2012 NHK Trophy Mens Free Skate

[let`s talk]

People, don't feed the trolls. You're just playing their own game.

You are contrudicting yourself. If you believed yourself, you wouldn't need the post like that at all.

 

[giulia95]

His fate could be different if he were on other hands. But he is not. :

I totally agree with it. Unfortunately, when you’re 17 your fate is not in your hands..

Today Yuzu sang the whole time during the EX and his watery eyes at the end are saying a lot about the kid ...

Anyway I hope he’ll be able to protect himself physically and mentally trying to do his best..it’s already a good sign he was not miserably gasping at the end of the FS like at FT and SA.

 

[kimganos]

I haven't read through this thread yet, because I've been busy, and I managed to avoid the figure skating boards today so that I could watch the men's event in all of its suspense tonight on TV. It was a deep field and it lived up to my expectations. So after just finishing watching the event, I just had a few thoughts.

No one impressed me more at this competition than Ross Miner. However, I have believed since he first won bronze at U.S. Nats a couple seasons back that he was capable of great things. I have him pegged for the next American star that the U.S. is desperately looking for. Some say that it is Richard Dornbush, but Miner is far more consistent than Dornbush in my opinion, and I believe he has that star quality. He should make the World team this season, hopefully. But bronze in this field was quite an accomplishment and I am very happy for him.

After Javier's program, I just wanted to reach through the TV screen and give him a hug. Poor guy. He's capable of so much more than that, I think just the hard fall on that quad must have really thrown him off for the rest of the program. However, I have to admit, I was happy that Ross got the bronze medal over Javi - Javi still makes the GPF, where he has a chance to redeem himself. And he is just so darn charming; I'm well on my way to becoming huge fan

Daisuke skated well, not his best, but still good. His Pagliacci program is definitely growing on me, and I think it's improving. However, while two silvers and making the GPF is good, but I hope it will not hurt his confidence being beaten by two other Japanese men this season. Not the results he was probably looking for, but I think Dai is on the right track to keep improving and hopefully peak at the right time - Worlds.

Yuzuru was also very impressive to me. His short program made me say "wow". He's so adorable and he has so much talent it's crazy - he's the definition of "gifted". His free skate was good, but not great, and I have to say when I saw his scores, I was surprised. I thought they were a little high for those two rather large errors he made. (I know bringing up the word "overscored" is just asking for an argument, but I don't want to argue, I swear!) Yuzuru did deserve to win overall, but I really felt that Daisuke was better in the free skate. However, that's just my opinion after seeing it once, and I don't wish to take anything away from Yuzuru who had a great victory today. He skated well and beating Dai at NHK is quite an accomplishment for him.

Congrats to all the medalists, and better luck to Javier in the Final. Now I'll go back and read the thread, and see if anyone agrees with me

ITA with your knowledgable and fair viewpoint.

 

[Olympia]

I just got to see everyone on TV. Takahashi's long program was the one that moved me the most. (Act surprised.) This isn't to take away from anything Hanyu did; they showed his short and long programs, and obviously the guy's on his way to be a skating giant. But he still skates like a boy (not like a junior skater, I hasten to add, but like someone not yet matured into his power). Daisuke skates like a man, a mature artist and a commanding technician. I can't parse the skating skills and whatnot--that's not how I look at skating. But when I compare things like the footwork and spins of Daisuke to the other skaters in this competition, what I see is Dai's fluidity. His footwork and spins seem to unroll like ribbon, like dance, from somewhere inside the music. All the other skaters--Miner, Fernandez, even Hanyu to a degree--seem to be flinging themselves around in a dutiful sort of way. At times they're almost lumbering around, as if their feet have weights in them. After a few measures, I look away and continue with my task of organizing my sewing materials. (Exception: what an Ina Bauer Hanyu has!) With Daisuke, I'm riveted to the screen. There are a few movements in his spins that I can't even imagine how he made, because they seem to violate the laws of physics. How can he insert that little sideways kick without falling over? At those moments, I think that the force that keeps him upright is the music itself. This guy has something no one else has, and I'll watch him avidly no matter what ranking he attains with his performance. It's pure sorcery. Congratulations to all three medalists! But a special cheer for Daisuke.

 

[itoja]

^ Beautifully said!:agree:
Even my suffering husband (2 hours of skating in TV ) stopped when Takahashi skated and said " This guy is something else!"

