2012 NHK Trophy Mens Free Skate

[demarinis5]

I just got to see everyone on TV. Takahashi's long program was the one that moved me the most. (Act surprised.) This isn't to take away from anything Hanyu did; they showed his short and long programs, and obviously the guy's on his way to be a skating giant. But he still skates like a boy (not like a junior skater, I hasten to add, but like someone not yet matured into his power). Daisuke skates like a man, a mature artist and a commanding technician. I can't parse the skating skills and whatnot--that's not how I look at skating. But when I compare things like the footwork and spins of Daisuke to the other skaters in this competition, what I see is Dai's fluidity. His footwork and spins seem to unroll like ribbon, like dance, from somewhere inside the music. All the other skaters--Miner, Fernandez, even Hanyu to a degree--seem to be flinging themselves around in a dutiful sort of way. At times they're almost lumbering around, as if their feet have weights in them. After a few measures, I look away and continue with my task of organizing my sewing materials. (Exception: what an Ina Bauer Hanyu has!) With Daisuke, I'm riveted to the screen. There are a few movements in his spins that I can't even imagine how he made, because they seem to violate the laws of physics. How can he insert that little sideways kick without falling over? At those moments, I think that the force that keeps him upright is the music itself. This guy has something no one else has, and I'll watch him avidly no matter what ranking he attains with his performance. It's pure sorcery. Congratulations to all three medalists! But a special cheer for Daisuke.

This has to be the best post in this thread (for us Dai fans). Well said Olympia!

 

[pitterpatter]

Do you know the reason why Yuzu is staying home?

I think it makes sense for him to stay at home, there are only two weeks left until the GPF and travelling from Japan to Russia is a lot better than going from Sendai to Toronto and back across the ocean to Sochi (especially considering jet lag, etc). I doubt anything major could be accomplished in the 10 days they'd have to work together in Canada, and Yuzuru apparently hasn't been home in a couple months. Maybe he needs to catch up on homework too.

 

[Bluebonnet]

Can anyone enlighten me about why Dai T went back to Morozov.

Because he wants to use Morozov's Russian influence for Sochi Olympics.

While I never will wish bad results on Daisuke, just because I love him so much, a little part of me agrees with that. And I wonder why Morozov cannot create a better program...Swan Lake SP is one of my personal Dai favourites and that's Morozov-work. It hurts so much because Daisuke has so much potential to create something amazing, but this Free is just.....I don't really think Daisuke will win any gold with it.

This free skating is not Morozov's creation. It's Shae-Lynn Bourne's.

 

[Blades of Passion]

99.9% sure Morozov altered the choreography.

 

[wallylutz]

Considering Hanyu won the NHK Trophy, not only that, he placed 1st in the FS with two falls, I found it curious that virutally no one is screaming Takahashi is robbed in the same way with Asada beating Suzuki due to the SP.

I suppose perception is everything. Chan also doubled 3 Triple jumps in his Cup of Russia FS on his way to a blowout win in Moscow just two weeks ago with no dissent among the GS foum participants yet when Asada doubled 3 Triple jumps, and finished 2nd in the FS, it became a scandal... Likewise, the same crowd who would usually decry skater falling more than once within the same program should not win the competition, let alone that portion of the competition as well, is very, very quiet.

This is really confusing. Where is the consistency?

 

[Tonichelle]

This is really confusing. Where is the consistency?

The same question can be made about the skating

 

[wallylutz]

The same question can be made about the skating

That I can usually follow and try my best to explain and clarify in my limited time here. Tell you what, human nature, as demonstrated by the group of posters here, is far more complex it seems than any ISU rules, however complicate they may be.

 

[Mrs. P]

Considering Hanyu won the NHK Trophy, not only that, he placed 1st in the FS with two falls, I found it curious that virutally no one is screaming Takahashi is robbed in the same way with Asada beating Suzuki due to the SP.

I suppose perception is everything. Chan also doubled 3 Triple jumps in his Cup of Russia FS on his way to a blowout win in Moscow just two weeks ago with no dissent among the GS foum participants yet when Asada doubled 3 Triple jumps, and finished 2nd in the FS, it became a scandal... Likewise, the same crowd who would usually decry skater falling more than once within the same program should not win the competition, let alone that portion of the competition as well, is very, very quiet.

This is really confusing. Where is the consistency?

Not the same situation, Wallylutz. Yes Patrick Chan did double three jumps, but he still managed to do two quads and 5 triples. Oda, who was second in the FS, fell on his quad and 7 non UR triples. So basically the jump count of quads + triples is the same, with Patrick winning due to the difficulty of his jumps. And I'd argue that the doubles Patrick did didn't really interrupt the program all that much.

You have a similar situation with Yuzuru, he fell twice, on a jump and a spin. But he still managed to do one clean quad and 7 triples. The fall on the spin was silly, but not super disruptive. The lutz was the biggest problem, and he got marked down as such. Takhashi did a quad and 6 triples and he got by far the highest PCS of the competition.

