2014 Skate Canada Ladies FS 11/01

[minze]

ita!

Agree

 

[Meoima]

Other than the small jumps, what weaknesses does Satoko have compared to Anna?
I think Satoko is far superior in everything else she does.

Small jumps and tiny frame which makes she look junior-ish. I also think she was underscored in PCS here but to be frankly judges are also human. Standing beside Anna Pogo, Satoko look so small and tiny while Anna looks so mature. To be frankly, Anna looks even more mature than Adelina IMO.
Anna might be sloopy but she has huge jumps and fierceness and her looks help a lot (bigger presence on ice). And her package this year is not that bad.
Not to mention jumps are the elements that get the highest scores.

 

[Skater Boy]

I wonder if Ashley took out the lutz because she is working on her edge? That would explain the edge calls on her flips this competition she has never received before.
Either way, if she can get the lutz edge to a point where they only call it as an ! that would really help her. Then she could add back in the 3Lo+2A combo and the 3F+2T+2T.
I actually didn't mind her watered down content here - she needed to get her confidence back after that disaster at JO. However, it will be a problem if we don't see her add the lutz back in this fall.

I think the problem is not just the lutz but she is twofooting and uring more thanever it seems. Plus her programs aren't that spectacular. Still she medalled.

 

[Red Helicopter]

After FS, I have to say that despite Anna and Satoko are both 16 years old, the difference between them on ice is incredible huge. Anna looks like young lady while Satoko is still very talented child and her skating still makes impression of a junior skater. Anna's perfomance on ice is quite expressive, she feels the music and follows it in every step and every movement. Her jumps and even spins are matching musical structure perfectly: check 3Lz-3T and 3Lo-Lo-3S combinations for example where each of four jumps is stressed by music, or her combo spin where EVERY change of position and variation perfectly fits the music. Or, finally, her rich step sequence that expresses so well an emptional part of a music. This is not just a great job of choreographer, this requires also significant skills of skater to listen and follow the music and express it on ice. This time Anna's FS left really great impression from this point of view.
As for Satoko, apart from impression of a child on ice, I think that music chosen is too difficult for her, she doesn't feel music rhytm and structure, especially when music goes faster and becomes more expressive - she really skates off the music in these parts of a program. But she did well at her level and I suppose she could become a more mature skater in a few years. But for sure her jump tecnique need to be improved, URs can become huge problem when she'll grow up.

 

[Skater Boy]

Why are you turning this into an American vs. Russian thing? The Russian women are the leading force in their discipline right now. I don't see anyone contesting that.

Sorry folks in no way I am suggesting is this a USA v Russia thing but the criticisms have been really heavy against the Russians and yes, sometimes Americans. I think we need to realize these are young people trying to do their best. Obviously if they had the solution they would do it - no one intentionally not relate to music, falls, ur, miss edges etc. We are a very opinionated bunch; only diehards talk like this - sadly most of the world could care less between a flutz and a lutz or the perfect bielleman. There is no perfect skater or skater type. I think personally Michelle deserved to lose early on - not only did she skate like a girl but the jumps though rotated were awkward - worse then Tara's - it was darn unattractive. flailingarms and legs spinning crazy fast in the air. lol

 

[ks777]

After FS, I have to say that despite Anna and Satoko are both 16 years old, the difference between them on ice is incredible huge. Anna looks like young lady while Satoko is still very talented child and her skating still makes impression of a junior skater. Anna's perfomance on ice is quite expressive, she feels the music and follows it in every step and every movement. Her jumps and even spins are matching musical structure perfectly: check 3Lz-3T and 3Lo-Lo-3S combinations for example where each of four jumps is stressed by music, or her combo spin where EVERY change of position and variation perfectly fits the music. Or, finally, her rich step sequence that expresses so well an emptional part of a music. This is not just a great job of choreographer, this requires also significant skills of skater to listen and follow the music and express it on ice. This time Anna's FS left really great impression from this point of view.
As for Satoko, apart from impression of a child on ice, I think that music chosen is too difficult for her, she doesn't feel music rhytm and structure, especially when music goes faster and becomes more expressive - she really skates off the music in these parts of a program. But she did well at her level and I suppose she could become a more mature skater in a few years. But for sure her jump tecnique need to be improved, URs can become huge problem when she'll grow up.

I totally disagree with you on Satoko. She is probably the most musical skater I have seen in a long time. I haven't felt like this in a long time, she just took my breath away.

 

[Skater Boy]

I read some comments Leonova was or is injured can someone give some details. I tried searching the posts for more info but no luck. thanks.

 

[NaVi]

I read some comments Leonova was or is injured can someone give some details. I tried searching the posts for more info but no luck. thanks.

