2017 Four Continents Men SP

[xox]

there was a huuge drop

Unfortunately he has often had under rotations. This time he got called out. Combined with lack of speed edges and power results in current score.

 

[Mathman]

...judges are scoring PCS like it is second TES score...

I think that there is legitimately some overlap. The Program Component Scores are the judges' opportunity to give their opinion as to the quality and effectiveness of the program taken as a whole. If you incorporate your highlight elements -- the big jumps, etc. -- into the choreography, this ought to be a plus for the CH score, and if you flub your quad, that reduces the overall impact of the program in terms of both presentation and choreography.

For musical interpretation, a highlight element landed right on the beat of the music is a plus and a fall is a minus in terms of INT.

When it comes to PCSs, I am not too exercised about bullet points, etc. More important, IMHO, is: How did the program as a whole grab you?

By this criterion I do not dispute the fact that Nathan Chen's performance-taken-as-a-whole was a hum-dinger, while Chan and Hanyu took a small relative PCS hit despite Patrick's mature balletic grace and the unique Hanyu-ness of Yuzuru's skating. Nail those quads; your PCS will automatically go up. :yes:

 

[xeyra]

Four judges liked it, three judges didn't, and two were neutral. That's why they have nine judges.

I understand that GOEs are very much a way for judges to manifest their preferences over the way an element is executed and understand that people judge things differently, hence the subjectivity. But knowing that there's supposed to be actual rules and guidelines and bullet points for GOEs makes me slightly amused looking at protocols with how little consensus there seems to be sometimes over those very same elements. I mean, did that jump match the bullet points necessary for a +1 or a +2, or not? Then why did it get some -1s!? Cue all the discussions on politics, federations, judge bias.

I think this is why artistics gymnastics has always been my sport of choice. I don't understand a thing about its scoring and I can't see protocols for them, but I understand when a gymnast does well and what is more difficult or better executed, so I always take the scores given at face value and accept them well. Figure skating is weirder in this respect with the COP rules, because, for example, the whole rotating jumps and falling is less costly than popping a jump is something that takes a bit to get used to!

 

[blue_idealist]

They definitely picked the team. It's not the first time Eurosport (as great as their commentary is) got something wrong.

They also said Kevin Reynolds was third at Nationals THIS year. He was 2nd.

 

[el henry]

Fell asleep during the mens sp. Just catching up. I am curious because I just watched Jasons sp on British Eurosport and they said that the US mens world team hasn't been decided yet? That they will decide based on the results of 4cc? I thought they already picked the mens world team.

Jason has been named to the Worlds' team.

http://www.usfsa.org/story?id=90301&type=media

USFS doesn't play the "waiting game", but names at Nats. If B Esp said that, I usually love those guys, but not so:roll5:

ETA: I just do NOT type fast enough. Sorry for repeating what others have said.

 

[4everchan]

The sports goes through its phases. I think the toughest competitors will endure through those different phases. Patrick has seen the sport at different phases and did what he can to compete. That's all you can do.

My post is not just about Patrick. I was actually more thinking about guys like han yan and jason brown or those who don't have quads but show very nice skating

 

[Mrs. P]

My post is not just about Patrick. I was actually more thinking about guys like han yan and jason brown or those who don't have quads but show very nice skating

Well I'm thinking about them too.

Jason doesn't really lament too much about people landing all the quads. He sees it as a challenge he needs to respond to. Maybe he'll never reach that point, however, he's a pretty driven person (as is Patrick) and he's not going to stop trying.

And Han Yan did land a quad i the SP......he would have scored higher had he not messed up on spins...it sounds like he had an injury that caused him to have problems with them.

 

[Yatagarasu]

When it comes to PCSs, I am not too exercised about bullet points, etc. More important, IMHO, is: How did the program as a whole grab you?:

That's not how that works and shouldn't because if it does, we might as well cancel figure skating as a sport and proclaim it to be a reality show.

 

[chuckm]

Jason has a bigger problem than not having a quad right now: he has lost so much training time with his injury that he is not really competition ready, hence the failed 3a and the 3z<. There's only about 6 weeks until Worlds and the question is can he get back into competition shape without reaggravating the stress fracture in his foot.

 

[KatGrace1925]

yes, saw that. outrageous. patrick's must never, nay, CAN NEVER be less than 9.50. should be 9.75-10 every time if the judges at least pretended to be fair. ding him when he pops jumps and falls but don't underscore him in pcs. seriously. it's unprofessional.

