2016 Four Continents Ladies Free Skate

[Sweet Dream]

Her jumps, while small and somewhat pre-rotated still look very clean and "neat", and effortless (which I believe is a GOE bullet point). Like Lipnitskaia a while ago at her best, the judges reward her for getting them done and without stumbles, even if they're not big. It's not like she's getting +3s.

But good on her for TES personal best and a FS PB too!

Your comparison between these two skaters is really far-fetched. Are Julia's jumps as low & tiny as Miyahara's even before her puberty?

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Sorry, you may want to check your facts. Lipnitskaya placed a few spots outside of the top 5 at Russian Nats this season, and she didn't have a 3-3.

*eye roll* I'm obviously referring to the seasons when Lipnistakia with her tiny jumps were still good enough to win silver at 2 Russian Nationals (and a World silver, and Euros/Olympic team gold, at that).

 

[jenaj]

A solo jump cannot be done twice. Since her 2A+3T is a combination, it does not violate the rule so it is ok.

I think a solo 2A can be done twice. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
'

 

[jenaj]

Chartrand performed extremely poorly all season. When I attended Skate America, she finished dead last. Not even close to a medal in any of her events this season until Canadian Nationals -- and ladies is by far the weakest discipline in Canada. None of them are in contention for a medal internationally. Not a deep field by any stretch of the imagination.

She's still the Canadian National champion. That is all I said. She has also medaled at a Grand Prix event- Rostelecom in 2014.

 

[NaVi]

Satoko, by the way, can do a 3-3. She does one in the short program....
She also has a 3-3; she just doesn't do it in her long program because she can get the same points with the jump layout she uses.

When we say Satoko doesn't have a 3-3 we're saying she doesn't have real one... even without considering pre-rotation, the 3T at both 4CC and GPF(eurosport guy callout) should have been called UR ... She does two 2A-3T because it's probably the only combination where she can guarantee the 3T will be rotated.

 

[zanadude]

What's wrong with Mirai's music?

It's four separate programs forcibly welded into one.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

*eye roll* I'm obviously referring to the seasons when Lipnistakia with her tiny jumps were still good enough to win silver at 2 Russian Nationals (and a World silver, and Euros/Olympic team gold, at that).

Can you imagine if Julia's jumps were the same quality as Satoko's going into the Olympics.

I know you remember the vile and sometimes personal things said about Julia in those days. TBH....I'm tired of talking about Satoko's jumps. At this point even her Salchow is scoring better than someone like So Youn who has one of the best Salchows in the game. The judges have spoken and it's time to move on. I don't think it's fair at all but unless the judges suddenly see what we seem to think we do there is nothing to be done. I just wish skaters like Mao and Ashley who have been put thru the ringers would receive the same generosity. Especially considering how much better their jumps appear to be to my eyes.

 

[sabinfire]

*eye roll* I'm obviously referring to the seasons when Lipnistakia with her tiny jumps were still good enough to win silver at 2 Russian Nationals (and a World silver, and Euros/Olympic team gold, at that).

Oh right, how could I miss that. :hslap: Obviously you were comparing this event today to 3-4 years ago! I try to stay within the same season (or at least last season.) Too many changes in this sport to go back several years.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Your comparison between these two skaters is really far-fetched. Are Julia's jumps as low & tiny as Miyahara's even before her puberty?

They're both skaters known for really low jumps. I don't think that's a far-fetched comparison at all. Not to mention, they've both been known to "game" their TES in the FS by doing multiple 2A+3T combinations, because as pointed out, it doesn't really make a difference points-wise if a 3T is tacked onto a 3Z or a 2A.

The haterade of Miyahara is suuuuuper strong with these people. They need to get over the fact that Miyahara has small jumps. She's a small girl, and that's how her jumps will be. For a while, she was getting URs because of it, but clearly she has worked to improve her landings to avoid that. I'm pretty sure if Miyahara (4'10"... 6 inches smaller than Kim and Asada), were taller, her jumps would "look"/be higher too.

