2020-21 Retirements, Splits & Partner Changes

CaroLiza_fan

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As for Anna/Radek, there is not much other info than what was written in their instagram profiles. News that noticed that mostly repeat their words. Anna's injuries took her too much time to train properly, so she had to decide this way. She promised she will take part in coaching Radek in the future (as she is older than him) and her club already counts on her as their new coach and technical specialist:
https://www.instagram.com/p/CB_M-GkJuFr/

Firstly, thank you for the reply. I wanted you to see this, as I was curious whether the fact that they are from different parts of the Czech Republic would have caused logistical problems for them during the lockdown. Although Anna has been posting things showing that she was in Prague, Radek hadn't posted anything during the lockdown, so I wasn't sure if he was with her or not. But yesterday, he posted a photo that showed that he is at home.

You know, it is the part about Anna becoming a coach that I am most excited about. As I said in the post I put up in this thread at the time, she is in the enviable position of having been one of the top skaters in her country in both Pairs and Singles. So, being able to draw on her experiences from both categories will set her up to be a great coach.

By the way, I was actually going to copy my initial reaction post into the Fan Fest, but decided not to because posting the same comment in multiple threads is frowned upon. And since the post I was replying to was in here, it made sense to post the reaction in here. But, don't worry, I did read your post in the Fan Fest too.

CaroLiza_fan
 

Olibritt

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[*]Barquero (Castile) / Cónsul (Catalunya)

I see your point, geographical distance can be a problem in this lockdown situation but I think there's something more in all these breakups. As difficult as it must be to share soooo much with a skating partner, in a normal training routine it's easier to follow the same path, everything is scheduled, there's a coaching team taking care of them and there's no time to "think". But, when they stop and spend a lot of time apart from each other, the thinking part and the overthinking appears and the only support for their training is their individual willpower… And the differences appear and the crisis is there, in front of them, individually, to solve or to let go.

On a different topic, "Castile" sounds very funny in this context, especially next to "Catalunya", it’s like going back to a couple of years ago when Catalonia Independence was, apparently, Spanish biggest problem… I'm sure the topic will come back, but no one cares about it today, not even nationalist parties…

I'm not sure if this is of any interest, but "Castile" it's a weird expression nowadays, "Castilla Kingdom" existed in the Middle Ages, Castilian plateau is, in geology, the center of Iberian Peninsula, "Castilian language" it's what we internationally know today as Spanish language, spoken not only in "Castilla" but in lots of countries, there are two autonomous regions in Spain that use the term in their names (Castilla-León and Castilla-La Mancha) but Laura is not from any of them, she is from the autonomous region of Madrid.

I don´t know (nor care) what Ton thinks about Catalonian Independence, but he's from Val d'Aran, a Catalonian Region where the majority of the population said clearly that they will never belong to an independent Catalonia…

Coming back to the topic, IMO, this is a more accurate way to express the different geographical areas they are from:
Barquero (Madrid) / Cónsul (city of Vielha or area of Val d'Aran or Region of Catalonia, as you prefer)
 

flanker

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But first on a senior level ;)
I believe Filatov was doing his best but he didn't surpass Nazarov. K/F got SB in their first competition and couldn't go any better, so... one season was enough to see whether they have any future together.

I understand that the fact they didn't qualify for junior worlds was probably a blow for Liza, but the performances were about the same, not a significant drop (at least for me, for someone who understands ice dancing more than me - and such person is not difficult to find :biggrin: - the drop from 165 to 163 can be probably too big). Bazin is, at least in my view, not exactly a bonanza, he is 24 and his highest success is a silver from Universiade, so I don't expect some sudden progress. But, good luck, of course.
 

flanker

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Firstly, thank you for the reply. I wanted you to see this, as I was curious whether the fact that they are from different parts of the Czech Republic would have caused logistical problems for them during the lockdown. Although Anna has been posting things showing that she was in Prague, Radek hadn't posted anything during the lockdown, so I wasn't sure if he was with her or not. But yesterday, he posted a photo that showed that he is at home.

You know, it is the part about Anna becoming a coach that I am most excited about. As I said in the post I put up in this thread at the time, she is in the enviable position of having been one of the top skaters in her country in both Pairs and Singles. So, being able to draw on her experiences from both categories will set her up to be a great coach.

