2015 Russian Nationals Mens SP

[exerym]

Yuzuru is from another planet compared with these Russian guys who only can execute 2 quads at their very best, but nothing more, ever. As much I like Voronov.

I think Yuzuru is from another planet comparing with anybody.

 

[WYW]

Voronov only has one quad so his BV is about 4-5 points lower than Kovtun.

Menshov has two quads but a touch down on his quad, which is an error that cost him 2-3 points, and his artistry/skating skills aren't better than Kovtun, not to mention he's never been a fave of the Fed so getting gipped isn't new.

Kovtun is obviously the federation's poster child, having won two GP events, even with Voronov beating him at the GPF, and IMO he's a better overall skater than Voronov/Menshov.

One more thing: there is no standing that Plushenko has earned that merits 95 PCS for that bad a freeskate (or 100 points for an SP with a flawed lutz, at that). It's asinine to even begin to try to justify that nonsense scoring - even in a Nationals context. I don't care who he is or how many wins he has, skaters' scores should be justified by their performance not their popularity. With Plu everyone laughs it off as him being a legend who can score whatever, with Kovtun people rake him over the coals.

98 points for two clean quads is fine - outside of Russia, it'd be 95. I get people hate Kovtun and have a soft spot for Menshov/Voronov but his lead over them is justifiable, given Menshov's 4S error, and Voronov's lack of a 2nd quad.

Let's not forget Hanyu scored 94 points at the GPF with a fall.

Lets not forget that Kovtun also had a 0 or -1 GOE on his 3A, which means there might have been a slight touch down, turn out, or scratchy landing. I think Kovtun has improved, but looking at the protocol, he is getting PChan/Hanyu GOEs (LOL at the step sequence) and PCs. I think for this skate it would be closer to 90-92 if it were outside of Russia (still a great score!) rather than a 98.

It is interesting that at the GPF, half of judges deducted him for the lack of transitions into his solo quad. I believe this may be the reason for why that solo judge gave him a 0 while other judges gave him a +2 for the 4T, however the video will tell us more. I really hope he has changed the entry into the 4T in this competition to warrant those +2s, or else he will get clobbered in international competition.

 

[NaVi]

If the ESPN streaming works for you, you can see all the men's performances...

http://espn.go.com/watchespn/player?id=2286991

 

[HanDomi]

I don't see too much drama about this scores at nationals. Yuzuru with clean SP will easily hit 104 at japanese nationals

 

[Interspectator]

I just watched Kovtun's performance. Well, he DID do very, very well. I think it is in-line with normal Nationals inflation that 98 was given.
Probably in the international circuit it would get around 92-94. I think there was an over turn on his Axel.
The program is still kind of boring to me, but the jumps were not so labored this time.

Well done Kovtun.

ALSO, WELL DONE MENSHOV, and VORNOV.
There is still tomorrow.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

B

I don't see too much drama about this scores at nationals. Yuzuru with clean SP will easily hit 104 at japanese nationals

Agreed. And even if he makes a minor error (eg a two foot) he'll still clear 100.

I don't think Kovtun deserves 92 for this performance (92 is his PB from CoR last season and he's improved since then... Though I prefer last year's SP). If Hanyu can get 94 with one quad and a fall not at Nationals, Kovtun should get around a 95 for a clean skate with 2 quads, and 97-98 with Nationals inflation.

Let's be honest... Menshov deserved like 89, Voronov 88, and Kovtun 95. So 3 points higher each with Nationals inflation makes sense.

Although it is kinda funny watching people lose their minds over Russian nationals PCS, especially the Kovtun haters who would love for him to be off the podium but can't stand him landing a clean SP with two different quads and getting rewarded for it.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I just watched Kovtun's performance. Well, he DID do very, very well. I think it is-line with normal Nationals inflation that 98 was given.
Probably in the international circuit it would get around 92-94. I think there was an over turn on his Axel.
The program is still kind of boring to me, but the jumps were not so labored this time.

Well done Kovtun.

ALSO, WELL DONE MENSHOV, and VORNOV.
There is still tomorrow.

