2014 Cup of China Short Dance 11/07

[elif]

I really want to understand how Capellini/Lanotte's twizzles got 0.48 positive GOE? ISU should use this in judge training program. You can't do more clear negative GOE element, without a fall.

I don't want to bother judges with small thing (!?) like ISU GOE/PCS book, but it says:

Execution not simultaneous:

one Twizzle reduce 1 grade

two Twizzles no higher than -1
Execution of Turn incorrect: (linked Three Turns, Pirouettes, scrapped, skidded, etc.):

one Twizzle incorrect no higher than 0

two or more Twizzles incorrect no higher than -1

 

[sisinka]

Don't you think judges shouldn't give level4 to twizzles to Capellini/Lanotte and Chock/Bates? Their difficult feature is ''clear change of side: both partners cross pattern at least once during the rotations*''

Capellini/Lanotte
Capellini front of the Lanotte. Luca cross Anna's pattern but Anna does not. She twizzles normally, nothing was in her way.
http://youtu.be/b9IxTbkPZ_8?t=54s
Chock/Bates
Chock front of to Bates. Evan cross Madison's pattern but Madison does not. She twizzles normally, nothing was in her way.
http://youtu.be/h3_CCXXhXhM?t=1m14s

Skater who twizzle at back does change of side and cross pattern. Skater who twizzle at front just twizzle normally.

I agree that this variation is less difficult than when both partners are crossing and creating a number 8 from their patterns. But also this is the opportunity how rules can be explained - poor image of pattern of C&L...

...you can see that they both cross their pattern although it is only Luca who is moving on another side.

I think that people who created new rules didn't realise that although this way can be used for crossing pattern, but I hope that it will be corrected next year because 1) it is really too easy and it doesn't deserve a status of difficult moment, 2) it look very bad and not elegant.

 

[Alba]

Sisinka: What do you think about I&Z?

 

[bekalc]

At CoC maybe. But in a while there will be no question, IMO.

I disagree. I think this French team has future World Champs all over them. They match wonderfully and he in particular is spectacular. The French are tipped to rise through the ranks quickly.. Listen to the Eurosport commentators again.. This French team is going places. And no I don't think I/z are better that could change but not right now.

 

[rosacotton]

The French and Shibs were the highlights for me. Looking forward to the free dance!

 

[elif]

I agree that this variation is less difficult than when both partners are crossing and creating a number 8 from their patterns. But also this is the opportunity how rules can be explained - poor image of pattern of C&L...

...you can see that they both cross their pattern although it is only Luca who is moving on another side.

No. I still don't understand how Anna crossing any pattern. She just goes straight ahead. How this is any different than normal twizzles? :think: Behind her, Luca sure changes sides but this have zero (0) effect on Anna's twizzles. If that is acceptable, then I want a team to do this version, just to troll technical panel and fans

 

[Mattieu]

I disagree. I think this French team has future World Champs all over them. They match wonderfully and he in particular is spectacular. The French are tipped to rise through the ranks quickly.. Listen to the Eurosport commentators again.. This French team is going places. And no I don't think I/z are better that could change but not right now.

I totally agree Papadakis/Cizeron rock , they are the complete package and will win many, many medals for France :yay:

 

[bramweld]

When do the dancers practice next? Would love to get a peak at I/Z's FD.

 

[chuckm]

I/Z skate next at home in Russia, so of course their scores are going to go up! They are competing against former partners Victoria and Nikita and seeds Chock/Bates and Coomes/Buckland. You can be sure at least one of the reconstituted teams (if not both) will be on the podium.

 

[Alba]

I/Z skate next at home in Russia, so of course their scores are going to go up! They are competing against former partners Victoria and Nikita and seeds Chock/Bates and Coomes/Buckland. You can be sure at least one of the reconstituted teams (if not both) will be on the podium.

Each have their own to take care, I suppose. SA, SC, CoR.
What goes around comes around.

 

[Mao88]

SHORT DANCE - VIDEOS & RESULT - updated

1. Maia SHIBUTANI / Alex SHIBUTANI (USA) - 65.20 Short Dance, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy, 4th Copy
2. Anna CAPPELLINI / Luca LANOTTE (ITA) - 62.70 Short Dance, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy, 4th Copy
3. Gabriella PAPADAKIS / Guillaume CIZERON (FRA) - 62.12 Short Dance, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy, 4th Copy
4. Elena ILINYKH / Ruslan ZHIGANSHIN (RUS) - 60.48 Short Dance, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy, 4th Copy
5. Alexandra PAUL / Mitchell ISLAM (CAN) - 56.46 Short Dance, 2nd Copy
6. Shiyue WANG / Xinyu LIU (CHN) - 49.50 Short Dance, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy
7. Yiyi ZHANG / Nan WU (CHN) - 44.90 Short Dance, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy
8. Yue ZHAO / Xun ZHENG (CHN) - 41.88 Short Dance, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy

 

[Snow63]

I/Z skate next at home in Russia, so of course their scores are going to go up! They are competing against former partners Victoria and Nikita and seeds Chock/Bates and Coomes/Buckland. You can be sure at least one of the reconstituted teams (if not both) will be on the podium.