 

[emma]

^totally agree! I really just love Daisuke and have to say, oh my goodness it is so much better on tv than on my computer screen!

Also, yes, Hanyu has an amaizing ina bauer.

 

[lavender]

i just got to see everyone on tv. Takahashi's long program was the one that moved me the most. (act surprised.) this isn't to take away from anything hanyu did; they showed his short and long programs, and obviously the guy's on his way to be a skating giant. But he still skates like a boy (not like a junior skater, i hasten to add, but like someone not yet matured into his power). Daisuke skates like a man, a mature artist and a commanding technician. I can't parse the skating skills and whatnot--that's not how i look at skating. But when i compare things like the footwork and spins of daisuke to the other skaters in this competition, what i see is dai's fluidity. His footwork and spins seem to unroll like ribbon, like dance, from somewhere inside the music. All the other skaters--miner, fernandez, even hanyu to a degree--seem to be flinging themselves around in a dutiful sort of way. At times they're almost lumbering around, as if their feet have weights in them. After a few measures, i look away and continue with my task of organizing my sewing materials. (exception: What an ina bauer hanyu has!) with daisuke, i'm riveted to the screen. There are a few movements in his spins that i can't even imagine how he made, because they seem to violate the laws of physics. How can he insert that little sideways kick without falling over? At those moments, i think that the force that keeps him upright is the music itself. This guy has something no one else has, and i'll watch him avidly no matter what ranking he attains with his performance. It's pure sorcery. Congratulations to all three medalists! But a special cheer for daisuke.

ita......

 

[deedee1]

I appreciate Olympia's post, too. Thank you Olympia for always trying to find and say nice things about figure skating and skaters! :yes:, which sometimes I may fail to do so these days...

Spending another day to calm myself and to rewatch performances I liked from the first view, I have decided not to make my comments on any points or placements, especially Mens Free AND Ladies Final placements .

A few my thoughts.
-Loved Miner's, Reynolds', and Takahashi's LP (sorry, I AM a fan, as you guys know ) as whole programs.

I agree Miner has a potential to be US Champ this season a the soonest, only if Abbott is to have a few mistakes with his jumps or levels on spins. Ross needs to a lot of work, I believe, on his posture especially upper body movements, though.

Reynolds tries to improve as a skater and as a performer. I am glad I could see some improvements in his skating this season again. He makes me smile. Hope he gets enough hights with his jumps, so that 'professionally-trained' judges (unlike myself who are untrained and know nothing about figure skating) can concentrate on AND get to appreciate more of his skating, no nitpicking on URs DGs only.

Takahashi's LP was better than at CoC, but I not as good as at JO yet, I thought. Two more PCS points (or two less PCS points for the other skaters) would have been appreciated by me, thus that can properly refect the audience reactions right after performances of the two skaters in question that night but does not affect the final placements in the end. Oh well...

I am worried about Fernandez. He appeared unfocused, less motivated and a bit despressed the whole competition. And I may blame it to Orser, if I am allowed to do so. I did not like at all his behaviers/reactions between Yuzuru and Javier. Treat your skaters EQUALLY, please! Javier may end up leaving Orser sooner or later, I fear...:no:

 

[Tinymavy15]

I have to agree that Javier seems to be quickly being demoted for the young wunderkid. I am just getting to dislike Orser more and more...he seems to be constantly in search of the next big star.

 

[Tonichelle]

I have to agree that Javier seems to be quickly being demoted for the young wunderkid. I am just getting to dislike Orser more and more...he seems to be constantly in search of the next big star.

perhaps still chasing the gold?

Javier skates way too much like Brian... airplane arms (with cupped hands) and all...

 

[pitterpatter]

I have to say when I saw his scores, I was surprised. I thought they were a little high for those two rather large errors he made. (I know bringing up the word "overscored" is just asking for an argument, but I don't want to argue, I swear!) Yuzuru did deserve to win overall, but I really felt that Daisuke was better in the free skate. However, that's just my opinion after seeing it once, and I don't wish to take anything away from Yuzuru who had a great victory today. He skated well and beating Dai at NHK is quite an accomplishment for him.

