2014 Worlds Men Short Program

[elee63]

I hate Machida,

But that was a skate of a lifetime,

Gonna take some beating

Can I just ask the motive for the hatred? just out of curiousity

 

[elee63]

Machida dumped his foreign coach who taught him quad and brought him to where he is in January. A bit ungraceful IMO.

I'm sure his previous coach understands. This is skating, and throughout their career, athletes know there are different things they need to be working on to continue the climb. It's natural for someone to switch coaches when he thinks he can improve more in someone else's care.

When you start to bring emotions into it, that's when things get messy.

 

[StellaCampo]

Interesting to note how Machida's PCS magically jumped by 3.5 points in a matter of one month.

Machida's SP PCS in Sochi was 42.50, at Worlds 45.39.
The increase is 2.89 points.
By the way, if you take the lowest PCS score given by any judge for his SP, at Sochi it was 39.50 (judge No 7), whereas at Worlds it was 42.75 (judge No 4). If you take 42.75 as Machida's PCS for his Worlds SP, you will get total SP score of 95.57, slightly behind Fernandez but still an impressive score.

Machida doubled 2 jumps at Sochi: the intended 4Tx3T became 4Tx2T, and doubled lutz. As Mrs P says his performance at Sochi was generally under par and he himself said that it lacked artistic merit. Machida's own assessment of the SP at Worlds is one of satisfaction so the PCS uplift is more or less justified, I think.

 

[snowflake]

Kelly, this thread is growing so quickly that I can't tell whether your question has already been answered, but in case it hasn't: Phillip Mills (choreographer) was also in the Kiss-n-Cry with Machida.
If the question was already answered, I apologize for the repeat.

So which program did Mills choreograph for Machida? I thought the free and Lambiel the short?

 

[Mista Ekko]

Can I just ask the motive for the hatred? just out of curiousity

It's not real hatred I appreciate him the way i do all skaters,
I just hate his style, His movement looks awkward and out of place for me, He's a bleh skater, I dislike his musical choices and his costumes
And you'll probably resent me for saying, But trying to be honest, His physical appearance isn't working for me, At least in the sense that if he's
trying to portray Firebird, or a soft piece of music it looks ill fitting, I think it's the hair
And i kinda resent him for exploding this season and stealing a spot from either Kozuka or Oda, But that's neither here nor there,

But i can still appreciate what he did in the SP here, It was everything coming into place, Great moment for him, And who knows,
maybe he'll grow on me, Lots of others did

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

It isn't really fair to complain about Home Inflation. There is no Japanese presence on the tech team OR the judging panel, unlike Sochi, where the Men's event had a Russian judge on both SP and FS panels, and a Russian ATS on the tech panel.

The TECH here is ITA, USA, KOR
The SP judges appeared to be more Russia- and European friendly than anything else.

Of course the crowd is screaming for their own skaters, but they are screaming for the other skaters, too (if not quite as loud).

It's not about Japanese presence on the panel. It's heavily dependent on where it's held. Would you say that when Chan won 2013 Worlds there was no home inflation because there was no Canadian judge on the panel?

There's NO way Hanyu, or any skater, would - or should - get 45 points PCS with a fall, unless it was on home ice.

 

[tjskate]

Just watched the top men on Icenetwork. I have to say, I saw no sign of home inflation. The Japanese men are really a powerhouse group and I think deserved their marks. Machida's program was transcendent; you can see how he was skating with such passion and confidence. Having a home crowd behind you can either inspire or put additional pressure on a skater; he rose to the challenge. All of them skated with really great flow and choreography which seemed lacking in a lot of the others; this definitely affects PCS.

Did enjoy Javier's "Satan Takes a Holiday"; I recognized a bit of Robin Cousin's choreography in there

And was impressed with Chafik Besseghier from France also - very musical and has the goods, looking forward to more from him!

 

[Li'Kitsu]

He's not out of the race, and he NEVER gives up.
He has a history of giving his best, when his back's against the wall (2012 World's and 2013 World's).
But he does need a little help from Fernandez and Machida...

His GPF LP might even be enough to win. People lately like to lament about how Hanyu "is never clean in his LP" - but for real, how many men are anyway? Clean LPs in the men's event are a rarity. How many clean LPs did Machida have? He's very often close to, but I wouldn't expect him to be 100% clean either. If he has a fall or one or two stumbles, I'm sure 4S-fall-but-otherwise-clean Hanyu will beat him. He'll have a higher BV, should have overall higher jump and spin GOE (and spin levels), and will get at least slightly higher PCS. I don't get where "Hanyu is out of the gold medal race" comes from at all...

And yes, worlds seems to be Hanyu old "mess the SP up, bring it in the LP" game. That used to be his usual thing before he went to Orser (look at his JWC win, his 2011 GPFs + CoR, his 2012 worlds bronze... every major thing he won prior to Orser was due to strong LPs after weaker SPs). And it seems sometimes he likes to fall back to old habits

 

[Li'Kitsu]

There's NO way Hanyu, or any skater, would - or should - get 45 points PCS with a fall, unless it was on home ice.