It doesn't mean they will be on the podium undeserved, right?(IF they will be on the podium, and that's a big IF). You didn't even see them skating yet, but already started to make some assumptions and even statements. We should just wait and see.

 

[sisinka]

Maia Shibutani & Alex Shibutani:

Twizzles Level 4:
…nice, but I would like to see better ice coverage…

Step Sequence Level 3:
…many light edges, some edges under question, needs better and deeper knee work…

Paso Doble Level 3 (bad timing in Key Point 1, other Key Points counted):
…in Key Point 1 Alex looks to lift his Right free leg a little bit sooner in slide steps (he is going into full extension of free leg and in the same moment he already starts to lift free leg, I think it was premature a little bit)
…Key Points 2 and 3 are not very well seen from camera angle (this time a person who works with cameras is not doing the best job as to allowing to watch all edges properly)…

Partial Step Sequence Level 3 (Key Point 3 not counted):
…in Key Point 1 Maia went into Step 12 on Left Backward Inside edge a little bit later – but Key Point was counted…
…in Key Point 3 Maia took a lot of time until she changed from Right Forward Outside edge into Left Backward Inside edge, Alex was already in Inside edge, Maia also spent plenty of time on Right Forward Inside edge (in rules there must be a moment in it only)…
…in both Paso Doble parts Maia had very good free leg extension in slide steps…

As to presentation:

I like first part of the dance more than last time, it has better dynamics in some movements, I appreciate that Maia get rid of big smile typical for most of dancers, which really don’t suit to Spanish dances. During Step Sequence which is full of expressive beats – In noticed some arm movements which were dynamic and sharp into those beats, it looked great, I would increase that number of arm movements.

In Paso Doble steps the couple is suddenly rather smooth, but Paso Doble needs to be passionate and sharp, which is not in production of Maia & Alex yet. Thanks to it the dance starts to loose. The end after last Key Point 3 should gradate and it didn’t happen, it once again needs more passionate and dynamic moves, at least arm moves.

I see an improvement in keeping the rhythm during Paso Doble steps, very well done.

Overall better that in Skate America, I liked it.

 

[sisinka]

Anna Cappellini & Luca Lanotte:

Twizzles Level 3:
…I liked first and third Set, it had nice flow, the second Set was not clean looking at Luca’s blade, he went through toe pick and the Level reduction was there…
…arm position in second Set of Twizzles were ALMOST 4 rotation, but Technical panel counted it probably…I think that it should be rather Level 2 Twizzles than Level 3…

Paso Doble Level 3 (Key Point 3 not counted):
…in Key Point 3 – there was wrong camera angle, Anna’s blades were behind Luca
…Key Point 1 and 2 – nice edges…but I would say that Anna’s left leg was not fully extended but thanks to skirt it was not well seen (in Pattern for Paso Doble there is a part: “Slide steps….They are skated on the flat with both blades on the ice and with the free foot sliding closely past the skating foot to full extension.“ …

Partial Step Sequence Level 2 (only Key Point 1 counted)…
…Anna’s edges in Key Point 1 were nice, once again left knee problem – not full extension…but this Key Point 1 was counted…
…Luca didn’t execute good slide steps in Key Point 2, I would look for mistake in Anna’s last step in Key Point 3 – too short time on Left leg (but once again not good camera angle)…

Step Sequence Level 2:
…some quite nice edges, some light edges, some no edge moment, one Anna’s hoop in Counter towards the end of Step Sequence…
… in One Foot Section Anna executed a low quality of Double Twizzle with second rotation done on one place (so a Piruette)…maybe mainly this caused fall to Level 2 (in Level 3 steps each partner must execute clean Double Twizzle)…

As to presentation:

I don’t know where to start.

I don’t mind the dress, if it doesn’t mind Anna in skating, she looks lovely in it and some Flamenco costumes may look like that. I mind Anna’s big smiling all the time which is not suitable for Spanish dance. Emotions – yes, big emotions – yes, but not big smile from ear to ear.

Paso Doble is described like two quarters dance, if you try to count in Rondo Capriccioso Anna and Luca uses, it will be One-Two-Three….this rhythm is changed into Paso Doble steps into two quarters rhythm but it sounds strange and. That is why I don’t like the music choice.

