2012 NHK Men's Short Program SP

[Bluebonnet]

Just finished watching Hanyu, Takahashi, and Fernandez's SPs. I agree with the placement. The twice record breaking SP from Hanyu has left me some unsatisfactory. Are you sure that this is the best ever SP from the men?! However, by studying in details of the protocols, I can't find anything even in nitpicking fashion except that 9.25 in SS. Hanyu's performance could be compared with Patrick Chan's record breaking SP performance at 2012 Canadian Nationals. So yes, Hanyu is the rightful world record holder for SP.:thumbsup:

Takahashi was brilliant in performance! I don't mind at all that a flawed Takahashi was placed higher than Fernandez. Like Fernandez as well. 86.23 was great! But somehow, I felt his SP was too long and never ending.

 

[Tonichelle]

Folks, please remember to keep the bickering about each other out of the threads. Use the ignore feature, report posts that are offensive but do not respond and take a thread down! Once both sides get at it, it makes it 10 times worse for everyone. If you have a personal issue with another poster resolve it in PMs, don't let every one suffer through the needless bickering.

 

[evangeline]

But Takahashi’s GOEs for that 3a are not within a reasonable range. With that weak landing his 3a should not have received +1 GOEs and certainly not that +3 GOE, especially if you compare it with Fernandez’ 0 to +1 GOEs. And yes, the scoring needs to be fair. As you know, I was replying to let’s talk, who always argued that Takahashi’s PCS should be X points over other skaters, otherwise she thinks it’s not fair. If Takahashi’s PCS is constantly compared to other skaters’ PCSs to see if the scoring is fair, then the GOEs should also be compared for that reason.

I implied the +3 GOE was unwarranted (it totally was). I thought -1 to 1 GOE was reasonable and explained why, so I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree on that.

UR calls are not subjective. They’re guided by strict rules. Anything having to do with technique is not subjective. Maybe the IN mark in the PCS is the only thing that’s subjective. Other things like SS, TR, weak landing and UR calls are not subjective. No matter what camera angles, a weak landing is a weak landing, and an URed jump is an URed jump. It’s like you say Takahashi’s 3a has a weak landing and someone tells you “no, it’s not weakly landed because I don't think it is. Do you have a screenshot or something showing otherwise? If you don’t provide that, then you’re not having a real discussion.” I was like when I saw your request because Takahashi’s 3lz3t< was as obvious as his weakly landed 3a.

If you think someone needs a screenshot or whatsoever evidence to show the obviously under-roatated 3lz3t and 4t, then maybe you should take screenshots of the 3lz3t and the second 4t in the LP to show that why you think the second 4t is < but the 3lz3t is fully rotated?

Do you seriously believe UR calls are not at least somewhat subjective? If so, why is there so much inconsistency among tech panels across events? Why are there stricter tech callers like Shin Amano who give out UR calls like candy, while at the same time we have the ladies tech panel at last year's 4CC, which was so lenient on not only blatant URs spotted in real time but also wrong-edge calls? Why do we have hundreds of pages on Goldenskate arguing about whether a particular UR call is warranted or not? Why does the ISU's own official tech handbook state that tech callers must keep into account camera angles into their UR calls? Why do you think the official ISU policy is to give skaters the benefit of the doubt when it comes to "doubtful cases"? Surely there would be no doubtful cases if UR calls were not subjective? Are things so black and white? And your point about weak landings--of course a weak landing is a weak landing. Being able to tell that a weak landing exists is fairly objective--but deciding how much the weak should be penalized is not. Why do you think the ISU allows judges a small range for deductions when it comes to weak landings? Why didn't they give a solid objective number to deduct for all weak landings? Because not all weak landings are the same in everyone's eyes, it's a subjective call to see how weak the landing is. The same, I'd argue, applies to many other technical things like SS and TR. Yeah, it's easy to say Skater X has better skating skills than Skater Y, but is it so easy and objective to say how much better Skater X is better than Skater Y? Is Skater X 0.25 better than Skater Y? Or is he 0.50 better? Reasonable minds may differ, and that's where subjectivity comes in.

