2017 GPF Free Dance

[ChanClan]

Two wrongs don't make a right and honestly, the more acerbic and over the top comments don't come from P/C fans (there are about 3 nut-cases among P/C fans and they are vocal, I'll give you that. But when you read the rhetoric, you understand what they are). I don't want to go into this rehash but demeaning comments like "first year skaters" , no intricacy in their steps, just look at their feet (! my favorite ), one trick-ponies and all around talks of being technically sub-par compared to V/M are plenty. I think everyone can see that we have 2 exceptional teams here. Let's just enjoy their uniqueness, is all I am saying.

you seem to be talking about something else and not at all answering anything that I've said.

I like pc, i really do, and I think they can get even better then they are now but as someone who likes the sport as a SPORT and not so much as who can be the most artistic, I just don't see the full extent of what pc can actually do in THIS FD program. I think they can make it more difficult while still keeping it as fluid as they have it now as to not upset the people who like the artistic side more. I'm just saying, for a team as good as pc, they just don't seem (in my eyes anyway) to be doing what you'd expect the top team to do.

 

[ancientpeas]

You probably heard the word "aber" which means "but".

Which is kind of funny when you think aber is close to uber and but is close to butt(head).

 

[OS]

The incredible match up between V/M and P/C is like torning between heart and minds - of such incredible spectacular standards, the likes we have never seen. I vastly prefer them BOTH over D/W.

V/M is like my heart, the fire, the master, the power, the passion who demand their rightful legendary place in the historical kingdom, sealing their legacy in the dynasty. P/C is like my mind, sensibility, cool, aloof, seemingly effortlessly natural born, who came and simply be, quietly strengthening their position with every glide.

The mind may have won over the heart this time around, but by the time of the Olympics, will my heart wins?!

The question is who will occupy my soul? Can they both take in turns? Why not both?

 

[peepsquick]

you seem to be talking about something else and not at all answering anything that I've said.

I like pc, i really do, and I think they can get even better then they are now but as someone who likes the sport as a SPORT and not so much as who can be the most artistic, I just don't see the full extent of what pc can actually do in THIS FD program. I think they can make it more difficult while still keeping it as fluid as they have it now as to not upset the people who like the artistic side more. I'm just saying, for a team as good as pc, they just don't seem (in my eyes anyway) to be doing what you'd expect the top team to do.

Yes, that it also what Charlie White commented about recently: they steer their own boat and don't go with what is expected by many in this sport: changing your type of program every season. It takes guts. I also think that last year gave us a glimpse of what is ahead: pushing the boundaries but in their own style. I am ready for it. This Olympic year FD is more a summary of their journey since 2014 than a foray into new intricacies of their own style. They might even work on spectacular integrated lifts in the future. I actually thought that the one thy used for "Home" and " Happiness" was a good example of that.

 

[bramweld]

V/M were too nervy today. They need to go back to their state of mind at SC where their edges seemed much smoother. Scott was also trying too hard. I'd rather they skate within themselves than go for too much come PC and find themselves off the podium.

PC were okay today but I thought things were crisper in France. There were times when I wasn't really enthralled. When though will they ever dock their scores for Gabby's poor extensions?

Notwithstanding the level of ice dancing at this competition was spectacular.

 

[MelDee]

Yes, that it also what Charlie White commented about recently: they steer their own boat and don't go with what is expected by many in this sport: changing your type of program every season. It takes guts. I also think that last year gave us a glimpse of what is ahead: pushing the boundaries but in their own style. I am ready for it. This Olympic year FD is more a summary of their journey since 2014 than a foray into new intricacies of their own style. They might even work on spectacular integrated lifts in the future. I actually thought that the one thy used for "Home" and " Happiness" was a good example of that.

Everything you said. EVERYTHING!

 

[ChanClan]

[/B]

Yes, that it also what Charlie White commented about recently: they steer their own boat and don't go with what is expected by many in this sport: changing your type of program every season. It takes guts. I also think that last year gave us a glimpse of what is ahead: pushing the boundaries but in their own style. I am ready for it. This Olympic year FD is more a summary of their journey since 2014 than a foray into new intricacies of their own style. They might even work on spectacular integrated lifts in the future. I actually thought that the one thy used for "Home" and " Happiness" was a good example of that.

I know it's an Olympic season so no one is going to go out of their comfort zone but I just think they can do more with what they have and are choosing not to based on the fact that they are getting good scores. I like winning as much as anyone but if they really want to go down as a legendary team, they need to up the difficulty and change things up now, not in the future.

