- Joined
- Feb 13, 2014
come one, he did a 4-386 for Voronov with 2A ? Sorry. I am not buying it
come one, he did a 4-386 for Voronov with 2A ? Sorry. I am not buying it
come one, he did a 4-3
I double that. 4-6 points difference would be fair, not 8. It is possible that it will be crucial for the final results. Myzyk was uniqueIn my subjective view Voronov was a bit underscored, and Javi and Michael were a bit overscored. My "fair" scores would be 87, 83, 79. I like Javi a lot but today he was much less inspiring than usually. With Brezina - Voronov argument we have 3A downgraded to 2A (minus 5 points BV) vs. no combination plus fall (at least minus 10 points BV).
But my hero of the day was polish skater Myzyk (in Russia there is a similar word мужик which means "real man"). Yes he looks like a real man - kind of bulky and masculine. Very different from the rest of the field.
A bit of a disappointing event... No real clean programs from, well, anybody.
The placements are fine, but I gotta say, looking at the protocols, the judging was a mess. Not in terms of PCS, but in terms of TES:
- Javi got mainly -1s and -2s for the failed 4S. Only one judge gave him -3. He received -1s and -2s for the mistake on the combo, and one judge even gave him 0! (I would've given it -2 because the first jump was good, but even -3 wouldn't be out of the line). Not to mention the GOE for the footwork.
- Sergei's scores were mainly fair, except for the three -1s for the 2A (he doubled out on his plan, but the jump itself wasn't worthy of negative GOE, especially compared to everyone else's marks).
- Two judges gave Michal no GOE for his 4S.
- Two judges gave Maxim -2 for his 4S. It was nearly a fall, and there were no good features about the jump to give anything less than -3. His GOE for the 4T ranged from -1 to -3. Again, I'd give it -3, at most -2 for being less awful than the 4S.
- Peter Liebers got a mix of 0s and -1s for his hand down on the axel. On the other hand, I thought they were stingy with GOE on his excellent 3F-3T; should've received +2s across the board.
- Florent got some -1s for his 3S. That was a bit harsh; he popped the quad, but it was a perfectly respectable 3S.
In terms of the skaters themselves, I give Sergei credit for being the least messy of the bunch. What a shame for Michal... wonderful 4S and 3A, then loses it on a 3F. Considering his PCS, I think the judges would've really gone with him if he were clean. Outside the main contenders, Ivan Righini was a joy to watch, not letting the fall affect him at all.
As a side note, if we compare directly with American Nationals, there do seem to be a difference in values. I can't help but think that if these guys were all American and competed in front of an all-American panel, Liebers of all people would be leading. I mean, he skated a near-clean program, just slightly worse technically than what Josh/Jeremy did at Nationals, and he had the "transitions" that seem to reign supreme in North America. Yet here he ends up in fifth place with lower PCS than a guy with two stumbles, a guy with a doubled jump, a guy with a fall and no combo, and a guy with two stumbles and no combo. I'm not saying which judging is better than the other--in fact, I agree with neither--but it's just something interesting to note.
In my subjective view Voronov was a bit underscored, and Javi and Michael were a bit overscored. My "fair" scores would be 87, 83, 79. I like Javi a lot but today he was much less inspiring than usually. With Brezina - Voronov argument we have 3A downgraded to 2A (minus 5 points BV) vs. no combination plus fall (at least minus 10 points BV).
But my hero of the day was polish skater Myzyk (in Russia there is a similar word мужик which means "real man"). Yes he looks like a real man - kind of bulky and masculine. Very different from the rest of the field.
A bit of a disappointing event... No real clean programs from, well, anybody.
The placements are fine, but I gotta say, looking at the protocols, the judging was a mess. Not in terms of PCS, but in terms of TES:
- Javi got mainly -1s and -2s for the failed 4S. Only one judge gave him -3. He received -1s and -2s for the mistake on the combo, and one judge even gave him 0! (I would've given it -2 because the first jump was good, but even -3 wouldn't be out of the line). Not to mention the GOE for the footwork.
- Sergei's scores were mainly fair, except for the three -1s for the 2A (he doubled out on his plan, but the jump itself wasn't worthy of negative GOE, especially compared to everyone else's marks).
- Two judges gave Michal no GOE for his 4S.
- Two judges gave Maxim -2 for his 4S. It was nearly a fall, and there were no good features about the jump to give anything less than -3. His GOE for the 4T ranged from -1 to -3. Again, I'd give it -3, at most -2 for being less awful than the 4S.
- Peter Liebers got a mix of 0s and -1s for his hand down on the axel. On the other hand, I thought they were stingy with GOE on his excellent 3F-3T; should've received +2s across the board.
- Florent got some -1s for his 3S. That was a bit harsh; he popped the quad, but it was a perfectly respectable 3S.
Since Fernandez's SP keeps getting geo-blocked in the USA (and a few other countries) by Sony Music on sites like YouTube, I have made an alternate Google Drive location of my recording:
Javier Fernandez SP B.ESP2 (streaming and downloadable)
Sorry for the cross-posting, I've just known that only a select audience of the world can actually see the YouTube video without being blocked. :scowl:
I double that. 4-6 points difference would be fair, not 8. It is possible that it will be crucial for the final results. Myzyk was unique
Speed is not subjective, is part of SS. Covering the ice is not subjective at all. Anyway, you think all you want, but Javi's skating is way better than Voronov's. So just deal with it I guess. There is no point in discussing these things if you are stick to your opinions no matter what.
I would be very happy for Voronov if he wins. I love the guy, but to complain about his scores here? It frankly a joke.
Sergei does have a lot of charisma actually, but he doesn't have the skating skills, transitions, choreo and interpretation that Javi has. So yes, even with a step out Javi deserves to be ahead of him. I'm saying this as a Voronov fan.
Not that I like his skating so much, but I like him and he has big jumps.
I wouldn't complain about Voronov's mark but I am saying Javier was too generously marked for his mess and skating skills not equivalent to Hanyu, Chan or other Japanese skaters or D Ten.
Okay, that could explain Michal (the lack of steps cancelled out the GOE he would've gotten for the great 4S). This makes me even more saddened that he didn't just go for 4S-3T--the landing looked good enough to pull it off, and he wouldn't have ended up combo-less after the flip.Keep in mind in the case of Michal (and Maxim), they have no steps going into their solo jump. Some judges recognize this, hence -2 GOE deduction.
- Javi got mainly -1s and -2s for the failed 4S. Only one judge gave him -3. He received -1s and -2s for the mistake on the combo, and one judge even gave him 0! (I would've given it -2 because the first jump was good, but even -3 wouldn't be out of the line). Not to mention the GOE for the footwork.
I guess we'll have to disagree here. I never understood the logic of awarding points for transitions into a failed jump. Do the darn jump. The transitions should be rewarded in the second mark, in TR.I don't think he deserved -3 for the S and the combo though. I can see that for Kovtun because he has such a terrible position, and no step before the jump, but Javi has short entry&features and much better position. I agree that one 0 was too generous from that judge, but -1 is about fair. I would understand -2 also, but honestly I think a -2 it's harsh.
He might've been overscored in PCS by 1 or 2 points at max? I don't think it was a bad judging.