2016 Four Continents Ladies Free Skate

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

When I see Miyahara I remember immediately to her disadventage such wonderful skaters from the past and from the present like Arakawa, Slutskaya, Kwan, Asada, Yu Na Kim, Kostner, Sotnikova, Tuktamysheva.

She is a lovely person but her surprising success is not good for figure skating. I really hope Medvedeva, Radionova, Pogoriliya, Asada and Gold show their best and will skate without falls in Boston.

I disagree that her winning isn't good for figure skating. What's not good for skating is when skaters won Worlds with 5 triples. Or when skaters like Liza have mediocre programs but win on the basis of jumping. At least Satoko puts out 7 triple programs and has a lovely refined skating style.

 

[Meoima]

I disagree that her winning isn't good for figure skating. What's not good for skating is when skaters won Worlds with 5 triples. Or when skaters like Liza have mediocre programs but win on the basis of jumping. At least Satoko puts out 7 triple programs and has a lovely refined skating style.

7 doubles to be honest.

 

[andromache]

No, her height is not the reason (or at least not the main reason) of her small jumps. It's the fact that she learned the skating basics jumping clockwise because that's her natural direction and then they made her jump counter-clockwise when she moved back to Japan. Quoting her coaches, she doesn't have any natural athletic talent and it took her forever to learn how to jump counter-clockwise, just like it's taking forever for her to complete her rotations in the air. She came a long way though. In a fairer world nobody would be getting reputation PCS, cushion PCS for top skaters who deliver weak programs, +GOE for jumps with hand down / step out / no flow in and out, etc.

The difference is that reputation PCS/cushion PCS are not quantifiable. I agree that it's annoying and wrong, but it's not objectively wrong.

OTOH, jump rotation is an objective category that can be evaluated equally among all skaters. Top skaters do not get rotation problems ignored (except maybe one jump every once in a while if they aren't chronic under-rotators and no one is really looking for it.) Mao and Ashley both get their rotations very scrutinized and often dinged for them. It is not fair that Satoko does not.

 

[solani]

No, her height is not the reason (or at least not the main reason) of her small jumps. It's the fact that she learned the skating basics jumping clockwise because that's her natural direction and then they made her jump counter-clockwise when she moved back to Japan. Quoting her coaches, she doesn't have any natural athletic talent and it took her forever to learn how to jump counter-clockwise, just like it's taking forever for her to complete her rotations in the air. She came a long way though. In a fairer world nobody would be getting reputation PCS, cushion PCS for top skaters who deliver weak programs, +GOE for jumps with hand down / step out / no flow in and out, etc.

I think it's nasty that the coaches in Japan made her jump counter-clockwise. It's like making a left-handed kid writing with the right hand. And I really don't know how to interpret the comments of her coaches. Them saying that she hasn't got any natural athletic talent leaves me speechless.
She's a very likeable, humble girl and I think she's a talented figure skater.
So I think that in a truly fairer world we would see Satoko jumping clockwise and maybe the marks she gets now would be deserved.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

7 doubles to be honest.

7 doubles according to you. 7 triples according to the people trained to judge the sport and whose opinion actually matters in the end.

Yeah, people keep droning about how pre-rotated her toe jumps are but her loop, salchow are perfectly fine, so saying she "jumps 7 doubles, to be honest" is just haterade on your part. Jumps being low in height doesn't make them doubles. And if anything, even though she prerotates sometimes, her landing edges are usually well past a quarter turn to make up for it (while others barely get the rotation or hook their landing edge).

 

[ioanna]

The difference is that reputation PCS/cushion PCS are not quantifiable. I agree that it's annoying and wrong, but it's not objectively wrong.

It doesn't matter if PCS are not quantifiable. The conclusion is still the same, people being frustrated with certain skaters getting big scores / placing ahead of other skaters. It has happened and will happen over and over again.

 

[Meoima]

7 doubles according to you. 7 triples according to the people trained to judge the sport and whose opinion actually matters in the end.
Yeah, people keep droning about how pre-rotated her toe jumps are but her loop, salchow are perfectly fine, so saying she "jumps 7 doubles, to be honest" is just haterade on your part. Jumps being low in height doesn't make them doubles. And if anything, even though she prerotates sometimes, her landing edges are usually well past a quarter turn to make up for it (while others barely get the rotation or hook their landing edge).

Oh yeah you don't know... :giveup: Some judges are talking about ISU considering harsh punishment for pre-rotation so yeah. I guess if Satoko won WC this time with her doubles jumps, next season she would get dinged on many of "triples" she lands.
But guess what, I will laugh. I hope they will inflate her scores to the point she break WR and we shall see the scoring system change.

 

[solani]

Oh yeah you don't know... :giveup: Some Chinese judges are talking about ISU considering harsh punishment for pre-rotation so yeah. I guess if Satoko will win WC this time with her 7 doubles LP, next season she will get dinged on every single "triple" she lands.

And that would be heartbreaking. I would only wish that the tech panels would always check her landings and that the judges would reduce the GOE's of her jumps a bit, because then I'm sure we would see Satoko and her team truly working on her technique. Because, no matter what they say right now, I don't see them fixing that flip.

 

[Meoima]

And that would be heartbreaking. I would only wish that the tech panels would always check her landings and that the judges would reduce the GOE's of her jumps a bit, because then I'm sure we would see Satoko and her team truly working on her technique. Because, no matter what they say right now, I don't see them fixing that flip.