 

[Ares]

Is there something that Tessa & Scott can do to edge out P/C? What do you think? The fact that every judge put their rivals above them and that Gabrielle & Guillaume won every PCS category is alarming for V/M & quite strange. You would expect more variety from the judges in their marks due to how excellent & competitive both teams are.

 

[GGFan]

Is there something that Tessa & Scott can do to edge out P/C? What do you think? The fact that every judge put their rivals above them and that Gabrielle & Guillaume won every PCS category is alarming for V/M & quite strange. You would expect more variety from the judges in their marks due to how excellent & competitive both teams are.

I think the tea leaves are saying that it's out of their hands. At best I can see them entering the free with a 1 point lead, but they'll lose it in the free. I think P/C would have to make a visible mistake (not a small bobble) to lose the Olympics now.

 

[MaiKatze]

Which is kind of funny when you think aber is close to uber and but is close to butt(head).

'Uber' is actually a german word. It's origin is the german word "über" which means 'above'.

 

[ancientpeas]

'Uber' is actually a german word. It's origin is the german word "über" which means 'above'.

:thumbsup: the Germans have given us so many great words.

 

[MaiKatze]

:thumbsup: the Germans have given us so many great words.

I imagine watching the ONE stream was very frustrating for you guys, because a) Daniel Weiss does speak with a dialect, and not 'high german' and b) he never shuts up (He actually did during V/M and P/C and announced that beforehand) and repeats what he said before a hundred times. He is extremely biased and did another thing that's 'in' in german TV which I absolutely despise. He reads messages by viewers he got from facebook in real time. I don't care what Max Mustermann from Musterhausen thinks about Nathan Chen's artistic value. I read Goldenskate for that. And he thinks the viewers are too stupid to understand the tech box. Yeah, no. German Eurosport is better, but unfortunately not free or in HD.

 

[Crystal7]

I imagine watching the ONE stream was very frustrating for you guys, because a) Daniel Weiss does speak with a dialect, and not 'high german' and b) he never shuts up (He actually did during V/M and P/C and announced that beforehand) and repeats what he said before a hundred times. He is extremely biased and did another thing that's 'in' in german TV which I absolutely despise. He reads messages by viewers he got from facebook in real time. I don't care what Max Mustermann from Musterhausen thinks about Nathan Chen's artistic value. I read Goldenskate for that. And he thinks the viewers are too stupid to understand the tech box. Yeah, no. German Eurosport is better, but unfortunately not free or in HD.

Was it Daniel Weiss today? I guess I've been watching ONE for the first time and, it was okay. He was chatty, but not too much. Especially in comparison to yt streaming from yesterday, when that Russian guy was talking constantly, just with no pause. That was so annoying.

 

[Bcash]

Is there something that Tessa & Scott can do to edge out P/C? What do you think? The fact that every judge put their rivals above them and that Gabrielle & Guillaume won every PCS category is alarming for V/M & quite strange. You would expect more variety from the judges in their marks due to how excellent & competitive both teams are.

I think last season V/M enjoyed a honeymoon phase with the judges after their return, riding the momentum of that great SD. A comeback of past champions always gives people that adrenaline rush. That phase got ruptured somewhat after the FD at Worlds.

P/C made many mistakes in competition last season, did not have the best SD program-wise or the best competitive mindset. But ever since that record-setting FD in Helsinki it's almost like they've been released into a new mindset with which they've been confidently building on past experience, improving their skating and mental approach. Also at this age and stage in their career they have much more room to grow than a veteran team like V/M, so the improvement in quality and consistency is more pronounced in judges eyes. Add to that the seemingly mixed-reaction to V/M's FD choice this season, and their less than perfectly clean performances in competition, we have the current dynamics.

But there's still time for things to change.

 

[deneuved]

I imagine watching the ONE stream was very frustrating for you guys, because a) Daniel Weiss does speak with a dialect, and not 'high german' and b) he never shuts up (He actually did during V/M and P/C and announced that beforehand) and repeats what he said before a hundred times. He is extremely biased and did another thing that's 'in' in german TV which I absolutely despise. He reads messages by viewers he got from facebook in real time. I don't care what Max Mustermann from Musterhausen thinks about Nathan Chen's artistic value. I read Goldenskate for that. And he thinks the viewers are too stupid to understand the tech box. Yeah, no. German Eurosport is better, but unfortunately not free or in HD.