I agree with you 100%. I don't know why Kovtun gets no love. It actually warms me to him seeing all the hate thrown his way. While I thought Adian actually had a better program and has better jumps and more interesting Choreo I can see why Kovtun is scored so well.

He had a little step out/turn out on the 3a but he delivered quite well.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

With a minor stepout his GOE would have been lower on his 3A and his PCS about 42.. So 94-95 makes sense internationally and 98 in Russia. Menshov got 92 with a touchdown and obviously he would have scored sub-90 outside of Russia. Kovtun indeed received inflated marks but so did all the others (except maybe Pitkeev who was shafted on PCS because he's a newbie).

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

With a minor stepout his GOE would have been lower on his 3A and his PCS about 42.. So 94-95 makes sense internationally and 98 in Russia. Menshov got 92 with a touchdown and obviously he would have scored sub-90 outside of Russia. Kovtun indeed received inflated marks but so did all the others (except maybe Pitkeev who was shafted on PCS because he's a newbie).

Well...Eteri's kids aren't going to be getting favors this year for Christmas from the Russian fed. I expect to see the rubber hoses out tomorrow also.

 

[karne]

I think they changed the rules so that if a skater skates on the senior GP they can not attend JWC anymore.

No, that rule never went through. But you can't skate jr and sr GP in the same season.

Not as much of a joke as Plushenko's 95 PCS for his hot mess of a FS last season. Not to mention his 100-point SP a few seasons ago in spite of a lutz error. It's Russian Nationals, and Kovtun skated clean with 2 quads. The judges still kept him under 100. Artur in any other competition would be under 80. Not sure what else you want.. Other than Kovtun to bomb his FS + Gachinski to win, which will not happen. I get that Kovtun is unlikeable but a clean skate with 2 quads at any Nationals will garner that score. Bear I'm mind 98 and 100 have been achieved with only 1 quad. Congrats to Kovtun for having an awesome SP as well as Menshov/Pitkeev/Voronov!

Oh please! Plushenko - even the old, broken, not-as-good version - is ten times the skater Kovtun is! And Kovtun wishes he could skate with half as much lyricism and grace as Artur does. Kovtun's 4S shouldn't even come close to positive GOE.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

No, that rule never went through. But you can't skate jr and sr GP in the same season

Was there talk of it though? Was it amended out or never passed?

 

[AprilS]

I think most nationals marks are pretty inflated, so I don't really see the big problem with these scores. That being said,

With a minor stepout his GOE would have been lower on his 3A and his PCS about 42.. So 94-95 makes sense internationally and 98 in Russia. Menshov got 92 with a touchdown and obviously he would have scored sub-90 outside of Russia. Kovtun indeed received inflated marks but so did all the others (except maybe Pitkeev who was shafted on PCS because he's a newbie).

do you mean 42 PCS at Russian Nats or internationally? Because Machida got 42.50 PCS at GPF. 42 PCS is really really good. As much as I have a soft spot for Kovtun and don't get all the hating on him, I disagree with 42 PCS outside of nationals. If you meant 42 PCS within nats, nvm then.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Oh please! Plushenko - even the old, broken, not-as-good version - is ten times the skater Kovtun is! And Kovtun wishes he could skate with half as much lyricism and grace as Artur does. Kovtun's 4S shouldn't even come close to positive GOE.

So you're telling me Plushenko deserved 95 PCS for his FS at last year's Russian Nationals?

I know you hate Kovtun, and are crushed that Gachinski messed up (as if that was unexpected), but call a spade a spade. Kovtun isn't a Plushenko in terms of projection/performance but his choreography and technical content is more ambitious. Just compare their SPs last year and it's painfully obvious that Plu was rocking the reputation PCS at Nationals, whereas Kovtun had to be pretty much clean with 2 quads just to get 92 points at last years Nats.

 

[karne]

Was there talk of it though? Was it amended out or never passed?

I know there was some discussion of it, but the issue was how it might affect the skaters from little countries - because they were talking about including Senior Bs. It never passed.

