2015 Four Continents Men's Free Skate Feb 13 Seoul Time

[chairmanmao]

I hope they will think about it again after Universiade and 4CC... Shoma deserved the place for SENIOR worlds even during Nats but they don't want to send him and picked Kozuka instead.... Kozuka still need to do a decent competition this year.... It's meaningless :disapp:

Kozuka step sequence and choreo sequence are absolutely divine. No one around can touch it. If there is even an inkling of a chance that this program can be perform cleanly I'll take it. Hopefully it happens at Worlds. Mura and Hanyu have been consistent the past few competitions, it will take a disaster from this 2 not be able to keep the 3rd spot.

 

[TontoK]

This result should put Josh into the seeded group of skaters at WC.

Someone had done the math, and they reported that he needed to finish 4th or better to make the cut for the seeded SPs. I think Adam had to finish 10th, but I'm not sure.

 

[bekalc]

I'm not full blown, but I see it now. He got so much praise at Nats and I thought I was missing something. I like Jason's presentation much better. But I am becoming a major fan now.

Presentation can be in the eye of the beholder and Josh/Jason are completely different presentation wise...

At this point I don't see Jason as a complete skater. To be quite frank Jason doesn't just have a quad problem. He has a triple axel/underrotation problem. The fact that he has problems rotating his triple axel makes me wonder if he will ever have the power to do a quad. Its not a hit on Jason, and I would love him to prove me wrong. But it is what is.

Right now you have men like Denis Ten who do both. So its an issue that Jason cannot and I'm frankly tired of people suggesting the jumps are not part of the package. They are.

Farris is incredibly strong jumper as well as having an artistic beautiful style the judges appreciate. His scores here are the highest ever by a US man internationally. Right now he's by far the most complete package the USA has.

I remember once reading an article on the 2002 Olympic (mens) and they said a lot of time its not the best artist and not the best technician that ones. Its the person who best combines the both. It take work to be good at them both.

 

[Li'Kitsu]

Farris is incredibly strong jumper as well as having an artistic beautiful style the judges appreciate. His scores here are the highest ever by a US man internationally. Right now he's by far the most complete package the USA has.

If Joshua skates close to this at worlds again... USFS is going to bend over backwards to support him as their top man.


I'd disagree about Jason though. He landed both of his 3As here, and they're still getting better in quality. He's not the jumper Joshua is, but that doesn't mean he's not a complete skater.

 

[Mrs. P]

This result should put Josh into the seeded group of skaters at WC.

Someone had done the math, and they reported that he needed to finish 4th or better to make the cut for the seeded SPs. I think Adam had to finish 10th, but I'm not sure.

Yes, Josh and Adam should have gained enough ranking points to get into the final two warm-up groups for Worlds. Jason was already there, this is good news for team USA.

So the top 12, i.e the final two groups, I think will be (based on rough calculations)
1. Yuzuru Hanyu
2. Denis Ten
3. Sergei Voronov
4. Javier Fernandez
5. Takahito Mura
6. Maxim Kovutn
7. Michal Brezina
8. Han Yan
9. Jason Brown
10. Joshua Farris
11. Adam Rippon
12. Peter Liebers

Now the snag is if there's a certain number of skaters, the last two groups could be 5+6 = 11...so Peter Liebers may or may not end up in the final two groups.

 

[Mrs. P]

Presentation can be in the eye of the beholder and Josh/Jason are completely different presentation wise...

At this point I don't see Jason as a complete skater. To be quite frank Jason doesn't just have a quad problem. He has a triple axel/underrotation problem. The fact that he has problems rotating his triple axel makes me wonder if he will ever have the power to do a quad. Its not a hit on Jason, and I would love him to prove me wrong. But it is what is.

Right now you have men like Denis Ten who do both. So its an issue that Jason cannot and I'm frankly tired of people suggesting the jumps are not part of the package. They are.

Farris is incredibly strong jumper as well as having an artistic beautiful style the judges appreciate. His scores here are the highest ever by a US man internationally. Right now he's by far the most complete package the USA has.

I remember once reading an article on the 2002 Olympic (mens) and they said a lot of time its not the best artist and not the best technician that ones. Its the person who best combines the both. It take work to be good at them both.

If Joshua skates close to this at worlds again... USFS is going to bend over backwards to support him as their top man.


I'd disagree about Jason though. He landed both of his 3As here, and they're still getting better in quality. He's not the jumper Joshua is, but that doesn't mean he's not a complete skater.

Nobody is saying that jumps aren't part of the complete package. I'm not. But why USFSA would suddenly throw Jason under the bus because Josh has beat him for the first time in two years? Yeah, this wasn't his best result ever (though I mean what would you compare it too? It was his first 4CC. Josh finished 6th at his first 4CC last season and that was without the bigwigs.)

Jason scored 167+ without a quad and with two errors (relatively minor, but still points were given away). That's a pretty decent score. The international judges seem to like what he offers IN SPITE of the relative lack of quad. (And they felt that way when he lacked the 3A in juniors).