I asked for a screenshot or basically anything besides mere conclusory statements b/c whether Takahashi's 3Lz-3T was UR or not is not obvious to me. You keep saying it's obvious but I don't see it. It's definitely tight due to Takahashi's tendency to curl his landings after the back ends of his jump combinations, but looks just within rotation to me, and it's official ISU policy to give skaters the benefit of the doubt when it comes to doubtful cases....

 

[deedee1]

^^ (Re deedee's #149 post): Ross may have gotten the idea for his sp costume from a costume Evan wore in a few preseason shows (designed by Vera Wang).

Thanks a lot, Art&Sport, for your explaining about Miner's costume! But I still believe Miner's shirt needs to go.
Same goes to Takahashi. Dai needs a new jacket and shirt which is as refined as his skating.

 

[demarinis5]

Thanks a lot, Art&Sport, for your explaining about Miner's costume! But I still believe Miner's shirt needs to go.
Same goes to Takahashi. Dai needs a new jacket and shirt which is as refined as his skating.

You are funny deedee. Maybe Dai will change back to the white jacket that you loved so much.

 

[deedee1]

Maybe Dai will change back to the white jacket that you loved so much.

Did 'I' really?! Which jacket do you like better (or, less), btw?

I would not mind if Dai is to borrow either Taka's 'Cello songs' green shirt or Yuzuru's 'Parisian Walkways' grey shirt. Well, Dai has to rush to the tailor, to shorten the sleeves first though!
As for SP, I actually do not care what he wears, as far as he hits a quad and all other elements, and can sell that program like no one else can.

But as for his LP costume, I do care. I hope he will change it. At least no gloves, please. His skating and performance ability speak so much volume itself. He really does not need such flashy ala Russian-style costume I believe. So that non Dai fans can concentrate more on his skating, not calling him 'over-the-top'.
However, I love the overall line of his LP costume, because it highlights Dai's much improved 'stretched-out' postures. I also like the gradation of white top down to black bottom. It sort of reflects angel and evil sides of the program perfectly, which I personally see in his music I Pagliacci. So, I would appreciate if he can remove those glittering stitches, purple color and gloves.

Oops, wasn't this a 'Costume thread'? Sorry!

 

[dorispulaski]

We have a Costumes thread!

http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sh...ES-!-COSTUMES-!-Here-we-go&highlight=COSTUMES

You might wish to post costume stuff there! Comments get kind of lost here in the competition threads, once interest moves to the next event.

 

[demarinis5]

^I actually preferred the white jacket because it is more in character of the Stroll than the red jacket. In the 1950's in the US a lot of Country & Western singing
stars including Elvis Presley wore this type of jacket.

As far as his LP costume, I am not crazy about it (it does show Dai's great form though) and IMO it does reflect the character of the program, but compared to
some of other costumes especially Hanyu's LP and Machida's feathers Dai's LP costume is quite tame.

ETA: Sorry Doris will try to keep on topic or move to Costume Thread.

 

[dorispulaski]

That's OK; it can stay here

 

[Aesthetics]

I didn’t like Daisuke’s programs at NHK, but I really liked his red jacket costume-I thought he looked hot in it! Maybe the red jacket looked better live than on tv.

 

[Olympia]

As for SP, I actually do not care what he wears, as far as he hits a quad and all other elements, and can sell that program like no one else can.

You speak for us all, Deedee!

 

[deedee1]

ok...off topic but it's just occurred to me: 'as long as' is more appropriate/suitable idiom in this case, instead of 'as far as', right? :

 

[Violet Bliss]

ok...off topic but it's just occurred to me: 'as long as' is more appropriate/suitable idiom in this case, instead of 'as far as', right? :

Not an English expert but I do know "as long as" would be what you meant, and it bugs me that these days so many people say or write "as far as" without "something/someone is concerned", unless of course it's about a distance.

 

[deedee1]

^;; Thank you so much, SkateFiguring!