Just watched Artur's skate - the fall on the 4T was the only mistake he made. The combo was 3Lz-3T but his 3Lz is always so effortless that it does look like a double at first glance. 3A was good. Spins were not bad, I'd love to see them come up with a different catch foot position than that horrid torso-down position in the camel. He looks generally in good shape and skating well, he just needs to straighten up the quad a little. He did land them at SkAm so it's not a lost cause. Have faith in yourself, Artur!

 

[Sandpiper]

I don't care what Kovtun scores. It will only be a problem if he bombs the LP tomorrow and wins in Chan-at-2013-Worlds style. Thus, I'm more concerned about whether he's really 6 points better than Menshov-with-a-step-out/Voronov-with-one-less-quad. Any videos of all top three skaters?

We'll see what the judges do, if it's unclean Kovtun vs. mostly clean Voronov (I don't think we'll see clean Menshov; sorry, Menshov, do prove me wrong. ).

 

[karne]

So you're telling me Plushenko deserved 95 PCS for his FS at last year's Russian Nationals?

When compared with what Kovtun got for PCS, yes, he did! Of course both scores were ridiculously high. But Plushenko is so much better, and should have been ahead, and when they gave Kovtun his joke PCS it guaranteed that Plushenko's were going to be silly.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I think most nationals marks are pretty inflated, so I don't really see the big problem with these scores. That being said,



do you mean 42 PCS at Russian Nats or internationally? Because Machida got 42.50 PCS at GPF. 42 PCS is really really good. As much as I have a soft spot for Kovtun and don't get all the hating on him, I disagree with 42 PCS outside of nationals. If you meant 42 PCS within nats, nvm then.

IMO a clean skate with 2 quads deserves 41-42 points PCS if a skate with one quad (in a flawed combo at that) gets 42.50 PCS. That's mid 8's, which I would give to Kovtun's skate which was well performed outside of the elements. It's really unfortunate when people say a clean program with 2 quads should score less than a program with one quad and a error on the quad at that. I get Kovtun isn't everyone's cup of tea, but he skated one of the SPs this season.

Men do 4T, 3A and 3Z+3T and get 92-93 points so Kovtun deserves 95 points with 4S+3T, 4T, 3A -- the hardest content one could perform and has performed (save for Mroz's quad lutz). Difficulty deserves to be rewarded. And to top it off, I don't really see people complaining about Menshov and Voronov's PCS.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I don't care what Kovtun scores. It will only be a problem if he bombs the LP tomorrow and wins in Chan-at-2013-Worlds style. Thus, I'm more concerned about whether he's really 6 points better than Menshov-with-a-step-out/Voronov-with-one-less-quad. Any videos of all top three skaters?

We'll see what the judges do, if it's unclean Kovtun vs. mostly clean Voronov (I don't think we'll see clean Menshov; sorry, Menshov, do prove me wrong. ).

@Sandpiper Try this

or search YT user anemon101

 

[AprilS]

IMO a clean skate with 2 quads deserves 41-42 points PCS if a skate with one quad (in a flawed combo at that) gets 42.50 PCS. That's mid 8's, which I would give to Kovtun's skate which was well performed outside of the elements. It's really unfortunate when people say a clean program with 2 quads should score less than a program with one quad and a error on the quad at that. I get Kovtun isn't everyone's cup of tea, but he skated one of the SPs this season.

Men do 4T, 3A and 3Z+3T and get 92-93 points so Kovtun deserves 95 points with 4S+3T, 4T, 3A -- the hardest content one could perform and has performed (save for Mroz's quad lutz). Difficulty deserves to be rewarded. And to top it off, I don't really see people complaining about Menshov and Voronov's PCS.

Hmmm, so you're tying technical content with PCS very very closely. I do think that technical content does influence PCS, but I disagree on the amount that you equate these two aspects of a program. I feel like you're saying skaters should get a "clean bonus" or a "more quads bonus" which I kind of :scratch: at.

On another topic, does anyone know why Voronov does a 3Lo as his solo jump? That's leaving a lot of points on the table, and it's not like he's incapable of higher-scoring jumps.

 

[silverfoxes]

I uploaded a few of the ESPN videos here (Voronov, Petrov, Menshov, + Pitkeev uploading now).

I wonder why they changed Adian's music cuts? It sounds really strange now. But his jumps are to die for!