Why did their lift get level 2?
I am not sure but it seemed is was a problem with the exist
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2017 Russian Nationals Pairs FS
- Thread starter sabinfire
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I am not sure but it seemed is was a problem with the exist
Hell YES!!!!! S/K's free is a masterpiece in the making. Thank you gods!!!!!
Not sure I get the outcry. In a rare occasion, the PCS were judged as they should be and people still not happy. There is a mile gap in second mark between T/M and S/K. Particularly in the FP and when neither is clean that what decides it.
Not sure I get the outcry. In a rare occasion, the PCS were judged as they should be and people still not happy. There is a mile gap in second mark between T/M and S/K. Particularly in the FP and when neither is clean that what decides it.
I know its been a dead horse that's been beaten to death a million times over but T/M DESPERATELY need better programs. If their LP had been as strong as their SP then I think they would have pulled it off but its notably weaker. This is a competition where you can clearly see them being let down by the people around them because with how both teams performed they should have won this. They need and deserve better then what they are getting.
Watching both teams back to back S/K looked like mature secure vets while T/M looked much younger, and despite everything to the contrary, inexperienced newcomers. Their not on equal footing yet despite everything that happened this season so far. We still have Euros and worlds and if T/M can beat S/K at just one of them then perhaps starting next season the footing will become more equal in the eyes of the fed. But right now S/K are still #1 based on previous seasons and T/M were only #1 by default during this GP season because S/K were out injured.
It really comes down to T/M presenting themselves better then they have been
Watching both teams back to back S/K looked like mature secure vets while T/M looked much younger, and despite everything to the contrary, inexperienced newcomers. Their not on equal footing yet despite everything that happened this season so far. We still have Euros and worlds and if T/M can beat S/K at just one of them then perhaps starting next season the footing will become more equal in the eyes of the fed. But right now S/K are still #1 based on previous seasons and T/M were only #1 by default during this GP season because S/K were out injured.
It really comes down to T/M presenting themselves better then they have been
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I love Stolbova and Klimov very much, especially her.
But this is how I would've expected them to look in May/June of the off season, they have an amazing LP but aren't in great shape. They should've been 2nd, and to be blunt these two performances could leave them in 7th or 8th place at Worlds. They have a LOT of work to do but it's an outstanding LP. They wouldn't even get low 9's internationally with the shape they're in though, weak choreography aside Tarasova & Morozov easily won this. They're much more prepared but the material doesn't work, the Russian judges are trying to protect Stolbova & Klimov right now IMO. It doesn't bother me too much though other than the sake of fairness, and I really hope they can get back to where they were.
But this is how I would've expected them to look in May/June of the off season, they have an amazing LP but aren't in great shape. They should've been 2nd, and to be blunt these two performances could leave them in 7th or 8th place at Worlds. They have a LOT of work to do but it's an outstanding LP. They wouldn't even get low 9's internationally with the shape they're in though, weak choreography aside Tarasova & Morozov easily won this. They're much more prepared but the material doesn't work, the Russian judges are trying to protect Stolbova & Klimov right now IMO. It doesn't bother me too much though other than the sake of fairness, and I really hope they can get back to where they were.
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The outcry is the scores close to 10 in PCS, with multiple mistakes, which would've never happened with an international panel with the way both teams skated.
Do you think Stolbova and Klimov gave a 9.5-9.75 performance? I don't think the outcry is hard to understand, disagreeing is one thing but understanding is another. I greatly prefer S/K overall, but...
Your physical conditioning and how well you can get through the great choreography also matters in the PCS, and Tarasova/Morozov had a cleaner performance and weren't gasping for air at the end of it.
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I think S/K's programs have the makings of a modern masterpiece if skated cleanly and even with the mistakes they were still more interesting to watch then T/M but they shouldn't have won. Yes there is rightfully a natural PCS gap between the two but S/K weren't full strength artistically or technically and therefore their PCS advantage should have taken a hit. T/M did more then enough technically to make it up really.
As a T/M fan I want them to make the big move, ala Yagudin and G/P, and take charge of their careers and make a move that will bring them to the next level. Surely the results here is the big neon sign moment that screams it out to them
They did more then enough technically here, and S/K made more then enough big mistakes, and enough results wise all season long to make a case to the fed. to consider them as national champions but their fed. pretty much told them, "yeah you did great but nope you're still #2." VERY frustrating 
If not this doesn't force them to make some changes for next season then I ask what will?
As a T/M fan I want them to make the big move, ala Yagudin and G/P, and take charge of their careers and make a move that will bring them to the next level. Surely the results here is the big neon sign moment that screams it out to them
They did more then enough technically here, and S/K made more then enough big mistakes, and enough results wise all season long to make a case to the fed. to consider them as national champions but their fed. pretty much told them, "yeah you did great but nope you're still #2." VERY frustrating If not this doesn't force them to make some changes for next season then I ask what will? 
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S/K beat T/M in TES actually.
T/M made costly mistakes in COP, for example they got only 0.96 for their SBS 3S (2S & -GOEs), S/K got 4.44 for their easier 2A.
The underotated 2T in their 3T2T2T means negative GOEs. They got 4.50 for it. S/K got 7.20 for their 3T2T.
Lv2 lift means they lost 1 point base value on that element compared to S/K's Lv4.
