2016 Four Continents Mens Free Skate

[Skater Boy]

Congratulations to the medalists! Really exciting competitions! :clapper: It is such a shame that Boyang missed the title by less than .5 point :no:, but this event will surely be a great learning experience for him. 2 quads in SP and 4 quads in LP, such great and enviable achievements for an 18-year-old up-comer, WOW, simply respectable! :cool2::thumbsup: Hopefully he can continue growing and shine at Worlds.

Well we have to remember Chan had a horrible sp so it would not have been that close had Chan not messed up so much in the sp and jin's pcs were major gift - wrapped and delivered to his door with a bow on it.

 

[Skater Boy]

Why not between Yuzu and Javi? Javi got a very close score at Europeans to awesome Chan's free skate and he (javi) was not at his best. I know scores can't be comparable between conpetitions but I think If he skates better than at europeans he can get silver/gold.

I really hope the judges nail Javi - his pcs have been way too high. The system rewarding technical difficulty with higher pcs and well not distinguishing Chan from Javi or Hanyu - it doesn't seem fair. Its interesting under the 6.0 system we probably wouldn't see Boyang doing so well. Jumping beans could easily be held back for lacking all around skating - or ironically what COP set up to do went backwards.

 

[Skater Boy]

Patrick's LP is a thing of sublime beauty. It's not as unique as Yuzu's, and I don't think Patrick is as naturally interpretive as Yuzu, but it's choreographed perfectly to the music and Patrick manages to hit every single moment while keeping the appearance of skating with abandon. I think it's my favorite men's LP of the year, though Yuzu's is a close second. Just, if it came down to it, I will probably rewatch Patrick's more.

But World's is still Yuzu's to lose, IMO.

As for Jin....the judges giving him high 8s and low 9s are ridiculous, especially for the LP. Keep it real and keep the scores in the 7s. Though his SP is actually quite good and arguably deserves higher PCS than his LP.

I think Hanyu versus Chan is kind of like in 1994 pairs the pure beauty of skating in G and G versus the technical prowess and fierceness of Artur and Natalia. Some say Chan is to introspective but it is pure beauty at least his fs at 4ccs was. pure skating - beautiful skating. Unadulterated and pure beauty. Both in their own way are worthy of gold and glory I am sorry but I don't find Fernandes in the same category. Charismatic yes,. But his tech skills well his lines and such are not of the purity of Chan or tech superiority of Hanyu I respect to jumps. Kind of like Witt - pretty to look at but look closer - feet unpointed, a bit clunky, a bit unrefined, she can pout and she uses her assets and flirts but not technically the best. fArtistically well she flirted well = like Javi.

 

[Franklin99]

Lori is sort of slipping into the grave. And a panda is NOT a bear fyi LOL!

I know it's not a bear, but panda bear has a nicer ring to it then just saying panda.

 

[NanaPat]

Funny! You're right! I was corrected earlier that apparently Max requested the Black Swan piece. I'll take that as fact but, imo, he is not black swan material. It may have helped him stretch artistically, but unless done well, it's dangerous material and falls flat quickly if not totally captured. At least Gracie has the "firebird" spirit on the ice. There's a lot of choices between "Foot Loose" and classical ballet, Max. Find your "Fix You".

I was wondering if Max could get some advice from Elvis Stojko, now that Elvis has returned from Mexico and re-connected with the skating world. Elvis was not a classical artist, but he managed to find programs that suited him and expressed his own personality. He was pretty successful, in the end, though he often attracted the same sort of criticism that Max does.

 

[Skater Boy]

I was wondering if Max could get some advice from Elvis Stojko, now that Elvis has returned from Mexico and re-connected with the skating world. Elvis was not a classical artist, but he managed to find programs that suited him and expressed his own personality. He was pretty successful, in the end, though he often attracted the same sort of criticism that Max does.

My point exactly

 

[MaxSwagg]

People seem to forget the short programs. Yuzu's short program is very much "artistic" with great expression, finesse, nuance, smooth and effortless and clean skating, great extension and line...every thing the components ask for and anything anyone could want. Some people say Seimei is too "sloppy" but this sport is made up of two things: athleticism and "artistry". Let's see Patrick do the technical difficulty with transitions of Yuzuru. I can argue that Patrick shouldn't be getting the GOEs he gets on some of his jumps and spins in relation to Yuzu. Where's the complaints about that?