I'm not going to dig up the story(look through the figureskatingru twitter account), but they did an interview after the SP and her coach said she hurt her back and is having trouble acclimating to the time zone change...

 

[Li'Kitsu]

I totally disagree with you on Satoko. She is probably the most musical skater I have seen in a long time. I haven't felt like this in a long time, she just took my breath away.

:thumbsup:

Small jumps and tiny frame which makes she look junior-ish. I also think she was underscored in PCS here but to be frankly judges are also human. Standing beside Anna Pogo, Satoko look so small and tiny while Anna looks so mature. To be frankly, Anna looks even more mature than Adelina IMO.
Anna might be sloopy but she has huge jumps and fierceness and her looks help a lot (bigger presence on ice). And her package this year is not that bad.
Not to mention jumps are the elements that get the highest scores.

That's no explanation at all. I don't get at all why people say Satoko looks junior-ish - her skating is way more polished than Annas. I like Anna too, but Satoko is better in every PCS component (same holds true for Satoko compared to Ashley).
And yes, jumps are the major point getters. But OTOH, Satoko should make up quite some of that GOE difference with her spins - they're THAT much better than Annas (again, and Ashleys).

 

[Meoima]

That's no explanation at all. I don't get at all why people say Satoko looks junior-ish - her skating is way more polished than Annas. I like Anna too, but Satoko is better in every PCS component (same holds true for Satoko compared to Ashley).
And yes, jumps are the major point getters. But OTOH, Satoko should make up quite some of that GOE difference with her spins - they're THAT much better than Annas (again, and Ashleys).

Satoko looks 12 comparing to Anna Pogo and Ashley. In the medals ceremony the difference is huge. The judges are just human, I think they are also easily impressed by big jumps and looks.

 

[aftertherain]

:thumbsup:
That's no explanation at all. I don't get at all why people say Satoko looks junior-ish - her skating is way more polished than Annas. I like Anna too, but Satoko is better in every PCS component (same holds true for Satoko compared to Ashley).
And yes, jumps are the major point getters. But OTOH, Satoko should make up quite some of that GOE difference with her spins - they're THAT much better than Annas (again, and Ashleys).

Agreed. I also don't understand how people can say that Satoko has no connection to the audience when she got a standing ovation--a fairly sizable one, I might add. Surely that must mean that there was at least one person that found her performance spectacular...

There was no doubt that Anna deserved to be on the podium (seven triples!), but I think she was overcooked on PCS compared to Satoko. Those judges who gave Satoko marks below 7.00 must have a vendetta against her or something.

 

[iceberg]

I already knew that Anna will dominate Skate Canada in the ladies event. I have so much expectations for this girl for such a young age. Finishing fourth place in her LP at last year's world, there is no doubt she'll be the next to be in the podium.

TBH, she is the only girl from the Russian team that I really love. I prefer her programs, SS and jumping techniques. And her triple lutz triple toe is almost textbook! She is indeed the best firebird across the ice.

I'm rooting for her this season!!! She is my favorite!

 

[iceberg]

Having said that, I don't understand why Elena always gets higher scores than Anna, finishing a 195.47 over all score over 191.81 of Anna. TBH, I think that Elena's ss is quite unrefined, she doesn't have good landing positions. I don't like her artistry her programs are just mostly straight lines as compared to Anna's programs which are more lyrical and circular.

 

[Li'Kitsu]

Satoko looks 12 comparing to Anna Pogo and Ashley.

Anna and Ashley don't stand next to Satoko while she skates, so who gives a **** how old Satoko looks next to them on the podium?
If that influences the judges, they're not human, they're idiots.

Agreed. I also don't understand how people can say that Satoko has no connection to the audience when she got a standing ovation--a fairly sizable one, I might add. Surely that must mean that there was at least one person that found her performance spectacular...

Exactly. I doubt if they wouldn't have felt any connection, they would have went up.

 

[NaVi]

Since people are talking about heights, in another piece of info I read(on forum.fsonline.ru or https://2ch.hk/sp/) but can't find again Pogo said on instagram that she's 165cm(5'5") now. She's still listed as 160cm on isuresults. Ashley Wagner is listed at 159cm so 164-5 is probably about right.

https://twitter.com/ISU_Reporter/status/528832367683567617

There was no doubt that Anna deserved to be on the podium (seven triples!), but I think she was overcooked on PCS compared to Satoko. Those judges who gave Satoko marks below 7.00 must have a vendetta against her or something.

Satoko may have been undercooked a bit. but I just don't see this big difference between her and Anna in favor of Satoko that others are seeing when it comes to PCS. And Anna easily deserved gold.

 

[Li'Kitsu]

Satoko may have been undercooked a bit. but I just don't see this big difference between her and Anna in favor of Satoko that others are seeing when it comes to PCS. And Anna easily deserved gold.