Honestly to me, Patrick didn't quite seem like his lovely self. But idk, it seems a bit odd to have him so low in ss.

 

[Sabrina]

I have just watched Nam Nguyen and I have no idea why he was scored so low. His Axel and Quads looked OK...Not the best SS, still it's weird.

 

[Mrs. P]

Jason has a bigger problem than not having a quad right now: he has lost so much training time with his injury that he is not really competition ready, hence the failed 3a and the 3z<. There's only about 6 weeks until Worlds and the question is can he get back into competition shape without reaggravating the stress fracture in his foot.

And if he's not and/or gets injured, he'll withdraw. No need to lose sleep over it.

Just enjoy that your favorites did well!

 

[kimganos]

Nathan Chen has emerged as a major threat to Yuzuru Hanyu. Chen is better at quadruple jumps than Hanyu and he could beat Hanyu at the World championships. Nathan Chen used to be inconsistent but his quadruple jumps are much more stable than before as his skills have significantly improved in the second half of this season.

Nathan is a threat to everyone. I wouldn't say that he is better then Hanyu at quads but he is certainly showing so far that he is more consistent. When Hanyu is on his quads and his triple axel are outstanding.

 

[xeyra]

I have just watched Nam Nguyen and I have no idea why he was scored so low. His Axel and Quads looked OK...Not the best SS, still it's weird.

He unfortunately got underrotations on all his jumping passes.

 

[guitarist]

As much as I love Yuzuru I still don't like this season's SP (and it's NOT because of the purple pants of doom!). But ouch, that jump. His face when he saw the score was priceless, though

And Nathan truly is frightening. His jumps may not be as beautiful as top-of-his-game-Yuzuru's, but he sure is consistent!

 

[Skater Boy]

Nathan is a threat to everyone. I wouldn't say that he is better then Hanyu at quads but he is certainly showing so far that he is more consistent. When Hanyu is on his quads and his triple axel are outstanding.

Life isn't fair I like Nathan as a person. He seems to have good work ethic - I mean the guy came back from major surgery But for some reason things come relatively easy to him - he is getting amazing pcs considering, I know his short is better, he does not get the edges, glide, strength or mastery compared especially to even an off Chan. I don't think he should be ahead of Brown either. If I were Canada I would be tempted to dump Reynolds and go with Nadeau who is up and coming. He really has not regained his up and cmong status form 2013 and doesn't have the skating skills.

 

[Plisskin]

I watched the SP's this morning but didn't have time to comment because going to my Japanese class was more important. Anyway, this 46+ page thread before the competition started lived up to the hype I think. There were some unfortunate stumbles by the likes of Yuzu, Patrick, and Jason, but overall what a good competition. I'm so hyped for Nathan, and yet worried that his career will end up like Lipinski with an early retirement after an OGM or just medaling. I really want to see this kid grow artistically. With his tech and untapped artistry, he could be incredibly brilliant. I love Shoma Uno, however, I'm not sure I would have given that skate 100+. In slow mo his 4T looked a bit under and should have been UR'd like they did with Nam. But overall good scoring and I hope the FS is even more well skated.

 

[karne]

Love how everyone's kvetching about the PCS of the bigger country skaters, but hey, the little country ones can get stiffed, that's fine, apparently...

Yes, I'm salty, because I'm now realising that it wouldn't have mattered if Brendan had stood up that 3A. They'd have still shoved invalid spin Han Yan above him on big country PCS and he'd have still missed the last group.

 

[KatGrace1925]

Love how everyone's kvetching about the PCS of the bigger country skaters, but hey, the little country ones can get stiffed, that's fine, apparently...

Yes, I'm salty, because I'm now realising that it wouldn't have mattered if Brendan had stood up that 3A. They'd have still shoved invalid spin Han Yan above him on big country PCS and he'd have still missed the last group.

I'll be salty with you! Brendan had such a fantastic program besides the fall, I definitely would have had him higher!

 

[noskates]

I really enjoyed Brendan's skate. It's almost as if mens figure skating is taking the route of ice dance in that you have to earn your chops and prove yourself for years before you get the attention. I thought he was underscored. It's too bad he missed the 3A. Again - as I keep harping on - do NOT like the jumping beans that don't have the poise and grace. Brendan has it!