I quite like Daniel to be honest and I liked his interaction with facebook. Keep in mind that most people watching are no experts. But yes, he should shut up more. But we should be grateful that ONE/ARD will broadcast Euros and Worlds - for most people in Germany, the channel is in HD and for free (something that Eurosport is not)

 

[Anyasnake]

Is there something that Tessa & Scott can do to edge out P/C? What do you think? The fact that every judge put their rivals above them and that Gabrielle & Guillaume won every PCS category is alarming for V/M & quite strange. You would expect more variety from the judges in their marks due to how excellent & competitive both teams are.

Interpretation of the music/timing (IN) and Performance (PE) are a virtual tie in PCS. We'll leave that out.

There is a gap in transitions (TR)/Composition(CO) that is new because in the past V/M use to have TR in the bag and not anymore. I feel this 2 components goes together, except that you have to add the "quality" factor in TR.

Both teams have VERY different transitions, not only in the feet but in their whole dance and body movements. One very good thing with both team, you never "wait" for something to happen. It's already happening.
P/C are using the contemporary dance style. There are a lot of highlights "hidden" by details they created with Marie-France and Jeffrey Cirio (who choreographed the body moves in their FD). Their TR are about lightness, and floating steps and moves. First it's light in the feet, then fast and shaper on the 2nd part and goes back to lightness.
V/M are the complete opposite. It started with sharpness and goes until the 1st half of the program. Then it's powerful but on another interpretation, since it's not the tango anymore. But it stays powerful through the whole program and I understand why they want to play with that - it's one of their biggest strength.

Now the almost "tripping" of Scott in the beginning didn't break the choreo so it's fine. I don't necessarily enjoy the dancing at the beginning of "Roxanne", I think it could be better.
I rewatch after the twizzles and before the choreographic spin. While there are some moments that are great, some left me wondering if it looks very clean live. It surely looks crisp. But Scott gave some much interpretation in his whole body that it ended up looking ... too much ? For some judges it's not the most aesthetically pleasing I think.
The TR after the Cist was better since the GP series I think. Also after the 2nd lift until the spin, it's smoother and goes better with "Come what may".
Before the Dist, it's more or less crossovers and emphasize on body movement but the music build so much I tend to expect something more flamboyant I think. You think something is going to happen (that has to do with the music though). Their best transition is before the dying, the steps before the choreo lift where she falls. Very good.
So these are great TR but with some question marks left because the Tango is so fast and secondly, the use of the music with the TR.

For the difference in composition I'll go very subjective on this one because I saw a lot of people saying this especially on twitter, not just me : those step sequences needs to be reworked. Something is not clicking in the Dist and while there are great moments in the Cist, there is a sense of it being too busy.

For the skating skills being lower : I wonder if it has anything to do with these same reasons in TR and CO. In the end you know what V/M are capable of, right ? But you still look at the program. If it feels rushed you might not give it. And I think the GOEs with step sequences have a big correlation with SS, because this is where you stop and say : "steps are better/better executed so I have to go with them for the SS". There is actually a logic to that.

Before the competition, I was expecting both PCS from these teams to even out WAY more (more like in the SD when you'll get better PCS if you were simply cleaner). But truthfully after the FD skating back to back, I didn't really have any hesitation. I feel there is something maybe more cohesive about P/C's FD and less about V/M FD, purely by the construction of it, and all the judges seem to agree with me. That sends a signal.
I'm a big fan of P/C (whom I prefer) but also a big fan of V/M. I did expect the skating back to back from P/C and V/M to highlight 10 times more the FD of the latter (whom I was hesitant from their 1st outing) and not at all.
(Sorry for my awfully long posts today )

 

[Ares]

Interpretation of the music/timing (IN) and Performance (PE) are a virtual tie in PCS. We'll leave that out.

There is a gap in transitions (TR)/Composition(CO) that is new because in the past V/M use to have TR in the bag and not anymore. I feel this 2 components goes together, except that you have to add the "quality" factor in TR.

Both teams have VERY different transitions, not only in the feet but in their whole dance and body movements. One very good thing with both team, you never "wait" for something to happen. It's already happening.
P/C are using the contemporary dance style. There are a lot of highlights "hidden" by details they created with Marie-France and Jeffrey Cirio (who choreographed the body moves in their FD). Their TR are about lightness, and floating steps and moves. First it's light in the feet, then fast and shaper on the 2nd part and goes back to lightness.
V/M are the complete opposite. It started with sharpness and goes until the 1st half of the program. Then it's powerful but on another interpretation, since it's not the tango anymore. But it stays powerful through the whole program and I understand why they want to play with that - it's one of their biggest strength.