By the way, I was actually going to copy my initial reaction post into the Fan Fest, but decided not to because posting the same comment in multiple threads is frowned upon. And since the post I was replying to was in here, it made sense to post the reaction in here. But, don't worry, I did read your post in the Fan Fest too.

CaroLiza_fan

I don't think the "regional issue" was an issue in this case. The fact that the training facilities were closed may have caused Anna to think more about the future and how her injuries are preventing her from full training, but I don't think there would be logistic issues in her decision (after all, the transport worked mostly as in normal times here, though busses, trams and trains were nearly empty).

The problem for us is that we don't have a replacement for her. When the whole branch of the sport depeds on one or two atheletes it's like you can close it when that person leaves. Of course, we still expect what Bidař and Zhuk would show in the (near, I hope) future, but if their partnership will turn good, they will probably train mostly in Moscow with Nina Mozer, so not much opportunity for other skaters here to learn from them.
 

CaroLiza_fan

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I see your point, geographical distance can be a problem in this lockdown situation but I think there's something more in all these breakups. As difficult as it must be to share soooo much with a skating partner, in a normal training routine it's easier to follow the same path, everything is scheduled, there's a coaching team taking care of them and there's no time to "think". But, when they stop and spend a lot of time apart from each other, the thinking part and the overthinking appears and the only support for their training is their individual willpower… And the differences appear and the crisis is there, in front of them, individually, to solve or to let go.

I agree, there probably is more to it than just geographic distance. But, it certainly wouldn't have helped to keep the partnership going if they were so far away from each other for the duration fo the lockdown. And you guys had a VERY strict lockdown.

On a different topic, "Castile" sounds very funny in this context, especially next to "Catalunya", it’s like going back to a couple of years ago when Catalonia Independence was, apparently, Spanish biggest problem… I'm sure the topic will come back, but no one cares about it today, not even nationalist parties…

I'm not sure if this is of any interest, but "Castile" it's a weird expression nowadays, "Castilla Kingdom" existed in the Middle Ages, Castilian plateau is, in geology, the center of Iberian Peninsula, "Castilian language" it's what we internationally know today as Spanish language, spoken not only in "Castilla" but in lots of countries, there are two autonomous regions in Spain that use the term in their names (Castilla-León and Castilla-La Mancha) but Laura is not from any of them, she is from the autonomous region of Madrid.

I don´t know (nor care) what Ton thinks about Catalonian Independence, but he's from Val d'Aran, a Catalonian Region where the majority of the population said clearly that they will never belong to an independent Catalonia…

Coming back to the topic, IMO, this is a more accurate way to express the different geographical areas they are from:
Barquero (Madrid) / Cónsul (city of Vielha or area of Val d'Aran or Region of Catalonia, as you prefer)

Oh boys, but I have inadvertantly opened up a can of worms. :drama:

I am a person who is very interested in history. So, when it comes to subdivisions of Spain, I tend to think in terms of the historic kingdoms rather than the current regions that re-use the names. And Madrid was historically right in the middle of Castile. I was actually going to use the more specific term of "New Castile" (which, for those unfamiliar with Spain, is the southern half of Castile), but I felt that might confuse people, who might think it was somewhere in the Americas (à la New Jersey, New York, etc.).

To be honest, I feel sorry that the 2 parts of Castile each got merged with a different historic region. Because whenever mergers occur, it means that the people who are from each part of the new entities lose part of their distinctive identity. And they find it hard to relate to the new entities. I am talking from personal experience here. A few years ago, the number of councils in Northern Ireland was drastically cut. Groups of neighbouring councils were merged into what was termed "Supercouncils". During the COVID-19 pandemic, whenever the figures were being announced, they were broken down according to the new Supercouncil areas. And it caused more confusion than clarity, because people can't relate to the Supercouncils. The Supercouncils are so large that people were left wondering if the cases were near them or not.

Anyway, moving onto the language, and here is an interesting fact. When I was watching MotoGP back in the late 1990's / early 2000's, at the end of the race the podium finishers were interviewed by this guy who must have spoke about a dozen languages (I don't know his name). And for those riders who spoke English (which, back in those days, wasn't all of them), he would interview them in English, and then ask them to speak in their own language. As a result of listening to him say it so often, the first Spanish phrase I learnt that I knew the meaning of was "Castellano por favor". (Although, whatever way he said it, the final 2 words sounded like they had 2 syllables rather than 3).