Except for the fact that PCS are supposed to be independent from mistakes on the technical elements. Stupid rule, but that's how it's scored.
Personally, I think everyone's PCS are in a huge battle about who's are the most ridiculous. Everyone is overscored. GOEs are not that bad overall, but there are some pretty weird ones in there too (don't ever start taking a close look at spin GOEs. They're the worst.)

 

[ramurphy2005]

While Machida was on, I didn't enjoy his artistry that much.

I didn't enjoy Machida's program that much either. Part of it might be that I'm comparing this program to Michelle, and her 'East of Eden' is one of my all time favorite programs. I think that sums up my problem with it. In my mind, he has to construct a program that's on an equal level with the one that I love to watch over and over again, but he failed to do it.

 

[whatif]

Except for the fact that PCS are supposed to be independent from mistakes on the technical elements. Stupid rule, but that's how it's scored.
Personally, I think everyone's PCS are in a huge battle about who's are the most ridiculous. Everyone is overscored. GOEs are not that bad overall, but there are some pretty weird ones in there too (don't ever start taking a close look at spin GOEs. They're the worst.)

Well, a poster above just made an argument that the reason Machida's PCS were lower in Sochi is because he doubled jump. So there you go.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Hanyu is still VERY much in it. He pulled 193.41 points with a fall at the GPF in Japan. Fernandez's personal best is 186.

Machida's PB is 174.20 -- that is a HUGE difference (over 19 points)... so his 7 point lead is nothing.

I honestly think Machida can pull 190 with two quads on home ice, which would not even necessarily seal the deal if Hanyu lands everything (which I don't think will happen). I'm predicting Hanyu will easily with the FS, dropping Machida below him, but Fernandez will also get it together and nab the win.

I really hope something like last year's Worlds doesn't happen. Fernandez is not a Denis Ten (who deserved to win 2013 Worlds but unfortunately came out of nowhere), and actually has the lead over Hanyu, so if he outskates Hanyu in the FS, the win should be his.

 

[KwanIsALegend]

Well, one more program left for Jeremy. No longer will we have to hear whoever it is that yells loudly just before the music begins in Jeremy's skate. I find that kind of obnoxious.

I have to say I am not a Max Aaron fan. His skating reminds me a lot of Elvis Stojko. Very masculine and not a lot of choreography or artistry, but of course not every skater has to be artistic, I just prefer the more artistic skaters.

I am kind of cherishing these Worlds since it is the last competition of the season. :disapp:

 

[Li'Kitsu]

Fernandez winning would also be such a sweet comeback from his 4th place finish in Sochi, when he wasn't far off the podium. Given how high he scores now in the SPs, I'm sure a clean LP would easily beat his PB (although his Chaplin program was much better).

 

[tjskate]

Well, a poster above just made an argument that the reason Machida's PCS were lower in Sochi is because he doubled jump. So there you go.

I believe that Li'Kitsu is right - strictly speaking, the PCS is independent of the technical elements. However, a fall can affect the transitions/execution/interpretation of a program, and that is where something like a fall can affect it. More about what happens "around" the fall rather than the fall itself.

 

[whatif]

I believe that Li'Kitsu is right - strictly speaking, the PCS is independent of the technical elements. However, a fall can affect the transitions/execution/interpretation of a program, and that is where something like a fall can affect it. More about what happens "around" the fall rather than the fall itself.

I am not talking about a fall but a dobled jump.

 

[statmam]

So which program did Mills choreograph for Machida? I thought the free and Lambiel the short?

In an article on the IceNetwork site, Machida credits Mills with both the short and the free program.

 

[StellaCampo]

Well, a poster above just made an argument that the reason Machida's PCS were lower in Sochi is because he doubled jump. So there you go.

If you were referring to me, that's NOT the point I made. My reference to doubled jumps was only to correct your comment that Machida doubled one jump at Sochi. In fact he doubled 2 jumps. Mrs P said that quite apart from jumps he was tentative at Sochi, and I agreed.

 

[Li'Kitsu]

I am not talking about a fall but a dobled jump.

Just because posters here are using it as an argument doesn't mean it's what the ISU rules say
Especially about popped jumps - they really shouldn't affect the PCS (except for when the skaters gives up afterwards and it shows, but that's another matter).

Looking at Machidas Sochi PCS as a comparison, Mrs.P made a very good point about Machida being a little tense back there. He was definitly sharper and more into it today, so higher PCS are fine. But it's unrelated to the doubled jumps.

 

[snowflake]

In an article on the IceNetwork site, Machida credits Mills with both the short and the free program.

OK, thanks. I wondered because in his bios Lambiel is also mentioned as one of his choreographers.