People are mainly arguing that Anna doesn't deserve a huge PCS gap towards Satoko - and she was scored 4 points higher in PCS.
I'd still say Satoko tops Anna in all 5 components...

And I don't disagree with Annas gold, she was rightfully in 1st. I disagree with Ashleys silver though.

 

[BounceAround]

The big question now is in what state are Yulia and Adelina. If it is OK there will be a big drama: Pogorilaya versus Radionova.

I think Adelina looked pretty good during the latest Russian Cup event.

 

[OS]

Wait.. I agreed she was undermarked in PCS, just not as much as people think given the complaints (Far superior?! Come on). Given the way they typically judging new young skaters, at least it is consistent with the trend.

Since you asked my reasons, here's a little bit of cruel truth probably nobody dares to say due to political correctness or just feel uncomfortable discussing in this sport we calls 'figure skating' in a human judged sport.

I have never been impressed by Asian skaters skating to an Asian female cliched tragic themes like Miss Saigon. It is usually chosen to put the observer on a sympathetic stance already instead of having to convince them through actual performance. It is also a double edge sword. It can works well if it is able to deliver on your expectations, but it can be made worse if they don't deliver on the emotion, vulnerability and sympathy for these well known archetype despite the complementary packaging already. Quiet strength is only one of the emotions Satoko were able to deliver among a whole range of emotions she neglected. Maturity may exist in her aesthetic presentation, but it doesn't exist in how she emotionally and intellectually interpret this piece as well as the music highlight. It works, because its ready made emotional factors complement and compensate her blank expressions, the grand sweeping score also makes her smaller presentation seems bigger and grander than it actually is on a zoomed in TV camera presentation.

Despite a well choreographed program and clever packaging that attempt to shielded her interpretative weaknesses demonstrated in her SP. How can anyone be surprised by the natural disadvantages a little skater, with little limbs, little jumps competing in a physical sport called 'figure' skating where jumps and jumping quality accounts for 7 out of 12 technical elements in the long program? Especially in the department of aesthetics and presentation? Her wow factor on a relative scale to others due to her physical disadvantages is apparent. If she skated at Junior, this wouldn't be as clear, but not at seniors against the like of Ashley who is a seasoned performer. As much people don't like to admit, beauty matters, charisma matters, commanding presence on ice matters which the other 2 have in spades on a relative scale. Put it this way if Anna is her size and scale, she wouldn't be getting the PCS she has got.. that is the truth.

People don't call this a pageantry sport for nothing, otherwise why should costumes and make up matters? Especially the judging stereotype of female vs the men programs seems somewhat still stuck in the 1960s. Women on beauty, feminine sensitivity and emotions. Men on tech, quads, less of emotions or sensitivity.

I would further add 'Performance sport' aspect should occupy a major part of the judging criteria if it is to remain an Olympic sport, which Satoko would come last relative to Anna and Ashley. Skills and techniques are another, but even as someone as talented, skilled and mature as she is today - it would take at least a season to earn her reputation. It is no different than other talented newbies out there, the likes of Julia, Anna (who is at least a Cup of China Champion), Liza or Hanyu when they first started. To expect her to be some over night sensation in PCS is highly unrealistic at this stage, even if she does comes from a powerful federation and her awkward SP package hardly helped.

I do want to add, as much as I nitpick apart her program. I MUCH prefer this introverted program over many other leading US and Russian skaters programs. She did maximised the heck out of it, despite her physical disadvantages and totally deserves her standing ovation.

 

[Meoima]

Anna and Ashley don't stand next to Satoko while she skates, so who gives a sh*t how old Satoko looks next to them on the podium?
If that influences the judges, they're not human, they're idiots.

Jumps are the biggest elements in FS, so of course they count. Anna definitely has better looks, and big presence on ice, aside from her huge jumps. Judges have no reason to underscore Satoko given the fact that she is now considered JSf No.2 or maybe no.1. And they have not much reason to over-score Anna Pogo because she is not even Russian no.1, she is their no.3 or even 4.

 

[thoakun]

I feel that skaters like Satoko and Mae are being punished because their bodies don't conform to the ideal female skater's physique, which is quite sad since they can't do anything about that. I'm from an Asian country and 16-year-old girls who look like Satoko are not uncommon and most of them don't look much different even after a puberty. Satoko is actually very muscular and strong, but her muscles are so tiny. She may look small, but I can see her inner maturity from her serious and focused face, the programs she chose for the past 3 seasons, her posture and nice defined lines which take years to attain. She apparently has great body and muscle awareness and strength to help her gain control in fundamental skating skills. As I look up many of her still photos during the performance, I notice that her finger movements are incredibly elegant and I always discover something more little purposeful details in her performance after each rewatch.