Sometime in the mid-noughties, he was replaced by Matt Roberts (who now presents the superbike coverage on British Eurosport). And ever since, I have been wondering who this super-multi-linguial guy was; what nationality he was (and, by extention, which language was his first language); and just how many languages he did speak!

As for Catalunya, the first time I heard of the name was through watching motorbike races from the Circuit de Catalunya at Montmeló. That was the first spelling I saw, and that is the spelling I have always used ever since. It was actually only in the past few years that I found out that there were alternative spellings depending on which language was being used.

It was definitely not intended to be a political statement.

So, I hope this clears everything up.

CaroLiza_fan
 

Olibritt

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Oh boys, but I have inadvertantly opened up a can of worms. :drama:

CaroLiza_fan

:laugh: Oh no, don´t blame yourself, that can is being open for a long time and, by now, the worms look more like anacondas, there's no way to put them back in the can :confused2:

I'll try to be brief: I think the situation went so wrong for many reasons, one of them is because most of people (me included) let things slide, for many years, in order to avoid conflict. I don´t do that anymore, I don´t try to convince or discuss anything, I just try to remove wrong info around me.

Castile is historical but it doesn´t exist in the present. When literature mention "castellanos" (people from Castilla) they are described as proud, austere farmers of the plateau, always looking at the sky searching for rain… Madrid became the the big city in the Modern Age, the king's court grew there (central government now), it's in the center geographically, but never a part of Castile, that means, literally "land of castles". Once Castile Kingdom merged with the rest of Spain, "New" and "Old" Castile were spanish regions until 1978 constitution, that changed almost everything and I don´t think that anyone is missing anything from the past (I mean, from a real past).
Why then was "Castile" so used by pro-independent catalans? That would be entering in a discussion… I won´t go there.:noshake:)

How to call Catalonia? That's easy, no conflict here. If you are speaking in English "Catalonia", in Spanish "Cataluña" and in Catalan "Catalunya". I mean, I can talk about Londres or Nueva York but, if I'm speaking in English, I better say London or New York. But, of course, you can always have a courtesy with the locals and use their names.

There's a lot of debate Spanish/Castellano, talking about the language. You can find people who only recognize and use one of the terms... I like and use both, I would say Castellano as a way to diferenciate it from the other "spanish languages" (languages that are spoken in Spain, legally recognized as oficial languages), but in any other context, I mostly use Spanish to name the language.

And now, we'll better let resting the can of anacondas for a little more :bed:

You really have an interest in History! And you're a very good student! :bow:
 

CaroLiza_fan

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:laugh: Oh no, don´t blame yourself, that can is being open for a long time and, by now, the worms look more like anacondas, there's no way to put them back in the can :confused2:

I'll try to be brief: I think the situation went so wrong for many reasons, one of them is because most of people (me included) let things slide, for many years, in order to avoid conflict. I don´t do that anymore, I don´t try to convince or discuss anything, I just try to remove wrong info around me.

Thank you so much for your very interesting reply. It is good to hear about the situation from the viewpoint of somebody who is actually on the ground and experiencing it first hand.

Castile is historical but it doesn´t exist in the present. When literature mention "castellanos" (people from Castilla) they are described as proud, austere farmers of the plateau, always looking at the sky searching for rain… Madrid became the the big city in the Modern Age, the king's court grew there (central government now), it's in the center geographically, but never a part of Castile, that means, literally "land of castles". Once Castile Kingdom merged with the rest of Spain, "New" and "Old" Castile were spanish regions until 1978 constitution, that changed almost everything and I don´t think that anyone is missing anything from the past (I mean, from a real past).
Why then was "Castile" so used by pro-independent catalans? That would be entering in a discussion… I won´t go there.:noshake:)

I never knew that the term "Castilian" also had other meanings apart from simply being a person from Castile, and the language spoken there (and a whole pile of other places in the world!) So, it is also used to describe a specific stereotype. Very interesting. And I didn't know that Catalan separatists were using the term "Castilian" as a weapon. This seems very surreal to me, because it is a real proper adjective connected to a specific place. It is not one of these terms that is designed to be offensive. But, don't worry, I'm not going to ask for more info.