They won't ding her jumps and she will win WC. :cool2:

 

[solani]

They won't ding her jumps and she will win WC. :cool2:

I think that we can count on Medvedeva that she won't. Because, honestly, I really hope that Satoko won't win Worlds. She's a lovely skater but a world champion should have better jumps imho.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Oh yeah you don't know... :giveup: Some judges are talking about ISU considering harsh punishment for pre-rotation so yeah. I guess if Satoko will win WC this time with her doubles jumps, next season she will get dinged on many of "triples" she lands.
But guess what, I will laugh. I hope they will inflate her scores to the point she break WR and we shall see the scoring system change.

Lol, you do realise that Satoko could also improve her jumps and mitigate her pre rotation just like she mitigated her underrotation issues? Although I'm actually hoping the rules change as you say and Satoko STILL gets ratified triples and wins, much to the dismay and disappointment of her haters. And whatever, if she won Worlds with her "doubles", she'd still have the win and any rule change/extra scrutiny wouldn't change that.

Anyways that change would never come about as it would take forever for a tech specialist to scrutinize every jump for pre rotation, and that applies to every skater, not just Miyahara - although let me guess, you're hoping the tech specialist goes selectively after just Miyahara, right?

 

[Meoima]

Lol, you do realise that Satoko could also improve her jumps and mitigate her pre rotation just like she mitigated her underrotation issues? Although I'm actually hoping the rules change as you say and Satoko STILL gets ratified triples and wins, much to the dismay and disappointment of her haters. And whatever, if she won Worlds with her "doubles", she'd still have the win and any rule change/extra scrutiny wouldn't change that.
Anyways that change would never come about as it would take forever for a tech specialist to scrutinize every jump for pre rotation, and that applies to every skater, not just Miyahara - although let me guess, you're hoping the tech specialist goes selectively after just Miyahara, right?

Oh please I wish for her to win WC and see how the system breaks and see the tech specialist get mad. I love to see the world burns. And I love to see next season when all the ladies get at least 2-3 UR calls each competitions.

And you should call the tech specialist at Ladies Lp Saitama, she will tell you otherwise. She gave Mao 4 calls and kanako 6 calls. She's also the one who gave Polina T 2 UR calls at Youth Olympic. She is my role model.

 

[ioanna]

Oh please I wish for her to win WC and see how the system breaks and see the tech specialist get mad. I love to see the world burns. And I love to see next season when all the ladies get at least 2-3 UR calls each competitions.

You sure are overzealous.

 

[Meoima]

You sure are overzealous.

Yes I am. I always love chaos. :hap57: I really like it when I see scoresheet with numerous calls, sorry all ladies. :dev2:

 

[ioanna]

Yes I am. I always love chaos. :hap57: I really like it when I see scoresheet with numerous calls, sorry all ladies. :dev2:

Cool.

 

[rollerblade]

I think it's nasty that the coaches in Japan made her jump counter-clockwise. It's like making a left-handed kid writing with the right hand. And I really don't know how to interpret the comments of her coaches. Them saying that she hasn't got any natural athletic talent leaves me speechless.
She's a very likeable, humble girl and I think she's a talented figure skater.
So I think that in a truly fairer world we would see Satoko jumping clockwise and maybe the marks she gets now would be deserved.

How awful indeed. Why does it even matter which direction she spins? It's not like she's a pairs skater and the only available partner in the entire country is a CCW jumper.

 

[solani]

How awful indeed. Why does it even matter which direction she spins? It's not like she's a pairs skater and the only available partner in the entire country is a CCW jumper.

It's easier at the rink and for the coaches when all skaters are skating/jumping/spinning in the same direction. It's also a bit safer, because it's easier to avoid collisions.
Kristi Yamaguchi skated pairs with Rudy Galindo, she rotated anti-clockwise and he clockwise. That was very appealing in my opinion. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AE02qmpJRJ0

 

[neostra]

I was so overwhelmed with tears in my eyes after Mirai's free skate. She delivered an amazing performance( also her last competition?) and I was there to witness the glory! Wish I yelled 'Mirai I love you' while they were circling the rink after the gala finale.

Satoko was consistent and her jumps were consistently short in height and distance. She's cute and humble. What a lovely person. But if she wants to be a phenom, she needs bigger jumps. I know figure skating is not just jumps but hers are too small. Well, in the other hand, it's quite amazing how she managed to land those jumps in such short distance and height.

 

[jenaj]

I'm pretty sure height doesn't impact the size of one's jumps, or at least it shouldn't. Karen Chen has huge jumps. Midori Ito was tiny with huge jumps. Tursynbaeva looks shorter than Satoko and her jumps are still bigger.

But anyway, making excuses for her jumps isn't really the point. Regardless of what the reasoning for having poor elements, does not mean she should be rewarded for them. I understand she receives GOE based on aspects other than height and distance, but in a fairer world she would be getting dinged hard on rotation.

Yes, Midori Ito was probably shorter than Satoko and her jumps were huge. I agree that it's probably from have to learn to jump in her opposite direction.

 

[burntBREAD]

How awful indeed. Why does it even matter which direction she spins? It's not like she's a pairs skater and the only available partner in the entire country is a CCW jumper.

It's because public rinks in Japan are super overcrowded and skating in the opposite direction of everyone else is just recipe for disaster and accidents.