WIth the ladies you had Mao, who did just 3 UR triples losing to someone that did 6 UR triples. And I argue her jump mistakes were a lot more disruptive, since she sort of jerked her body when she opened up and did the doubles. Again, I have no problem what Akiko scored, but what Mao scored relative to what she put on the ice.

That I can usually follow and try my best to explain and clarify in my limited time here. Tell you what, human nature, as demonstrated by the group of posters here, is far more complex it seems than any ISU rules, however complicate they may be.

Many of the people who are questioning the judging in this situation have done so after reading over the protocol sheets and watching the YouTube videos a billion times (including myself). So believe it or not, most posters are trying to understand. So I don't appreciate this broad stroke being painted on all GS posters based on a few bad apples.

 

[pitterpatter]

Considering Hanyu won the NHK Trophy, not only that, he placed 1st in the FS with two falls, I found it curious that virutally no one is screaming Takahashi is robbed in the same way with Asada beating Suzuki due to the SP.

I suppose perception is everything. Chan also doubled 3 Triple jumps in his Cup of Russia FS on his way to a blowout win in Moscow just two weeks ago with no dissent among the GS foum participants yet when Asada doubled 3 Triple jumps, and finished 2nd in the FS, it became a scandal... Likewise, the same crowd who would usually decry skater falling more than once within the same program should not win the competition, let alone that portion of the competition as well, is very, very quiet.

This is really confusing. Where is the consistency?

Did you watch Dai's FS? He fell as well, and on a 3A that needed to be in combination. He also UR'd and two-footed his second quad, which lost him quite a few points. Add to that the fact that Yuzuru got credit for two quads and two 3As after the halfway mark, and had a big lead heading in the FS, I think its quite clear why he won. I don't know what you're trying to achieve by bringing the Ladies FS argument into this thread... the situations aren't even the same.

 

[wallylutz]

Did you watch Dai's FS? He fell as well, and on a 3A that needed to be in combination. He also UR'd and two-footed his second quad, which lost him quite a few points. Add to that the fact that Yuzuru got credit for two quads and two 3As after the halfway mark, and had a big lead heading in the FS, I think its quite clear why he won. I don't know what you're trying to achieve by bringing the Ladies FS argument into this thread... the situations aren't even the same.

Takahashi fell? I watched the performance live via internet yet I don't recall him falling even once. Interestingly, the protocol supported my recollection as well : http://www.isuresults.com/results/gpjpn2012/gpjpn2012_Men_FS_Scores.pdf

If Takahashi did fall, he would have received a mandatory deduction which he didn't. So why are you saying he fell when he didn't?

So the fall count remains, Hanyu = 2 and Takahashi = 0. Where is the outcry about Hanyu winning the competition and the FS with 2 glaring falls vs. Takahashi: 0 fall FS?

 

[FTnoona]

Takahashi fell? I watched the performance live via internet yet I don't recall him falling even once. Interestingly, the protocol supported my recollection as well : http://www.isuresults.com/results/gpjpn2012/gpjpn2012_Men_FS_Scores.pdf

If Takahashi did fall, he would have received a mandatory deduction which he didn't. So why are you saying he fell when he didn't?

So the fall count remains, Hanyu = 2 and Takahashi = 0. Where is the outcry about Hanyu winning the competition and the FS with 2 glaring falls vs. Takahashi: 0 fall FS?

There is no outcry as strong as the ladies event, but there is anger with Hanyu's scores starting from the SP and carrying onto the FS where some thought Takahashi should have won. Posters have been unhappy with Hanyu's high PCS, coining a new term - Yuzuflation.
Personally, I thought Hanyu did enough to win overall. The performance aspect of his FS might have been bad, but his tes kept him up there.
Who won the FS and overall for you?

 

[Mathman]

I think the difference is that neither Hanyu nor Takahashi skated well, so it's six of one and half dozen of the other. Nothing to get mad about one way of the other.

But the perception is that Mao skated badly and Akiko skated very well indeed, and this was not adequately reflected in the scores.

 

[pitterpatter]

Takahashi fell? I watched the performance live via internet yet I don't recall him falling even once. Interestingly, the protocol supported my recollection as well : http://www.isuresults.com/results/gpjpn2012/gpjpn2012_Men_FS_Scores.pdf

If Takahashi did fall, he would have received a mandatory deduction which he didn't. So why are you saying he fell when he didn't?

So the fall count remains, Hanyu = 2 and Takahashi = 0. Where is the outcry about Hanyu winning the competition and the FS with 2 glaring falls vs. Takahashi: 0 fall FS?

Ah okay, I watched it live via the internet as well, and thought it was counted as a fall since he put his hands down - honest mistake, and I apologize for that. At the same time though, he got -2s and -3s in GOEs and did indeed miss the combo, so falling vs not falling in this case wouldn't have made a huge difference point-wise... am I missing something here? Dai made some significant mistakes, I don't get the emphasis on falling ...