As for the 3A UR issue, i see it more it as a mental issue than a reflection of his ability to do it. He did 2 here. Last season, every 3A he did in the short program was ratified with +GOE. The UR/issues has always been on the second axel in the FS. URs seem to occur because of tightness/nerves, not because of his technique.

He knows that he's not the jumper that the other competitors are, that's why he finds other ways to make up the points, i.e. backloading, spins, transitions, etc. etc. That's being a good competitor.

I can see USFS will basically back both if they keep tossing higher placements back and forth, like they did when they were juniors This has been the story of their respective careers since they were like 10. I don't see why it has to be an either/or proposition. I mean I would think it would be more fun to have two solid skaters then having to put all your eggs in one basket.

 

[Violet Bliss]

Denis' program was so beautiful and he performed beautifully. In fact, much of his skating reminded of Chan, then he did a Takahashi-like step sequence, and pulled a Hanyu finish on the ice!

Using Chan as the gold standard, I nitpick Denis dropping his choreography and his arms preparing and going into the big jumps. The TES is a bit too high considering the few jumping errors. But all in all, an excellent skate to a great choreography.

 

[Sackie]

This result should put Josh into the seeded group of skaters at WC.

Someone had done the math, and they reported that he needed to finish 4th or better to make the cut for the seeded SPs. I think Adam had to finish 10th, but I'm not sure.

Funny how it worked our just right for both of them!

 

[jkun]

The men at this event were phenomenal! Much better than the splatfest that was Euros.. I was worried we were gonna see men fall their way into the podium, but I see a lot of potential for multiple 4CC competitors to medal at worlds.

 

[s_parks]

Does anyone have the list of gala participants?

 

[smoothiw]

Does anyone have the list of gala participants?

<4CC Gala>

Hae Jin Kim
Jin Seo Kim
? (Lady 4th)
Wenjing / Cong
Daisuke Murakami
Maia / Alex
? (Lady Bronze)
Cheng/Hao
Han Yan
Madison/Evan

----------------------------

June Hyoung Lee
So Youn Park
Joshua Farris
Shiyue/Xinyu
? (Lady Silver)
Qing/Jian
Misha Ge
Kaitlyn/Andrew
? (Lady Gold)
Meagan/Eric
Denis Ten

 

[Skater Boy]

Yes, Josh and Adam should have gained enough ranking points to get into the final two warm-up groups for Worlds. Jason was already there, this is good news for team USA.

So the top 12, i.e the final two groups, I think will be (based on rough calculations)
1. Yuzuru Hanyu
2. Denis Ten
3. Sergei Voronov
4. Javier Fernandez
5. Takahito Mura
6. Maxim Kovutn
7. Michal Brezina
8. Han Yan
9. Jason Brown
10. Joshua Farris
11. Adam Rippon
12. Peter Liebers

Now the snag is if there's a certain number of skaters, the last two groups could be 5+6 = 11...so Peter Liebers may or may not end up in the final two groups.

The third Japanese man has a chance, Amodio and just to keep it interesting let's hope that little guy from Canada makes it. Liebers, Farris (despite 4ccs), Yan, Brezina, Rippon and maybe the third Japanese man and a Russian all could bomb so it would possibly give Amodio, misha ge and Nam a chance. For some reason it seems like Brezina has been around for a while though he is young and he isn't moving anywhere fast - the world is passing him.

 

[Mrs. P]

The third Japanese man has a chance, Amodio and just to keep it interesting let's hope that little guy from Canada makes it. Liebers, Farris (despite 4ccs), Yan, Brezina, Rippon and maybe the third Japanese man and a Russian all could bomb so it would possibly give Amodio, misha ge and Nam a chance. For some reason it seems like Brezina has been around for a while though he is young and he isn't moving anywhere fast - the world is passing him.

Right, the list is strictly who is likely going to be in the final two groups of the SP. Not meant to be a prediction.

 

[s_parks]

<4CC Gala>

Hae Jin Kim
Jin Seo Kim
? (Lady 4th)
Wenjing / Cong
Daisuke Murakami
Maia / Alex
? (Lady Bronze)
Cheng/Hao
Han Yan
Madison/Evan

----------------------------

June Hyoung Lee
So Youn Park
Joshua Farris
Shiyue/Xinyu
? (Lady Silver)
Qing/Jian
Misha Ge
Kaitlyn/Andrew
? (Lady Gold)
Meagan/Eric
Denis Ten

Thank you

 

[bekalc]

If Joshua skates close to this at worlds again... USFS is going to bend over backwards to support him as their top man.


I'd disagree about Jason though. He landed both of his 3As here, and they're still getting better in quality. He's not the jumper Joshua is, but that doesn't mean he's not a complete skater.