So, these are things I will have to bear in mind in future, in case I put my foot in it. :slink:

How to call Catalonia? That's easy, no conflict here. If you are speaking in English "Catalonia", in Spanish "Cataluña" and in Catalan "Catalunya". I mean, I can talk about Londres or Nueva York but, if I'm speaking in English, I better say London or New York. But, of course, you can always have a courtesy with the locals and use their names.

Very good point. I was just unwittingly thrown off course because the Catalan term was the one I came across first. And for the guts of 20 years it was the only term I knew. The problem now is that once you get into a habit, it is so hard to get out of it. But, I will try...

There's a lot of debate Spanish/Castellano, talking about the language. You can find people who only recognize and use one of the terms... I like and use both, I would say Castellano as a way to diferenciate it from the other "spanish languages" (languages that are spoken in Spain, legally recognized as oficial languages), but in any other context, I mostly use Spanish to name the language.

Personally, I do prefer to refer to the language by it's more specific name of "Castilian". But that is not a political thing; that is because I know that there are quite a few regional languages in Spain, and I don't want to cause confusion as to which one I am talking about. And so as not to offend somebody who has one of the other languages as their first language.

You know, I had to laugh when you brought languages into the conversation. Because, unbeknownst to you, over the past few weeks, I have been chatting to an Italian friend and a German friend about languages, and asking them if regional languages are still widely spoken and understood, like they are in Spain!!!

And now, we'll better let resting the can of anacondas for a little more

I have to say, I loved your anaconda analogy. So, thank you for using it, and bringing a smile to my face. :)

And you are right. We've gone far enough off topic as it is, without going any further.

You really have an interest in History! And you're a very good student! :bow:

Awww, thank you. :thank:

Needless to say, history was my favourite subject at school. And on top of that, I just love looking at maps, finding out about places and seeing how they change over time. I am one of those strange people who when they wake up, that is them awake for the day. So, when I was younger, it was not unusual for me to get out my historical atlas if I woke up early, and spend an hour or so just looking at old maps before having breakfast.

I'm odd! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

CaroLiza_fan
 

flanker

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Needless to say, history was my favourite subject at school. And on top of that, I just love looking at maps, finding out about places and seeing how they change over time. I am one of those strange people who when they wake up, that is them awake for the day. So, when I was younger, it was not unusual for me to get out my historical atlas if I woke up early, and spend an hour or so just looking at old maps before having breakfast.

I'm odd! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Then I am odd too, because this was my hobby as well :)
 

mom2cavs

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Is there a reason why no one is talking about Lorraine and her new partner Anton Spirindova. When I heard it I thought it was a joke but it's on her instagram.
 

Ic3Rabbit

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Is there a reason why no one is talking about Lorraine and her new partner Anton Spirindova. When I heard it I thought it was a joke but it's on her instagram.

Spirindov* Adding the "a" on the end makes it feminine. Their partnership is being discussed here.
 

eterislouisvuitton

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That doesn’t make much sense. If she has had joints problems, landing the throw jumps is definitely not going to help her!

Exactly. If she had joint problems she would've either gone to dance or retired. If she can't handle jumping triples, I don't think she can handle triple throws. I think there was just too much depth. Which is insane. In literally any other country if you got to JGPF it wouldn't matter if you were 16 or you repeated a million jumps in the freea nd finished dead 6th - there would be a tone of investment in you. But alas she is Russian.
 

Ic3Rabbit

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Exactly. If she had joint problems she would've either gone to dance or retired. If she can't handle jumping triples, I don't think she can handle triple throws. I think there was just too much depth. Which is insane. In literally any other country if you got to JGPF it wouldn't matter if you were 16 or you repeated a million jumps in the freea nd finished dead 6th - there would be a tone of investment in you. But alas she is Russian.

Dance isn't going to be any easier on her joints. And I'm speaking from experience.
 

ice coverage

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Is there a reason why no one is talking about Lorraine and her new partner Anton Spirindova. When I heard it I thought it was a joke but it's on her instagram.