 

[deedee1]

Even though I don’t see any unfair reactions, I still think you don’t have to worry about Javier at this stage. Orser is going back to Toronto with Javier, while Hanyu is staying in Sendai alone without a coach until GPF. So Javier will have Orser’s full attention preparing him for the GPF, and I’m expecting him to do well there. :yes:

Thanks a lot for the information, doctor2014!

During the whole competition, there were lots of fluffs on TV here, I mean, NHK camera crews were all over the place chasing Yuzuru; on hiw way from bus to the arena, backstage shots with his greeting to JSF staff, or his preparing at corridors or in the warming-up room. Yuzuru was accompanied by Mr. Orser all the time, and I was a bit surprised we did not see Javier at all in these fluffs...that's why I was so worried about Javi. I would appreciate if some of you guys understand why I said so...nothing was related to his nationality or personality. :no: Sorry if I offended any of you guys' feelings. I try to be fair and nice as much as possible when I am to leave my thoughts on skaters and/or on-going competitions. With my limited English vocabulary, however, I sometimes feel so hard/helpless to post my comments without bothering other people's feelings. Maybe I should avoid posting any, especially those competitions where my favorite skaters get to attend...

Anyway I am relieved now to know that Javi will have his coach's full attention back in Toronto. Thanks again! :yes: I sincerely hope Javi will have two great skates at GPF, and look forward to seeing his broad/happy/gorgeous smile!!

 

[Kalina]

Thanks a lot for the information, doctor2014!

During the whole competition, there were lots of fluffs on TV here, I mean, NHK camera crews were all over the place chasing Yuzuru; on hiw way from bus to the arena, backstage shots with his greeting to JSF staff, or his preparing at corridors or in the warming-up room. Yuzuru was accompanied by Mr. Orser all the time, and I was a bit surprised we did not see Javier at all in these fluffs...that's why I was so worried about Javi. I would appreciate if some of you guys understand why I said so...nothing was related to his nationality or personality. :no: Sorry if I offended any of you guys' feelings. I try to be fair and nice as much as possible when I am to leave my thoughts on skaters and/or on-going competitions. With my limited English vocabulary, however, I sometimes feel so hard/helpless to post my comments without bothering other people's feelings. Maybe I should avoid posting any, especially those competitions where my favorite skaters get to attend...

Anyway I am relieved now to know that Javi will have his coach's full attention back in Toronto. Thanks again! :yes: I sincerely hope Javi will have two great skates at GPF, and look forward to seeing his broad/happy/gorgeous smile!!

Don't feel guilty! It's not like you said anything offensive, you were just worried.
I saw those fluffs too on youtube, but I didn't worry too much because it's japanese tv, it has no interest in showing Javier backstage. I saw two different fluffs on youtube, one with just Yuzuru and the other with all three top skaters, and in the second one it's shown that when they get off the bus and Orser is in front, he's actually following Javier who got off first. Of course it doesn't mean anything, it's just a way of saying that tv will show you what they want.

 

[giulia95]

I think it makes sense for him to stay at home, there are only two weeks left until the GPF and travelling from Japan to Russia is a lot better than going from Sendai to Toronto and back across the ocean to Sochi (especially considering jet lag, etc). I doubt anything major could be accomplished in the 10 days they'd have to work together in Canada, and Yuzuru apparently hasn't been home in a couple months. Maybe he needs to catch up on homework too.

Javi didn't go back to Spain...

Is Yuzu by himself totally?

 

[pitterpatter]

Javi didn't go back to Spain...

Is Yuzu by himself totally?

Well, Yuzuru staying at home means he doesn't have to travel, and he has a home + rink for the next few weeks anyway ;p. If Javier's gotta fly somewhere, might as well be to Toronto where he can train.

Don't know coach-wise D:, but I'm sure his family's there with him.

 

[Kalina]

Javi didn't go back to Spain...

Is Yuzu by himself totally?

Javi went back to Toronto with Orser. I think Yuzuru is staying in Sendai because he has exams.

 

[bekalc]

The reason a lot of people aren't complaining about Hanyu's win is because Hanyu didn't win because he was given huge PCS over everyone else. Patrick would get PCS in the upper 80s for three fall programs and that's where people would hem and haw. In this program Dai won the PCS mark and Hanyu took the free based on TES. And its understandable Hanyu took it based on TES if you look at the program.

One of the biggest things of anger is when PCS are used to hold up skaters.

 

[FSGMT]

The reason a lot of people aren't complaining about Hanyu's win is because Hanyu didn't win because he was given huge PCS over everyone else. Patrick would get PCS in the upper 80s for three fall programs and that's where people would hem and haw. In this program Dai won the PCS mark and Hanyu took the free based on TES. And its understandable Hanyu took it based on TES if you look at the program.

One of the biggest things of anger is when PCS are used to hold up skaters.

:yes: