2016 Four Continents Ladies Free Skate

[Sugarpova]

I hope she picks better free skate music next year. She will be in the hunt internationally and she may be the US lady to beat come Nationals if she keeps this momentum. It would be nice to see. She has fought so hard.

I so want that. She totally deserves to be #1 US lady!
& I hope this comp is the 1st step in this direction!

 

[chuckm]

Your relentless criticisms of Kaetlyn and her skating skills, existed well before her injuries! Kaetlyn by the way, was def. far from "her best" this competition, but did show anyone who watched, that she had quality, passion, heart and never gave up on her programs. I would def. say she outshined Gracie by miles, esp. in PCS.

The constant criticism of all things Canadian, does get tiresome. As our ladies continue to improve/ impress, perhaps it is time to find a new topic to rant.

Kaetlyn's 4CC FS was the best she's skated all season, and I was duly impressed. She wanted to end her season on a high note, and she succeeded in doing that. Good for her!

OTOH, Gracie's FS at 4CC was the worst FS she's skated all season and I was very disappointed, but not that surprised. Gracie has never skated well at 4CC. I don't think she likes the long travel to Asia so soon after US Championships.
When she has a disastrous SP like the one at 4CC, she usually gets mad and has a bangup FS, but that didn't happen
this time. You can be sure you'll see a different Gracie in Boston.


As for the other ladies improving and impressing, Alaine wasn't at all impressive at 4CC. She messed up the 3z combo in the SP, and started off the FS the same way, and the old habits just crept right back in: df, so, ur. She just seemed tired and disinterested, almost like Gracie. Veronik was her usual smiling self, but she is several tiers lower than Chartrand and Daleman.

 

[koatcue]

Her jumps weren't as great as they are right now. Anyways, it's rather silly to compare Satoko to Liza when both have different builds and the basis of my point is that Satoko's tiny body frame will OF COURSE mean tiny jumps. I don't know what they're expecting from her - she's doing the best she can do with what she's got and is making it work. Yeah, she CAN'T jump as high as her competitors but she can jump cleaner/more consistently than them.

Still all of her wonderful and not so wonderful traits should be reflected in her scores. Being small doen't explain her magical tes, you know.

 

[NicolettaL]

Chartrand performed extremely poorly all season. When I attended Skate America, she finished dead last. Not even close to a medal in any of her events this season until Canadian Nationals -- and ladies is by far the weakest discipline in Canada. None of them are in contention for a medal internationally. Not a deep field by any stretch of the imagination.

Don't be so harsh. She was trying to go with 3A so it was messing with her all season like with Liza. From the SA poor SP we saw the progress, as she nailed her SP at COR. Then she nailed both programs at Nationals. It's not her fault because litteraly whole Team Canada at 4CC looked like someone was messing around with them and some voodo dolls

 

[Skye]

Again, I'm referring to frame - which isn't just height but also build. Satoko is slender and thin, Midori had built powerful legs and a strong frame.

I've seen lots of novice girls with smaller height and frame doing much bigger jumps than Satoko's. I think the reason why so many people are complaining is because Satoko is getting +1~2 GOEs for something she does not excel at.

 

[caelum]

I've seen lots of novice girls with smaller height and frame doing much bigger jumps than Satoko's. I think the reason why so many people are complaining is because Satoko is getting +1~2 GOEs for something she does not excel at.

Yeah, but +1 is almost the "default" now. You get +1 if you land the thing, +2 if it looks even slightly above mediocre. Grade inflation is real ...

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Still all of her wonderful and not so wonderful traits should be reflected in her scores. Being small doen't explain her magical tes, you know.

According to the rule book, they are justifiable:
http://static.isu.org/media/207718/1944-sptc-sov-communication-2015-2016.pdf

1) unexpected / creative / difficult entry
2) clear recognizable steps/free skating movements immediately preceding element
3) varied position in the air / delay in rotation
4) good height and distance
5) good extension on landing / creative exit
6) good flow from entry to exit including jump combinations / sequences
7) effortless throughout
8) element matched to the musical structure

Basically, Satoko gets 2 bullets for any jump that is effortless and with good flow (most of her jumps in her program). If it matches the musical structure (which is at the discretion of a judge), that's another bullet. If she has good extension (which she usually does on her controlled landings, with toe pointed out and back upright and stretched instead of hunched), that's another bullet. And if there are transitions into/out of them, it's more bullets.