I am not just comparing him with Josh. I am with other top men his age. His triple axel is not consistent. Take a look at this years track record. And you have top men who have consistent quads and triple axels. In juniors many of the men don't have the quad. In general Jason does not seem to be the most powerful jumper... I wonder if it will ever be a strong jump who knows though Chan got one.... But I think the jumps are weaker than a lot of the men so I stand by not complete at this time.

As for Josh. I never said he is for sure a star. But he is more likely to be competive.

 

[balletanddancefan]

<4CC Gala>

Hae Jin Kim
Jin Seo Kim
? (Lady 4th)
Wenjing / Cong
Daisuke Murakami
Maia / Alex
? (Lady Bronze)
Cheng/Hao
Han Yan
Madison/Evan

----------------------------

June Hyoung Lee
So Youn Park
Joshua Farris
Shiyue/Xinyu
? (Lady Silver)
Qing/Jian
Misha Ge
Kaitlyn/Andrew
? (Lady Gold)
Meagan/Eric
Denis Ten

Micha Ge?????

 

[TontoK]

The third Japanese man has a chance, Amodio and just to keep it interesting let's hope that little guy from Canada makes it. Liebers, Farris (despite 4ccs), Yan, Brezina, Rippon and maybe the third Japanese man and a Russian all could bomb so it would possibly give Amodio, misha ge and Nam a chance. For some reason it seems like Brezina has been around for a while though he is young and he isn't moving anywhere fast - the world is passing him.

I believe Mrs. P's list is the top 12 in the World Ranking of those who are expected to compete.

If so, and if these are the guys who show up, then the final two groups in the SP should come from this list. Not saying that Nam, Amodio, Ge, and others don't have a chance to finish 12th or better. Simply that these will be in the final two groups of SP.

The LP final groups will be determined by SP results.

ETA: I see now that Mrs P clarified her list in a separate post in response to you. Sorry for the double whammy.

 

[Skater Boy]

Nice break through for Josh and you have to be happy for him though I have to say it easily could have been Rippon. The US has a lot of men - probably 5 who could break on to the podium at world's if the stars aligned but I do think in this era and considering Brown does not have the pcs skills of a Lambiel, Buttle or Chan that with his arsenal and challenges to the 3A he should be left off the podium but the judges seem to like him and his marks with errors here suggest he could sneak on the podium. Mind you we have Hanyu and then the rest - Fernandez, D Ten, Brown, Farris, Rippon, Han, Mura, Kozuka, Kovtun, Voronov maybe Brezina. There are the top ten spots and then some. Which means Misha Ge, Amodio, Liebers, Nam et al would be hard pushed to get into the top 12 to earn two spots for their respective nations.. Canada and France must be petrified - Canada especially. It does not look good. Nam is their only hope. Jeremy Ten could be a Brown but the judges don't like him as much and his 3A is barely there. At least France has experience. If Chan returns that will be a sad nationals for some men.

 

[zschultz1986]

PCS are marked all wrong. It's all reputation and it's all judges within a "corridor" of scores. Judges are basically using it as the old second mark, and not ACTUALLY using it as it is supposed to be used: 5 seperate areas of program components. They're basically cheating, with some judges lowballing some skaters and some judges boosting some skaters. They do it with GoE too. If you're a skater they like, the GoE is good, and the negatives are less harsh, if not, the opposite is true.

Yet again, skating fans were sold a bill of goods. CoP was suppose to get rid of this type of judging. It has not. I'm nearly fed up with the sport because of the cheating in judging, and the blatant disregard for what PCS/GoE is supposed to be.

 

[Rissa]

Late to the party as always but wow, Denis slayed score-wise. Almost 30 points over the next guy. 2-5 finishers were suprisingly close in final score.

Nam: mechanical but he seemed faster on the ice to me than in GP.

Jason: those trousers :hopelessness: I really like the program though.

Adam: nice and pleasant to watch despite the mistakes

Misha: his butt spin seemed less offensive to the eyes than that of others? Misha's always great to watch though.

Han Yan: wow, his jumps are monstrous. However, I dislike his music cut.

Mura: some big jumps again, I like watching him. And I like his choreography.

Joshua Farris: when he appeared I thought I was watching Jeremy Ten again. A little creativity in the costume department wouldn't go amiss. Eh. That music is friggin boring that I can't even appreciate Joshua's skating. I just zone out. I did notice that he skated cleanly though, so great job!

Denis: finally a good costume for that program! I found the music cut disjointed and could only get into the program only halfway through, when the music picked up. Loved loved the step sequence. And what TES! Plus great final score! World Gold is within Denis's reach!

Shoma: I guess he's not made of steel after all? (Was he hurt? During the repetitions he looked like he might have been in pain.) I liked the fire in his skating.

Daisuke: the choreography doesn't convince me but it was a pleasant watch. Good ending to a fantastic competition!

I fervently hope all the guys will deliver just as well (or better in a few cases) at Worlds, that would be an amazing end to the season!