I see your point and I love Dai too, but I don't think he was better than Yuzuru in the free - Dai UR'd and two footed his second quad (which made it worth less than Yuzuru's 3F) and fell on his second 3A, which needed to be in combination. Yuzuru OTOH got credit for two quads, had two nice 3As in the second half, and generally hit his jumps except for the lutz at the end. I think the PCS gap was about right as well - Dai's FS this year doesn't really bring out his best, and the first part of the program is a bit empty. That said, he's definitely way more developed artistically, and his performance built up to the end, which is accounted for in the 4+ pt PCS difference. If you drop Yuzuru's PCS by even 2 pts, that puts him in the same PCS range as Miner/Fernandez: his free isn't as strong as his short (his short would be hard to match) and he does lose steam toward the end, but its chock full of transitions and imo his SS are superior to theirs.

Anyway, I'm not looking for an argument either, just wanted to put my two cents in . I'm actually hoping Dai kills it in the GPF (he can win if he does) and that his programs will grow on me. No doubt the men will be bringing it in the Final, its gonna be a super competition.

 

[yude]

https://plus.google.com/11455836089...7t97o#114558360894796933551/posts/HhqM1G7t97o

Javier seems to be a nice guy.

 

[LRK]

https://plus.google.com/11455836089...7t97o#114558360894796933551/posts/HhqM1G7t97o

Javier seems to be a nice guy.

Agreed - thanks for posting that. I wonder if there are any quotes from him after the free? One does wonder what went wrong, exactly?

 

[let`s talk]

I just got to see everyone on TV. Takahashi's long program was the one that moved me the most. (Act surprised.) This isn't to take away from anything Hanyu did; they showed his short and long programs, and obviously the guy's on his way to be a skating giant. But he still skates like a boy (not like a junior skater, I hasten to add, but like someone not yet matured into his power). Daisuke skates like a man, a mature artist and a commanding technician. I can't parse the skating skills and whatnot--that's not how I look at skating. But when I compare things like the footwork and spins of Daisuke to the other skaters in this competition, what I see is Dai's fluidity. His footwork and spins seem to unroll like ribbon, like dance, from somewhere inside the music. All the other skaters--Miner, Fernandez, even Hanyu to a degree--seem to be flinging themselves around in a dutiful sort of way. At times they're almost lumbering around, as if their feet have weights in them. After a few measures, I look away and continue with my task of organizing my sewing materials. (Exception: what an Ina Bauer Hanyu has!) With Daisuke, I'm riveted to the screen. There are a few movements in his spins that I can't even imagine how he made, because they seem to violate the laws of physics. How can he insert that little sideways kick without falling over? At those moments, I think that the force that keeps him upright is the music itself. This guy has something no one else has, and I'll watch him avidly no matter what ranking he attains with his performance. It's pure sorcery. Congratulations to all three medalists! But a special cheer for Daisuke.

:agree: Olympia!

I wonder if there are any quotes from him after the free? One does wonder what went wrong, exactly?

I couldn't find any quotes of Javi after FS, simply because he wasn't at the press confirence of medalists. Here is the video of Yutaka's room before Gala where Javi is interviewed at aorund 19:30. He speaks English there, so it's understandable, but he doesn't give any comments and/or explanations about his FS, just some usual stuff: www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWXrOV8NrNE

Some quotes from Dai and Yuzu after FS (@ppsk8):
Yuzu:
"good 1st and tired 2nd half. fall an spin - unacceptable, but still made my way in FS"
"really happy 4 Japanese qualified for Final, which looks not "away game".
Dai:
"Yuzuru was strong. It's a pity that I made mistakes… but I got great vibes from crowds."
"a little time left, as a competitor - I guess, so every single moment is of such importance."
Ross at the press conference:
"well, very happy that I'm not a Japanese male Figure skater. (smiles) There're a lot good guys competing for 3 spots(of NHK), it's very impressive to see how strong the skaters are, so NHK is always good to come, feel always pretty good with Japanese Men, I think it's pretty cool to come here to skate with these guys, I would like to say "congratulations"(smiling at Yuzuru and Daisuke)."

 

[Kalina]

Agreed - thanks for posting that. I wonder if there are any quotes from him after the free? One does wonder what went wrong, exactly?

