were so unbalanced, but judges of course ignored that in their choreography and composition marks.

They should either abolish this rule completely, or understand the full meaning of word distribution, meaning that bonuses shall only be given to jumping elements that have non-jumping elements both in front and after.

Kittosuni said:

1. your statement that backloaders are not doing "much" in the first half of their program is just false. They are fulfilling other required elements that are equally important as the jumps.

2. How are their steps not power consuming when in fact Zagitova does the most feature in her Stsq.

3. If you ever skated, you would know more than the physical demand of backloading, its the mental aspect that's the deal breaker. Yup mental aspect. The area that seem to seperate the good and great skaters.

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I am not the biggest fan of the so called backloading but I skate and I know how demanding step seq. and spins are, I don't get how can anybody say that it's "doing nothing" . It's definitely not nothing, those are required elements and tbh I grew to love Alina's backloading, I mean she is so strong to pull it off and for me it works on her well

I just watched it and well. Alina is untouchable in her TES, due to her difficulty, consistence and backloading. If she's clean, the gold is hers, nobody will be able to compete with that, especially if she keeps receiving THOSE PCS.

Now her PC score is just a big joke. I'm sorry but it's just so GLARING when you watch her and Carolina back to back. She's still very much a junior. Actually, IMO Russia has juniors that are artistically more refined and mature than both Alina and Evgenia. So I'm really sorry, good for them for having hard spins, steps and jumps, but on the level of purely enjoying their skating, they're both far behind girls like Carolina, Satoko, or even Kaitlyn. And it infuriates me that the Russians get PCS for being technically strong. There is TES to award that, for crying out loud.

I openly hate backloading, especially in the SP, and I do think it should be reflected in the CO component.

Generally, in terms of TES, the top 3 should be:
1. Alina
2. Kaitlyn
3. Evgenia

And in terms of PCS:
1. Carolina
2. Satoko
3. Kaitlyn

I am really curious to see what happens with both Alina and Zhenya if Alina wins here. Will they continue? Remember how many incredible little dynamos are coming up from juniors very soon. Maybe not next season, but soon enough.

Why are people taking immediate snapshots of Eteri's reaction to Alina's scores and creating this narrative of Eteri resenting Alina? I just watched extended footage and Eteri looked very pleased (and smug) that her charge had just scored a world record.

russianfan said:

FS is not tonight

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I'm in France, so it's the 22/02 early morning no?

Yuzuruu said:

I am not the biggest fan of the so called backloading but I skate and I know how demanding step seq. and spins are, I don't get how can anybody say that it's "doing nothing" . It's definitely not nothing, those are required elements and tbh I grew to love Alina's backloading, I mean she is so strong to pull it off and for me it works on her well

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I agree completely!:thumbsup::thumbsup:

What I appreciate about Alina's programs is that her jumps and their placement in her programs fit exactly the nuances of the music and choreography.

No one is complaining when all the 3-3 combos (or quads for the men) are placed right in front and have nothing to do with their music or the structure of their program, the narrative, etc, and obviously placed in front for the athlete to have them performed in order to take the psychological and physical stress and tension off the rest of their programs. They all visibly relax after the most difficult jumps are done.

It is much more difficult for the audience to "enter" into the programs when the anticipation for the most difficult jumps are right front and center, and only when they are "out of the way" that the programs truly unfold. That is always the standard, and repeated ad nauseum.

Alina is simply hated for doing what no one else can, daring to skate with that physical and psychological pressure.

I much prefer when the highest scoring and hardest elements are designed to be the climax rather than the entree. The aspect of danger at the climax is also very thrilling.

Alina is a very very tough athlete to do what she does and deserves the extra bonus.:agree:

Hopefully to take care of this backloading business, ISU can introduce a maximum of four jumping passes in the latter half of the program. Choose your best and hardest jumps if you believe the risk is worth the reward.

qwertyskates said:

I'm in France, so it's the 22/02 early morning no?

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No it's early morning on the 23rd, they have a day break in between.