Head bent forward…upper body bent forward many times…overall body posture is far to Spanish dancers body posture. I see a temperament, but it is an Italian temperament. I don’t see any tension or passion or drama which is needed for Spanish dancers.

I don’t understand many moments in choreography which are not in Spanish dance style. I don’t know what choreographer wanted to say with it and in what moment it should look like Spanish dance. I remember that Anna & Luca skated Original Dance on Italian Opera music and frankly this choreography is much similar to Italian Opera than to Spanish dance.

I feel sorry for the couple, because this is choreographer’s big mistake, they only try to interpret it.

 

[Snow63]

I totally agree Papadakis/Cizeron rock , they are the complete package and will win many, many medals for France :yay:

I'll be glad for them. Honest. But I don't think they technically or artistically better than I/Z or even Y/M, who will be seniors next year. But they are young and talented, so I don't see any reason why they could not be better from competition to competition.

 

[sisinka]

Gabriella Papadakis & Guillaume Cizeron:

Paso Doble Level 4 (all Key Points counted):
…I would say that also Gabriella didn’t extend her Left leg in Step 9 like Anna, but overall having such long skirt it is hard to notice it when you don’t see properly knees…

Partial Step Sequence Level 3 (Key Point 1 not counted):
…once again Gabriella didn’t extend her left leg in Step 9, this time is was very visible…probably this leaded to loss of Key Point 1…

Step Sequence Level 2:
…bad change of edge by Guillaume in One Foot Section in Counter – almost hoop, some no edge turns, light edges…

Twizzles Level 4:
…nice ice coverage in the first Set, nice third Set…

How about Guillaume‘s fall at the end of program? He finishes at knees, but this time he lost control and majority of his body were on buttocks. No deduction? Why?

Although the couple improved in technique since last season, it is visible, they are still poorer technicians on the level plus minus around or between Coomes & Buckland and Cappellini & Lanotte. This stops me to be enthusiastic too much about the couple and their this season results.

I realise that the fact they are French number 1 means that their Federation will make a big push as to results and I agree that in terms of Presentation the couple is top 5 at Europeans especially thanks to great SD, but I persist on saying that couple must be strong on both of presentation and technique to be in top. And lack of good technique minds me talking about this couple. In transitions there are no deep edges, not very good technical skating.

I expect that couple will keep improving next seasons and future can be very star looking like, but now they should work so much on improving their basic Skating Skills.

As to presentation:

The skirt – I like in both Lena and Gabriella’s case that girl uses skirt, I take work with skirt like one of things which belongs to Spanish dances. Working with skirt is more difficult on the ice because skaters are doing different leg movements while skating and there is a speed, but…in Gabriella’s case I would recommend to learn how to work with skirt better. Every time the girl takes skirt into hands she puts it up so much, then next few second we had the Spanish lady propagating an underwear…and this doesn’t belong to Spanish dancing. Lena had also skirt up too much in one moment while doing some rotation but in most of time she works with skirt much better than Gabriella. 1:0 for Lena.

Great choreography and very very good interpretation. In future I would like to see more inner tension in the first part of the dance, more passion. In comparison with previous competitions, I saw a very good gradation in last part of the dance – Step Sequence, it looked great.

I will dissapoint Guillaume’s fans, I always took Gabriella like the leader not matter how many technical mistakes she did. In my opinion Guillaume needs to be more expressive and “visible“ in movements, to be more “macho“. I don’t have a feeling that Guillaume leads Gabriella, for me he is not the one who puts direction.

The couple kept the overall rhythm in Paso Doble steps very well.

Overall great dance.

 

[sisinka]

Sisinka: What do you think about I&Z?

Elena Ilinykh & Ruslan Zhiganshin:

Step Sequence Level 3:
…I didn’t find any difficult turn with any problem, all edges looked clean, many deep edges, some lighter edges…
…this couple are those who looks to be the most close to achieve Level 4 Step Sequence, their edge‘s work is great, this is a great example of how can couple with great Skating Skills increase speed while doing edge’s work…
…somebody from Russian fans mentioned not always synchro work in those steps, yes, there were some parts when synchro was not perfect (but I must notice that every couple had some not good synchro parts in steps)…why Russian fans complain about synchro in case of Lena & Ruslan while other couples who are out of synchro also don’t bother them, well…being strict to all home teams is probably something like a National custom…
…GOE about 0 or +1 are not enough for such edge’s work and gliding, no matter some out of synchro moments, this was +2 worth Step Sequence…