Now the almost "tripping" of Scott in the beginning didn't break the choreo so it's fine. I don't necessarily enjoy the dancing at the beginning of "Roxanne", I think it could be better.
I rewatch after the twizzles and before the choreographic spin. While there are some moments that are great, some left me wondering if it looks very clean live. It surely looks crisp. But Scott gave some much interpretation in his whole body that it ended up looking ... too much ? For some judges it's not the most aesthetically pleasing I think.
The TR after the Cist was better since the GP series I think. Also after the 2nd lift until the spin, it's smoother and goes better with "Come what may".
Before the Dist, it's more or less crossovers and emphasize on body movement but the music build so much I tend to expect something more flamboyant I think. You think something is going to happen (that has to do with the music though). Their best transition is before the dying, the steps before the choreo lift where she falls. Very good.
So these are great TR but with some question marks left because the Tango is so fast and secondly, the use of the music with the TR.

For the difference in composition I'll go very subjective on this one because I saw a lot of people saying this especially on twitter, not just me : those step sequences needs to be reworked. Something is not clicking in the Dist and while there are great moments in the Cist, there is a sense of it being too busy.

For the skating skills being lower : I wonder if it has anything to do with these same reasons in TR and CO. In the end you know what V/M are capable of, right ? But you still look at the program. If it feels rushed you might not give it. And I think the GOEs with step sequences have a big correlation with SS, because this is where you stop and say : "steps are better/better executed so I have to go with them for the SS". There is actually a logic to that.

Before the competition, I was expecting both PCS from these teams to even out WAY more (more like in the SD when you'll get better PCS if you were simply cleaner). But truthfully after the FD skating back to back, I didn't really have any hesitation. I feel there is something maybe more cohesive about P/C's FD and less about V/M FD, purely by the construction of it, and all the judges seem to agree with me. That sends a signal.
I'm a big fan of P/C (whom I prefer) but also a big fan of V/M. I did expect the skating back to back from P/C and V/M to highlight 10 times more the FD of the latter (whom I was hesitant from their 1st outing) and not at all.
(Sorry for my awfully long posts today )

I am sorry for my inaccuracy ... I guess I read down the numbers song. It is still though more or less points out to unanimous tendency but there's nothing mischievous behind it in my view.

 

[Tonichelle]

I have to say I'm just not feeling the Moulin Rouge program... at all. I don't think it's MR fatigue, either. To me it just does not feel like an Olympic program. I don't know if it's just because I expect different/more from V/M or what... it just falls flat to me. And can they please do something other than her crotch in his face for their lift?!

I'm also underwhelmed by the French. Can't put my finger on what it is, but their SD's rhumba section annoys me to no end.

This was an underwhelming competition for me, even the Shibutanis for me were just okay. Anna and Luca were actually my favorite free dance... it may be "simple" or even "outdated", but it was just lovely and light.

 

[Ares]

I have to say I'm just not feeling the Moulin Rouge program... at all. I don't think it's MR fatigue, either. To me it just does not feel like an Olympic program. I don't know if it's just because I expect different/more from V/M or what... it just falls flat to me. And can they please do something other than her crotch in his face for their lift?!

I'm also underwhelmed by the French. Can't put my finger on what it is, but their SD's rhumba section annoys me to no end.

This was an underwhelming competition for me, even the Shibutanis for me were just okay. Anna and Luca were actually my favorite free dance... it may be "simple" or even "outdated", but it was just lovely and light.

That "can't put my finger on it" thing can be that shift in their SD music with superimposed drum that annoy some people or / and Ed Sheeran as their Latin choice in general. To be honest I expected much, much less alluring program when they revealed the music - they exceeded my expectation - I really like how they enter their partial step, it looks like effortless flight with matching, sizzling body movement to boot. In fact it is great vehicle for them. But I can fathom the complaints.

 

[alain06fr]

I know, right? ISU has many things to fix/change in their rules, and the fact that federation president can be judge is definitely one of them. Not the first time we see that happening.

True, the ISU should clean up some of their rules but I would expect Leanna Caron, president of the Canadian federation, in charge of one Grand-Prix event, to set an example and never act as both fed. president and judge... whatever the ISU rules state or not.