Looking at her FS:
1) 3Z+2T+2L: effortless throughout, good flow from entry to exit, varied position in the air (with tano on the loop)... +1... some judges gave 0's on this, only one +2
2) 3L: effortless, good flow... +1 ... LFI-RBO choctaw entry edge transition (the exit of the jump - a bracket with a toe step to facilitate it - was arguably a transition because it's harder than the RBO-LFO 3turn most skaters do after a jump landing)
3) 3F: effortless, good flow, difficult counter entry, exit leap off the landing edge... +2.. most judges gave her +1
4) 3Z: effortless, good flow, choctaw entry... +1 (the two +2s were generous... although I think this had acceptable height/distance and wouldn't reduce her GOE on this jumping pass)
5) 2A+3T: effortless, good flow... no transitions, but matched musical structure,
6) 3S: effortless, good flow, difficult walley preceding... would give this no more than a +1 (which 6 out of 9 gave her, rest were +2)
7) 2A+3T: this was the only pass that was truly overscored for me... would have give in mainly +1s, and some 0's


Looking at her jumps, if she actually had acceptable height on them, they might be worth +2/+3, so if a judge gives a GOE reduction of -1 (they can give -1 to -2 for poor height/distance), Satoko can still get +1/+2... especially if they are preceded/followed by transitions.

Again she didn't get any +3's (mind you +3s are usually given like candy to top-level skaters, so I actually feel the +1/+2s are taking into account the tiny height).

And again, her advantage is that she makes the jumps look easy and effortless, whereas skaters like Medvedeva and Radionova look like they have to muscle their jumps around. Of all the skaters, she gives me the greatest sense of ease when I watch her jump... it's not awe-inducing height, but it's very neat and precise and integrated into the program instead of "Oh, I'm about to jump now. Pray for me." It also looks like she gets fairly good distance, even if the height isn't there.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I've seen lots of novice girls with smaller height and frame doing much bigger jumps than Satoko's. I think the reason why so many people are complaining is because Satoko is getting +1~2 GOEs for something she does not excel at.

If Mao can get +1 for a 2-footed triple axel, and Sui/Han get +1's across for a touch-down 3FTh (4CC 2016)... just saying...

 

[peg]

Kaetlyn's 4CC FS was the best she's skated all season, and I was duly impressed. She wanted to end her season on a high note, and she succeeded in doing that. Good for her!

Actually, her SB was at Nebelhorn, though really both skates were pretty much on a par. So it's not like this was an unusually good performance from Kaetlyn. Yes, she had an absolute disaster at SC, and mentally has taken a while to regain her confidence, but she's always had great performance and interpretation. Even with falls, she still maintains her performance better than just about anyone else. It's hardly like this performance came out of nowhere.

 

[karne]

What is pre-rotation? I keep hearing it in regards to Satoko and I have never heard of it before her. How can you tell? I don't get it. Are people just grasping at straws and trying to find something to complain about? Her jumps are small, but she is a good skater.

Pre-rotation is where part or all of a rotation is completed while the skates are on the ice. In Miyahara's case, one of her worst offenders is her Lutz, where she actually completes a full revolution on her toepick - thus actually only doing two revolutions in the air.

 

[peg]

Yeah, but +1 is almost the "default" now. You get +1 if you land the thing, +2 if it looks even slightly above mediocre. Grade inflation is real ...

The problem is that it's not the default for everyone.

 

[Globetrotter]

I like Satoko but the fact that some skaters get questionable UR calls and neutral GOE while her pre-rotated jumps can get big GOE is not right. If I were a skater like Mao I'd be ticked. The scoring is out of control.

Well, it's the same reason why I think the sort of PCS candies being given out to Medvedeva and even Liza Tuks and Yulia Lip just goes beyond me. Unfortunately, the IJS rules are never clear on the prerotations, just on UR. And PCS scoring is even more vague. For Miyahara, I find her overscored usually on GOE and undermarked on PCS. But at 4cc, she got the PCS I think is deserving but overscored on GOE. I think they should be just 0 across. The 3F should be -1 from the clear prerotation, the Lz solo jump at least had clear improvement in height.

- - - Updated - - -

Pre-rotation is where part or all of a rotation is completed while the skates are on the ice. In Miyahara's case, one of her worst offenders is her Lutz, where she actually completes a full revolution on her toepick - thus actually only doing two revolutions in the air.