Satoko would have almost tied Medvedeva at 4CC and beaten Radionova... Nagasu would have won bronze at Euros with her skates here. So it goes without saying that 4CC is about on par with Euros. The 6th-9th place skaters at Four Continents scored more than the 5th place skater at Euros.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Oh right, how could I miss that. :hslap: Obviously you were comparing this event today to 3-4 years ago! I try to stay within the same season (or at least last season.) Too many changes in this sport to go back several years.

Lipnitskaia placed 2nd at Russian nationals (and won Euros gold/GPF silver/World silver/Olympics team gold) just TWO seasons ago (2013-2014), actually. She won World silver less than 2 years ago, and Russian Nationals silver about 2 years and 2 months ago (losing the title by less than 2 points, at that). Guessing you're not related to Mathman. :sarcasm:

Let's also not forget that Lipnitskaia was 3rd after the SP in this most recent Russian Nationals, with her tiny jumps. The point being, a skater doesn't need to have huge jumps to be competitive -- they just need to have rotated jumps (and obviously since pre-rotation isn't scrutinized heavily, it's not a problem - as far as the system goes - for skaters who do have some pre-rotation).

 

[Osmond4gold]

Nervous Chuckie, as in your diminished expectations towards Canadian ladies. In the last few years, you would tell anyone who would listen, that Osmond lacked basic skating skills, edges and her step sequences steps were double footed. In your opinion, you could never see her able to compete with Gracie and company. Well, tell us, ...how does crow taste?

This year, you have made comments at nausium, on the Canadian women possibly losing a second spot based on world results. Rather than focus on the Canadian women, perhaps your time might be better spent thinking more closer to home, given Gracie's inconsistency on 'the big stage' and Polina's youthfulness in programs/speed.

Just a thought :scratch3:

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Nervous Chuckie, as in your diminished expectations towards Canadian ladies. In the last few years, you would tell anyone who would listen, that Osmond lacked basic skating skills, edges and her step sequences steps were double footed. In your opinion, you could never see her able to compete with Gracie and company. Well, tell us, ..how does crow taste?

This year, you have made comments at nausium, on the Canadian women possible losing a second spot based on world results. Rather than focus on the Canadian women, perhaps your time might be better spent thinking more closer to home, given Gracie's inconsistency on 'the big stage' and Polina's youthfulness in programs/speed.

Just a thought :scratch3:

To be fair to chuckie, his haterade towards Osmond and uber-hyping of perfect Hollywood blonde Gracie wasn't nearly as strong as She-who-shall-not-be-named. (Wonder what she would say about Gracie today.)

 

[sabinfire]

Lipnitskaia placed 2nd at Russian nationals (and won Euros gold/GPF silver/World silver/Olympics team gold) just TWO seasons ago (2013-2014), actually. She won World silver less than 2 years ago, and Russian Nationals silver about 2 years and 2 months ago (losing the title by less than 2 points, at that). Guessing you're not related to Mathman. :sarcasm:

Let's do the math together:

This season -- #1

Last Season --- #2

Anything beyond that is at least a 3, unless my math is wrong? :dumb: Either way, it's not this season nor last season. It's at least 3 seasons ago.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Let's do the math together:

This season -- #1

Last Season --- #2

Anything beyond that is at least a 3, unless my math is wrong? :dumb: Either way, it's not this season nor last season. It's at least 3 seasons ago.

Sure, let's do the math together.

You said 3-4 years ago. ("Obviously you were comparing this event today to 3-4 years ago!")

Russian Nationals where Julia came 2nd - Dec. 27, 2014
Four Continents 2016 where Satoko won - Feb. 20, 2016

So, 2 years and 2 months. Not "3-4 years ago".

Tuktamysheva won Worlds in March 2015 (it hasn't even been a year) -- and going by your math/logic (this season = 1, last season = 2), we should all say that Tuktamysheva won Worlds 2 seasons ago. I'm assuming you can agree that the current season isn't even over yet, so you can't count it inclusively when saying how many "seasons ago" something was.