Also, what difference does it make about the scoring system? IJS isn't forcing the judges to give skater X these components just like 6.0 wasn't forcing them to give skater y those marks. If they wanted to, they could give Boyang lower scores but for whatever reason they don't.

 

[Sweet Dream]

Well we have to remember Chan had a horrible sp so it would not have been that close had Chan not messed up so much in the sp and jin's pcs were major gift - wrapped and delivered to his door with a bow on it.

I am only expressing my appreciation for Jin's great performances here. Nothing wrong with that. Jin, an 18-year-old boy/guy, delivered 2 clean programs under great pressure with 6 quads in total, including 2 hardest quad lutz, which have never been done by any skater before. Don't you think it is a great achievement for him? Even Chan's brilliant FS cannot eclipse Jin's outstanding skates here. This is the sport, and its unpredictability is the very appeal of it, so Never Say "IF..."

BTW, Jin's final scores are all hard earned by his fearless efforts in competitions, not any generous gifts from anybody, for luck will never randomly strike.

 

[Interspectator]

I am only expressing my appreciation for Jin's great performances here. Nothing wrong with that. Jin, an 18-year-old boy/guy, delivered 2 clean programs under great pressure with 6 quads in total, including 2 hardest quad lutz, which have never been done by any skater before. Don't you think it is a great achievement for him? Even Chan's brilliant FS cannot eclipse Jin's outstanding skates here. This is the sport, and its unpredictability is the very appeal of it, so Never Say "IF..."

BTW, Jin's final scores are all hard earned by his fearless efforts in competitions, not any generous gifts from anybody, for luck will never randomly strike.

I agree with you that Jin is not being 'gifted' anything really.
If his strategy was so easily reproduced all the young skaters would be doing it. A clean short and long program with the most difficult jump elements is extremely difficult. I'd give him much lower PCS (I did in the fantasy scoring game made by Perdita), but that wouldn't change his silver medal here.

 

[tureis]

I am only expressing my appreciation for Jin's great performances here. Nothing wrong with that. Jin, an 18-year-old boy/guy, delivered 2 clean programs under great pressure with 6 quads in total, including 2 hardest quad lutz, which have never been done by any skater before. Don't you think it is a great achievement for him? Even Chan's brilliant FS cannot eclipse Jin's outstanding skates here. This is the sport, and its unpredictability is the very appeal of it, so Never Say "IF..."

BTW, Jin's final scores are all hard earned by his fearless efforts in competitions, not any generous gifts from anybody, for luck will never randomly strike.

Boyang's jumping skills are nothing short of admirable, but here's the thing: would he be able to cleanly land 2 quads in his SP and 4 in his FS if he were doing the same level transitions in and out of jumps AND the same difficulty of edge work throughout the programs that the top guys are doing? I highly doubt it. That's why scores like these (his PCS increase through the season, or the GOE he gets on jumps with no transitions) are sending the completely wrong message, to other up and coming skaters and possibly even to Boyang himself, in that he doesn't really need to invest that much energy into working on his PCS after all, because if he constantly delivers clean programs, the PCS will start to increase anyways.

So no, I don't think he should be at a stage right now where he can claim the 8th highest total competition score ever, and very nearly run off with the gold here. So thank god really for Patrick Chan finally showing up with that unbelievably brilliant free skate to take the gold, because figure skating should not evolve into a pure jumping fest at the expense of everything else.

 

[MaiKatze]

I think there is nothing wrong with using the system to your advantage and that's what Boyang Jin is doing. He gets his points from his incredible jumps. Every skater is free to do that - and I bet if others had the ability, they would, even if that affected their artistry. I think he is the one to look out for in the future, 2018 is soon. Boyang is young and there are many areas where he can improve. If his jumps fail him, he has a problem and will go down the ranks quickly. So that's added pressure for him.

 

[Sweet Dream]

Boyang's jumping skills are nothing short of admirable, but here's the thing: would he be able to cleanly land 2 quads in his SP and 4 in his FS if he were doing the same level transitions in and out of jumps AND the same difficulty of edge work throughout the programs that the top guys are doing? I highly doubt it. That's why scores like these (his PCS increase through the season, or the GOE he gets on jumps with no transitions) are sending the completely wrong message, to other up and coming skaters and possibly even to Boyang himself, in that he doesn't really need to invest that much energy into working on his PCS after all, because if he constantly delivers clean programs, the PCS will start to increase anyways.