S/K attempted throw 3Flip, that's 0.50 point more in BV than the throw 3Loop T/M did.
So it's the little things that added up. It might not seem fair to some people but that's how COP works (for now).
Have we been watching the same competition? I thought the one gasping was Morozov who couldn't even handle the last lift. T/M had no excuse to make those number of mistakes to a degree to end up being beat in BASE VALUE by a team that literally resumed skating two weeks ago.
And don't let me start with performance, there is a vast gap in SS, IN, PE, and CH between the two teams. Do I think S/K could have got a point or so less, perhaps, but then so should have T/M. It's all relative.
At this point, I think T/M are being really let down by their packaging. They may not be the most refined or charismatic performers, but if you give them proper material like their last two SPs, they can sell that well and shine. But the LPs in particular are so underwhelming choreography-wise. I feel as if they are still being treated like a second tier team by their coaches, even though they are contenders now. They need help and a guiding hand in the presentation aspect, but they are far from hopeless. Whenever they have nice material, they do well with it.
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Yes, their LP have been consistently bad.
A move for T/M to other coaches would only happen if they were unhappy with their situation/programs, but I think they more or less blame themselves for the technical mistakes they make and for bad performances, and don't find any blame in their programs. Frankly, I like this season's LP more than the previous ones, but I do agree that things could be better. I think they haven't found their style yet, or worse, they think that these are the types of programs they should be skating.
I can see them trying out different 'images' or 'moods' to portray, but maybe it would be wise to try something with a storyline, or something with development? Anything less... general? I'm even down with warhorses, but it would be nice to see them expressing more various different emotions and connenting with one another. I'd even suggest enlisting the help of a psychologist. I remember reading an interview back in 2012 where Andrew Poje said he was seeing one to bring out a more 'wild' side for their SD.
Anyway, the main thing is that they have to see this as a problem for something to happen, and I'm not sure when or if we're going to get to that point :confused2:
I can see them trying out different 'images' or 'moods' to portray, but maybe it would be wise to try something with a storyline, or something with development? Anything less... general? I'm even down with warhorses, but it would be nice to see them expressing more various different emotions and connenting with one another. I'd even suggest enlisting the help of a psychologist. I remember reading an interview back in 2012 where Andrew Poje said he was seeing one to bring out a more 'wild' side for their SD.
Anyway, the main thing is that they have to see this as a problem for something to happen, and I'm not sure when or if we're going to get to that point :confused2:
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Even with the salchow that is a NO. So may mistakes from S/K horrible wrapping and horrible twist embarrassing but the program is cool but that is about it. It is hard to come back from injury but they are definitely not a first place team. And double axel??? hers looked under rotated too.
That doesn't mean they should be getting anywhere near 9.75, that's the entire point of the outcry. Tarasova and Morozov's PCS don't really matter here when you make as many mistakes as S/K did.
Compare Stolbova and Klimov at the GPF last year and they shouldn't be getting 9's - relative or not they weren't even close to .25 from perfection.
I love Stolbova and Klimov but that was the weakest LP performance we have ever seen from them. (At least since 2012-2013) They aren't anywhere near their optimal condition. A gorgeous LP can only do so much when you aren't as prepared as you can be after being out of competition 8 months.
They're out of physical shape and have a ton of work ahead of them if they legit want to beat a healthy Savchenko & Massot or Sui & Han. Or maybe we can let S/M and S/H get 9.5-10 for performances full of mistakes? Both teams are injured but I'm willing to bet that both teams are in better shape than Stolbova & Klimov...?
The point is that it never would've happened in a million years with an international panel at Euros/Worlds, so in that case it's also all relative.
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It actually does. We are discussing the given competition not their performances before or after. Ready or not, whatever shape whoever is, at this competition, S/K won on both TES and PCS. It's that simple.
No it's not.
I've explained why there's an outcry, if you still don't understand why people are frustrated over the result than I'll stop before it gets too heated. The PCS for Stolbova and Klimov were too high.
I love Stolbova and klimov but you can't justify those PCS, as loved as S/K are the majority of the international skating community just laughed at those PCS marks.
I've explained why there's an outcry, if you still don't understand why people are frustrated over the result than I'll stop before it gets too heated. The PCS for Stolbova and Klimov were too high.
I love Stolbova and klimov but you can't justify those PCS, as loved as S/K are the majority of the international skating community just laughed at those PCS marks.
what majority?
You think S/K deserved 9.75, and you're also just picking and choosing what you want to reply to. 
Take a look around, it's really not too hard to miss. Not many people think S/K should've gotten PCS that high, basically everywhere I've viewed opinions about the competition.
At the very least you shouldn't be so upset about the outcry anymore, somebody has explained it to you for better understanding.
Take a look around, it's really not too hard to miss. Not many people think S/K should've gotten PCS that high, basically everywhere I've viewed opinions about the competition.
At the very least you shouldn't be so upset about the outcry anymore, somebody has explained it to you for better understanding.
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You think S/K deserved 9.75, and you're also just picking and choosing what you want to reply to.
Take a look around, it's really not too hard to miss. Not many people think S/K should've gotten PCS that high, basically everywhere I've viewed opinions about the competition.
At the very least you shouldn't be so upset about the outcry anymore, somebody has explained it to you for better understanding.
still, what majority?
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