 

[NaVi]

Assuming you can repeat a triple jump no more than twice

Also, you can only repeat two triples twice.

 

[just wondering]

Well, that clearly shoots my idea! hahahha
Thanks, NAvi.
I think I'll just delete it.
. . . .Done! . . .

 

[sabinfire]

Sure, let's do the math together.

You said 3-4 years ago. ("Obviously you were comparing this event today to 3-4 years ago!")

Russian Nationals where Julia came 2nd - Dec. 27, 2014
Four Continents 2016 where Satoko won - Feb. 20, 2016

I know you'd rather debate irrelevant details. However, your original post I replied to stated: "Lipnistakia with her tiny jumps were still good enough to win silver at 2 Russian Nationals..."

Which two Nationals were you referring to?

The only two she's won silver at were 2011-2012 & 2013-2014.

If her first win silver was 2011-2012, how many years/seasons is that if not at least 3?

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Can you imagine if Julia's jumps were the same quality as Satoko's going into the Olympics.

I know you remember the vile and sometimes personal things said about Julia in those days. TBH....I'm tired of talking about Satoko's jumps. At this point even her Salchow is scoring better than someone like So Youn who has one of the best Salchows in the game. The judges have spoken and it's time to move on. I don't think it's fair at all but unless the judges suddenly see what we seem to think we do there is nothing to be done. I just wish skaters like Mao and Ashley who have been put thru the ringers would receive the same generosity. Especially considering how much better there jumps appear to be to my eyes.

Satoko is getting World medalist GOE, and we all know it. I've said time and time, a top skater doing a jump cleanly will get +2/3 and +1 if they make a minor error, and a medium-tier skater doing a jump cleanly (even with greater quality) will get +1 tops and -1 if they make a minor error.

 

[chuckm]

Nervous Chuckie, as in your diminished expectations towards Canadian ladies. In the last few years, you would tell anyone who would listen, that Osmond lacked basic skating skills, edges and her step sequences steps were double footed. In your opinion, you could never see her able to compete with Gracie and company. Well, tell us, ..how does crow taste?

This year, you have made comments at nausium, on the Canadian women possible losing a second spot based on world results. Rather than focus on the Canadian women, perhaps your time might be better spent thinking more closer to home, given Gracie's inconsistency on 'the big stage' and Polina's youthfulness in programs/speed.

Just a thought :scratch3:

Yes, Gracie is inconsistent on a seasonal basis. But she has consistently placed top 6 or better at Worlds/Olympics every year since her senior debut in 2013. That's a pretty good "big stage" record, better than any Canadian lady since Joannie Rochette left competitive ice. And Polina has placed top 10 at Worlds 2014, 2015 and Olympics despite her youth, and won 4CC last year. Polina's performances at US Nationals this year were breathtaking.

Osmond has had troubles in the past with her basic skating that could be traced to her injuries. She still struggles with inconsistencies.

Sure Osmond at her best can compete with Gracie at her worst, which is what we saw at 4CC. Can she compete with Gracie at her best? I guess that is the question.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I know you'd rather debate irrelevant details. However, your original post I replied to stated: "Lipnistakia with her tiny jumps were still good enough to win silver at 2 Russian Nationals..."

Which two Nationals were you referring to?

The only two she's won silver at were 2011-2012 & 2013-2014.

If her first win silver was 2011-2012, how many years/seasons is that if not at least 3?

Yes... the most recent time she won silver at Russian nationals (with her tiny jumps) was 2013/2014 -- which was less than 2 seasons ago. And it is also a fact that with said tiny jumps she was also able to win silver in Nationals in 2011-2012.

That doesn't change the factual nature of my initial phrasing, nor does it change the fact that Lipnitskaia has won Russian Nationals silver more recently than "3-4 years"/seasons ago.