So no, I don't think he should be at a stage right now where he can claim the 8th highest total competition score ever, and very nearly run off with the gold here. So thank god really for Patrick Chan finally showing up with that unbelievably brilliant free skate to take the gold, because figure skating should not evolve into a pure jumping fest at the expense of everything else.

Again, transitions. Even without the golden transtions, can any other top skater do a single quad lutz in competitions? Chan has got what he deserved in the game while Jin was rewarded for his excellent & difficult jump elements, so what's the problem? Jin is only making his senior debut at international events this season, and he has great potential to be future world champion. I have no doubt about that. He should be proud of what he has achieved so far! :thumbsup:

 

[tureis]

Right, no one else can do a 4Lz. But should Boyang's 4Lz automatically bring along an increasing number of positive GOEs on every element he does? Spins where he almost comes to a standstill? Ask him to do a level 4 spin at Patrick's or Yuzu's speed and centered rotation (or even Javi's who is clearly behind those two on spin quality) and he may not have enough goods left to rotate the next triple, let alone a quad. And I'm not even getting into PCS territory then. He may very well catch up in all these areas that make the top skaters stand out, as Boyang clearly is a super talent with great potential. But he should not be rewarded even before he starts to show substantial improvement.

 

[silverlake22]

I love him, but Boyang's LP performance outside his jumps are just so...Baaaaaaaad. OMG Lori, please help my panda bear.

Agree. Jin has artistic potential, I actually like his SP and think his artistry does not seem bad at all there, but the FS is just not a good program. The music is repetitive, the half hearted lasso choreo is rather shtick-ish. Jin and Yan both could benefit hugely from better programs. They are so talented but the programs are doing them no favors.

 

[silverlake22]

I'd say he still has an outside shot at the podium. Ice is slippery

I heard Shoma is working on 4lo! Maybe it's effected his 4t? I think if he can land his quads he has a chance to medal at Worlds. Yan and Chan were amazing here, but consistency isn't always their friends, plus they each only have 1 quad too. Shoma also has a decent PCS cushion over Han Yan and Jin. Mura won't be at Worlds so that's one guy he won't have to worry about at Worlds. Also, with D10 being injured I'm not sure if we can expect him to skate his best at Worlds.

I think Shoma has a chance at the podium at Worlds, but he'll probably need mistakes from one or more of Yuzu, Javi, Patrick, and maybe Boyang. Skating clean I think he'd still beat a clean Han Yan, he lost quite a bit of points in the FS because his second 4t was << and also got the +REP deduction along with -3 GOEs, and he didn't have a 3rd combo. So I think 4th-6th place is most likely for Shoma, but he definitely still has a chance at the podium IMO.

 

[da96103]

This was really an exceptionally well-skated competition at the top. Unfortunate results for the Americans, though I'm not putting a lot of faith in them these days. I hope when Donald Trump becomes POTUS that his call to make America great again will extend to non-ice dance disciplines of figure skating .

If Donald Trump becomes POTUS, wouldn't he be sending:

1. Nathan Chen back to China
2. Mirai Nagasu back to Japan
3. Polina Edmunds back to Russia?

 

[ice coverage]

If Donald Trump becomes POTUS, wouldn't he be sending:

1. Nathan Chen back to China
2. Mirai Nagasu back to Japan
3. Polina Edmunds back to Russia?

Nathan, Mirai, and Polina all were born in the U.S.

The only country Donald Trump could send them "back" to is the U.S.

 

[Shayuki]

If Donald Trump becomes POTUS, wouldn't he be sending:

1. Nathan Chen back to China
2. Mirai Nagasu back to Japan
3. Polina Edmunds back to Russia?

And himself back to wherever his ancestors are from? Only like 5mil of Americans would stay, then?

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I was wondering if Max could get some advice from Elvis Stojko, now that Elvis has returned from Mexico and re-connected with the skating world. Elvis was not a classical artist, but he managed to find programs that suited him and expressed his own personality. He was pretty successful, in the end, though he often attracted the same sort of criticism that Max does.

Nah... Elvis would just tell him to butch it up and avoid anything remotely elegant or outside Max's comfort zone.

 

[Meoima]

Nathan, Mirai, and Polina all were born in the U.S.
The only country Donald Trump could send them "back" to is the U.S.

Didn't Trump said they would get rid of the "born in US you're US citizen" policy?