Twizzles Level 4:
…very good ice coverage in first Set, poorer in second Set and small in third Set, they need to keep body strenghtened in the third Set also…
…they are executing first two Sets on one leg, this is very difficult because you must do everything on standing leg – you must stop rotation after the first Set then change the edge and position of free leg and direction of rotation going into the second Set and you must be continuously moving forward in this second Set…mainly because of difficulty of these Twizzles, there was not a synchro between the exit of first Set and entering into second Set…
…out of synchro in third Set of Twizzles…

Paso Doble Pattern Level 2 (only Key Point 1 counted):
…Key Point 1 – lovely edges…
…Key Point 2 – Ruslan’s Open Mohawk…second edge was light and change of legs was not good…
…Key Point 3 – I saw all edges clean, cross steps OK, swing movement OK, maybe Lena’s last step on Left Backward Inside edge was light – maybe there was a reason to put down this Key Point, but I think that everything was OK…

…it is true that in Paso Doble Pattern there is visible that the couple don’t skate like one…they skate together not for long plus their former partners had different somatotype – so there is suddenly a different level of arm position, the partner doesn’t skate at identical place like previous partner did etc. …it will need some time to get used to new partner…

Partial Step Sequence Level 3 (Key Point 1 not counted):
…all edges good, but Lena forgot the extend fully her Left leg in Step 9 and that probably caused the loss of Key Point 1 (you must have full extension of free leg)…

Lift Level 4:
…executed without problems and very fixed position on one leg made by Ruslan…no shaking…but many GOE 0 from judges…I guess that is a sad consequence of legend about Ruslan - how poor in lifts he is (created in previous season)…but I didn’t see a reason for this today…

As to presentation:

I love when the couple skates on 120% and they really did.

They kept the rhythm in Paso Doble steps very well.

This is the most passionate short dance I saw this season. Great choreography once again.

In comparison with Gabriella & Guillaume, Lena & Ruslan are more passionate and I would say even wild in presentation. Gabriella & Guillaume shows a dance with Spanish feeling, drama and I would say with a little bit of dark and dangerous passion in it. While Lena & Ruslan are like fire – coloured and with flashes of lights. I take G&C’s SD like one unit dance, it gradates towards the end, while I&Z have more highlights during a program, a moments where their presentation starts to take breath. The music cuts help to create this feeling but I think that most of couples wouldn’t be able to express it so well.

I see an improvement in Lena’s dance, she is not fully comfortable (the same for Ruslan), because there are still millions of things they must concentrate on - like a new couple not fully get used to each other…plus they must dance…but I never saw her so passionate. Ruslan has naturally more passion inside and he is more dynamic skater in my opinion, but together they created great couple, they fit each other perfectly.

What I like a lot is the fact that Ruslan is the leader, I always think that is should be a man…and Spanish dances need male leader.

And I also think that great dancer should protect, support and present his lady. Ruslan does it and Lena looks comfortable with that. I was an anti-fan of Nikita’s overacting about presenting Lena at practises and before programs…I though it was too much and very Red Carpet looking like acting attitude. Ruslan’s presenting of Lena - this is much more natural and real looking in my eyes.

After watching the couple, I have high expectations from them, I want to see them improve in technique, to show even more thrilling performances. Although their spacing is much less big then is case of Stepanova & Bukin, and not bigger than in case of some other high level dance couples, I would also like to see them skating more close. And yes, this is another couple who can dance (at least in SD).

Overall very good job, very good in technique no matter lost levels, great Skating Skills showed by both of them, great presentation.

 

[sisinka]

Putting all top 4 couples together…and compare their Component mark…

Skating Skills: C&L – 8.25 points, S&S – 8.05 points, I&Z – 7.40 points, P&C – 7.35 points.

In reality the best skating skills have I&Z, not like usual Lena’s 9.43 points, because they need to work on getting synchro all the time, but with Anna & Luca getting 8.25, it should be at least 8.50 points. S&S looks OK in case that C&L would get around 7.70 points, P&C around 7.30 points.

Interpretation: C&L – 8.60 points, S&S – 8.10 points, P&C – 7.70 points, I&Z – 7.65 points
Choreography: C&L – 8.55 points, S&S – 8.10 points, P&C and I&Z – 7.80 points
Performance: C&L – 8.50 points, S&S – 8.25 points, I&Z – 7.75 points, P&C – 7.70 points

In my opinion Interpretation, Choreography and Performance Components were on the same level for I&Z and P&C – a very high level, with some minor differences probably for P&C who looked more like one with better synchro. S&S following those two previous couples. I would put C&L on last place with not very high marks.

 

[Snow63]

sisinka, so you think tech panel did their job good this time?

Edit: and thanks.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I finally got to watch I/Z skate. Much better than I expected and my god is Elena full of fire or what. Something just feels right with them to me. The slow motion replays really show what performers these two are and during the lift....oh Elena