The correct last name for Anton is Spiridonov. :)

Although I will miss Quinn, I wish the best to the new partners.

ETA:
mom2cavs, from your post in the other thread, I sense your familiarity with Anton.
As long as the spelling of his last name already was being discussed in this thread, I thought it was worth getting 100% right. I hope that you understand. :ghug:
 

hanca

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Dance isn't going to be any easier on her joints. And I'm speaking from experience.
I wouldn’t say that ice dance is easy on joints, definitely not, but after quite a bad hip injury which ended with a hip surgery, I had to move from singles, but I was able to do ice dance. I did not do it on elite level, but I would say it definitely was easier on joints than singles or pairs.
 

eterislouisvuitton

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Dance isn't going to be any easier on her joints. And I'm speaking from experience.

I should rephrase. Not easy, just relatively easier. That was another thing that made me suspicious with Kanysheva. She has a bad back that prevented her from jumping. I wonder if it was on the edge of collapsing, or if boys are afraid to work with her because of it.

Am I the only one that finds it strange that she just turned 15 and is teaming up with a 22 year old? I know he's a jr world silver medalist but look at her:
- pretty
- young
- jgpf medalist
- hooked up with a great coach (Samokhin)
- on good terms with Eteri Tutberidze

And they couldn't get a good teenage boy to work with her?
 

surimi

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So McNamara/Spiridonov should be added to OP as a new couple?
 

hanca

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I should rephrase. Not easy, just relatively easier. That was another thing that made me suspicious with Kanysheva. She has a bad back that prevented her from jumping. I wonder if it was on the edge of collapsing, or if boys are afraid to work with her because of it.

Am I the only one that finds it strange that she just turned 15 and is teaming up with a 22 year old? I know he's a jr world silver medalist but look at her:
- pretty
- young
- jgpf medalist
- hooked up with a great coach (Samokhin)
- on good terms with Eteri Tutberidze

And they couldn't get a good teenage boy to work with her?
Are you questioning why Volodin would want to skate with Vasilieva, or why she would want to skate with Volodin?

From Volodin’s point of view, a single skater can learn pair elements within a year. Volodin’s previous partner was not doing pairs until she started with him, and in their first season together they were pretty successful for a new pair - getting medals at the Russian cup events and scores around 180 and 190. Other examples are for example Yasmina Kadyrova, who also swapped to pairs and after a year they are now in senior reserve team. On the other hand, if he chose an experienced pair girl, it is likely that she would have jump problems. At least from those that have been available this off season - Efimova - very experienced but struggles with jumps. Kudriavtseva- has been struggling with throws for over a year. So while with Vasilieva Volodin knows that they will probably lose a year when they are working hard on all pair elements, after the year there is a chance that they will be pretty decent, whereas with with an experienced pair girl, they could start competing immediately, but the jumps problems may not be possible to ever resolve.

From Vasilieva’s perspective, why shouldn’t she want to skate with Volodin? It is quite hard for girls to find a partner, and suddenly here is one who is very experienced and was relatively successful on junior level. It is a bit inconvenient that they have to move to seniors because she won’t experience junior competitions even though she would be junior eligible for another three or four years, but she has this experience from singles. If everything goes right, she has a chance to get to senior B competitions and if they get decent scores, they will get GP events the following season. Besides, if she declined Volodin, would it be better to skate with a boy who is a pair beginner like she is? It is not as if there was a queue of blokes hoping to skate with a pair beginner girl, even if she has full set of jumps. There were roughly ten Russian pairs who broke up this off season and most of them just swapped partners between themselves; it is not as if Vasilieva had a catalogue of guys from whom she could chose. I think she was quite lucky with Volodin, and from his previous partners’ instagrams, he seems to be a pretty decent person even off ice.
 
Last edited:

Dreamer57

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Nikita Volodin is skating pairs with Viktoria Vasilieva, but some very good points have been made above.
Link
 

hanca

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Nikita Volodin is skating pairs with Viktoria Vasilieva, but some very good points have been made above.
Link

Ups, I was thinking about Vasilieva and wrote the name Kanysheva. They both switched from singles this off season, Kanysheva to ice dance and Vasilieva to pairs. I will correct it in my previous post.
 
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