I thought the spinning on her toepick is worst on her flip. The solo lutz was not as obvious.

 

[Globetrotter]

And how many times has Mirai proved she's the better skater then Gracie? Seems before 4CC Mirai never came close to beating Gracie. And it took a disaster of a competition for Mirai to beat her.

But if you look at the basic skating skills, Mirai is indeed not as good in terms of edge work, ability to vary speed and direction and using the edges to generate speed. Gracie for all her head case is one of the strongest in terms of SS and only Mao is stronger among the active skaters and Miyahara comes closest to her in terms of edge work. That said, I do agree though that Mirai deserves better IN scores than Gracie but both should be dinged on PE as neither are the sort who could emote well and engage the audience. I also think that the CH of Mirai's FS is really like huh? What I don't like though is that PCS just kind of like averages out roughly similar without reflecting the actual differences.

 

[jenaj]

I hope not.... World figure skating champion should have a bigger, explosive jumps technique and interpretation of music. Satoko has such a tinyyyyy jumps....it is not pretty jump...

Tara Lipinski was World (and Olympic) Champion with small jumps.

 

[jenaj]

I'm referring to her frame (Satoko isn't just short, she's slender and short.... somebody like Elene Gedevanishvili is 5 feet tall, but her frame/build allows for more powerful jumps.

Also, Liza is 4 inches taller than Satoko. And as we saw, once she went through puberty, and learned to work with a heftier build and translate it to power, her jumps got to where they are now (when she's on).

Are you sure about Liza's height? I saw her at Skate America in 2014 and she was tiny.

 

[ioanna]

Are you sure about Liza's height? I saw her at Skate America in 2014 and she was tiny.

Satoko is tinier. Not 4 inches shorter than Liza, but shorter. Liza seems to have longer legs.
http://media.gettyimages.com/photos...pan-first-place-winner-of-picture-id467865776

 

[luckyguy]

When I see Miyahara I remember immediately to her disadventage such wonderful skaters from the past and from the present like Arakawa, Slutskaya, Kwan, Asada, Yu Na Kim, Kostner, Sotnikova, Tuktamysheva.

She is a lovely person but her surprising success is not good for figure skating. I really hope Medvedeva, Radionova, Pogoriliya, Asada and Gold show their best and will skate without falls in Boston.

 

[andromache]

I'm pretty sure height doesn't impact the size of one's jumps, or at least it shouldn't. Karen Chen has huge jumps. Midori Ito was tiny with huge jumps. Tursynbaeva looks shorter than Satoko and her jumps are still bigger.

But anyway, making excuses for her jumps isn't really the point. Regardless of what the reasoning for having poor elements, does not mean she should be rewarded for them. I understand she receives GOE based on aspects other than height and distance, but in a fairer world she would be getting dinged hard on rotation.

 

[ioanna]

No, her height is not the reason (or at least not the main reason) of her small jumps. It's the fact that she learned the skating basics jumping clockwise because that's her natural direction and then they made her jump counter-clockwise when she moved back to Japan. Quoting her coaches, she doesn't have any natural athletic talent and it took her forever to learn how to jump counter-clockwise, just like it's taking forever for her to complete her rotations in the air. She came a long way though. In a fairer world nobody would be getting reputation PCS, cushion PCS for top skaters who deliver weak programs, +GOE for jumps with hand down / step out / no flow in and out, etc.

 

[ioanna]

When I see Miyahara I remember immediately to her disadventage such wonderful skaters from the past and from the present like Arakawa, Slutskaya, Kwan, Asada, Yu Na Kim, Kostner, Sotnikova, Tuktamysheva.

She is a lovely person but her surprising success is not good for figure skating. I really hope Medvedeva, Radionova, Pogoriliya, Asada and Gold show their best and will skate without falls in Boston.

When I see Sotnikova and Tuktamysheva I remember to their disadvantage wonderful skaters like Kwan, Asada, Kim, Kostner. Each to their own.

Her surprising success is not surprising at all, she is the reigning World silver medalist. I don't remember people saying it wasn't good for figure skating back then. IMO, it wouldn't be good for figure skating if skaters who make costly errors in the SP and skate a half-hearted FS still manage to medal. I can probably think about a whole bunch of other things that aren't good for figure skating.