No quotes yet from him, but Orser was interviewed by CBC after the free skate: here

About Orser giving more attention to one or the other, I think nobody can't say that with certainty after just one competition. We'd have to be there and watch them train everyday. Javi seemed pretty happy in interviews and said that they were a group like the Detroit Skating Club now, and he did win his first GP just one week later of Hanyu beating the WR for the first time. So, I hope nothing will change for him and that he'll receive the attention he needs. He's a very nice guy, a great athlete and a great sportsman, IMO.

 

[Bluebonnet]

MEN'S FREE SKATE - VIDEOS & RESULT

1. Yuzuru HANYU (JPN) - 261.03 Free Skate
2. Daisuke TAKAHASHI (JPN) - 251.51 Free Skate
3. Ross MINER (USA) - 235.37 Free Skate
4. Javier FERNANDEZ (ESP) - 232.78 Free Skate
5. Richard DORNBUSH (USA) - 217.56 Free Skate
6. Kevin REYNOLDS (CAN) - 216.26 Free Skate
7. Sergei VORONOV (RUS) - 214.88 Free Skate
8. Adam RIPPON (USA) - 210.47 Free Skate
9. Andrei ROGOZINE (CAN) - 182.39 Free Skate

Thank you so much!

Haven't finished reading the thread yet. Just watched top four skaters.

First of all, wowwww to Ross Miner! The only clean program from the top four and with a 4S! Ross even got +GOEs for his 4S! Good for you, Ross! And Ross and Fernandez have adopted Chan's method on 3Lz-1Lo-3S (Fernandez's was 3F-1Lo-3S). See how quickly these guys have learnt!

Hanyu's LP does nothing to me. But I am amazed by his abilities on jumps and high TES. When all the things have been counted, even with falls, Hanyu won fair and square. Suck it up, the nay sayers!

Takahashi was very good. But like I've said in another thread, watering down the program around the big jumps might be the only way he could do to put two quads into one program. I like his long line stretchings in this program. But I agree that it is a departure from his usual style which was quite unique and narrow in variety.

I love Fernandez's Charlie Chaplin! He was brilliant in portraying the character! To me, for four and a half minuts, Fernandez IS Charlie Chaplin! That hard fall was so scary!!! His legs must be shaking so that he made several more mistakes after that. I'm amazed that he could still jump after that fall.

I quickly went through a few pages of this thread, after watching their programs and K&Cs, I'm puzzled on some of the remarks in this thread about Oser's "unfair" reactions in treating Hanyu and Fernandez. I've seen nothing wrong with them.

 

[emdee]

I quickly went through a few pages of this thread, after watching their programs and K&Cs, I'm puzzled on some of the remarks in this thread about Oser's "unfair" reactions in treating Hanyu and Fernandez. I've seen nothing wrong with them.

ITA.

From what either Fernandez or Hanyu have said that they seem to be a good group even learning from each other and I am sure pushing each other forward.

i also didnt understand one poster's comment that Brian is after the next best star. From what I understand in both Hanyu and Fernandez's case they or their feds approached Brian!

 

[doctor2014]

I quickly went through a few pages of this thread, after watching their programs and K&Cs, I'm puzzled on some of the remarks in this thread about Oser's "unfair" reactions in treating Hanyu and Fernandez. I've seen nothing wrong with them.

I don’t see Orser’s unfair reactions, either.

I am worried about Fernandez. He appeared unfocused, less motivated and a bit despressed the whole competition. And I may blame it to Orser, if I am allowed to do so. I did not like at all his behaviers/reactions between Yuzuru and Javier. Treat your skaters EQUALLY, please! Javier may end up leaving Orser sooner or later, I fear...:no:

Even though I don’t see any unfair reactions, I still think you don’t have to worry about Javier at this stage. Orser is going back to Toronto with Javier, while Hanyu is staying in Sendai alone without a coach until GPF. So Javier will have Orser’s full attention preparing him for the GPF, and I’m expecting him to do well there. :yes:

 

[Bluebonnet]

i also didnt understand one poster's comment that Brian is after the next best star. From what I understand in both Hanyu and Fernandez's case they or their feds approached Brian!

Exactly! By the way, some Takahashi ubers' hatred on anything Canadian is so obvious!

 

[giulia95]

Orser is going back to Toronto with Javier, while Hanyu is staying in Sendai alone without a coach until GPF. :

Do you know the reason why Yuzu is staying home?