2021-2022 Russian Men's Figure Skating

[CrazyKittenLady]

I've had this ridiculous thought a couple of times, and now I feel it's the time to spell it out. Russia has nine spots at international championships this season. Why not give Olys to the top three guys at Nats, Worlds to the next three guys, and Euros to places 7-9 (or whatever order)? This selection procedure would at least adequately reflect the arbitrariness of scoring at RusNats and the general inconsistency and similar overall level of the skaters.
Please don't take this post seriously , I am aware that my proposal goes against the sporting principle and also wouldn't help the skaters build their international reputation. But still, for this season at least, I feel that this approach would be as fair as any other, and as a bonus it would give selfish me the opportunity to see nine of the Russian guys compete for one or the other of the big international titles.

 

[lariko]

Japan sends two different teams to 4CC and Olympics and Worlds, and I mean… look at how their men are doing. I am still drinking bitter tears that Kagiyama also won bronze in Japanese nationals with very different results.

 

[YuBluByMe]

I am still drinking bitter tears that Kagiyama also won bronze in Japanese nationals with very different results.

Mozalev and Kagiyama are in different situations as the Japanese men’s field and the Russian men’s field are completely different. In Japan, the Nationals podium (the top 3) is solidified. Russian men, on the other hand, have been playing musical chairs with their podium for years. There is no top 3.

I like both Semenenko and Mozalev, but I like Mozalev a lot more and would definitely rather see him picked over Semenenko, but I understand the Fed’s reasoning. It’s not surprising at all. For over a year now, Mozalev consistently has to dig himself out of a hole after doing badly, very badly in the short. In this regard, Semenenko is the safest bet (especially at Worlds) when not making the free skate could cost a spot.

Mozalev has the potential to be the top Russian man in the next quad and I really hope he pulls it together. He’ll learn from this.

 

[vorravorra]

Japan sends two different teams to 4CC and Olympics and Worlds, and I mean… look at how their men are doing. I am still drinking bitter tears that Kagiyama also won bronze in Japanese nationals with very different results.

Euros are a selection stage for the Olympics/Worlds, so a different team is not sent there. And the only way a skater gets to sit it out is for health reasons. Plus Euros are historically a prestigious competition that nobody's going to turn down unless they already have a bunch of titles. As for who goes to Worlds, if the Olympians choose to go, nobody's going to replace them. If they don't, someone else may get the chance. I don't see which of the men would turn down what are traditionally easy Worlds, they are not exactly Medvedeva with two World titles. Plus the Fed needs three spots for next season and the best guys to bring them.

 

[lariko]

Mozalev and Kagiyama are in different situations as the Japanese men’s field and the Russian men’s field are completely different. In Japan, the Nationals podium (the top 3) is solidified. Russian men, on the other hand, have been playing musical chairs with their podium for years. There is no top 3.

I like both Semenenko and Mozalev, but I like Mozalev a lot more and would definitely rather see him picked over Semenenko, but I understand the Fed’s reasoning. For over a year now, Mozalev consistently has to dig himself out of a hole after doing badly, very badly in the short. In this regard, Semenenko is the safest bet (especially at Worlds) when not making the free skate could cost a spot.

Mozalev has the potential to be the top Russian man in the next quad and I really hope he pulls it together. He’ll learn from this.

I am not cheering for Russian men in European Championship as protest for this ‘understandable’ reasoning. My support goes to Aymoz, Litvintzev, Levandi, Grassl, Vasiljiev.

Yes, Japanese men are in a very different situation with 6 men getting to compete in the second half of the season. And, btw, the same goes for their women too. They just treat their skaters nicer. Even Sato got assigned to junior worlds from all things. Like, maybe show some faith in Mozalev for once. Next year they will bring Samsonov back and god helps Mozalev even if he trips only once.

He really burned his short only once, in France. In all other competitions he had problems with 4S. Which would have been terrible if the rest of them was a marvel of stability, but none of them is anything to write home about in terms of landing every jump. Zero of them skated clean. Why was it Mozalev who got singled out? France? Like, I know, he should have pulled on his amazing stamina reserves and plowed the CoR circuit, but he staked his hopes on the damn Nationals, and those Nationals failed him.

Like, no matter what he does, he just can’t win with the fed. He does every competition there is under the sun and that would have him? Tries senior quad? He gets 4th place finish and surgery. He saves himself and polishes junior quads, he gets one GP and gets passed over for European. Like, what’s the risk if he didn’t do well in Eu? Semenenko gets to be the hero and save Russia in Olympics. No, it’s if Mozalev did well there, now it would be a problem, because now he is solidifying his hold on nothing he has in their opinion.

 

[YuBluByMe]

Like, maybe show some faith in Mozalev for once.

He really burned his short only once, in France. In all other competitions he had problems with 4S.

Like, no matter what he does, he just can’t win with the fed. He does every competition there is under the sun and that would have him? He saves himself and polishes junior quads, he gets one GP

I don’t know what your definition of burn is, but Mozalev burned his SP every single time with an 100% fall rate. His highest score in the short barely broke 80, which is what he would have gotten internationally for his Nationals SP. That’s not good. Also, that one GP was not the time to score less than 70 in the SP! Is Semenenko doing significantly better than Mozalev? Not really. They are almost interchangeable, but Mozalev isn’t doing himself any favors as he’s giving them reasons to pass him over.

 

[lariko]

I don’t know what your definition of burn is, but Mozalev burned his SP every single time with an 100% fall rate. His highest score in the short barely broke 80, which is what he would have gotten internationally for his Nationals SP. That’s not good. Also, that one GP was not the time to score less than 70 in the SP! Is Semenenko doing significantly better than Mozalev? Not really. They are almost interchangeable, but Mozalev isn’t doing himself any favors as he’s giving them reasons to pass him over.

Yes, I am sure he just loves the thrill of uncertainty, so that fall in the short is always carefully planned. He doesn’t have quad selection, so he can’t remove the second quad from the short and stay in contention. Gumennik did, and it didn’t go too hot for him. I mean, I hope the plan is not going to be to bring the flip back next season. At any rate, I am so upset, I can’t even watch beloved Uno who qualified for everything.

 

[lariko]

Maybe, Mozalev should think about one tiny adjustment for next season. That one line on the protocols where it says ‘coach’ needs to get revised to a name starting with T. Then he’d skate to monotone music, do even more transitions, and get more 10s in PCSs. That should be enough for two GPs, Euros and Worlds.

 

[Flying Feijoa]

Maybe, Mozalev should think about one tiny adjustment for next season. That one line on the protocols where it says ‘coach’ needs to get revised to a name starting with T. Then he’d skate to monotone music, do even more transitions, and get more 10s in PCSs. That should be enough for two GPs, Euros and Worlds.

No, Rukhin tried that and it didn't help him much here (no disrespect to him). Also I wouldn't be sure Samsonov's return would necessarily hurt Mozalev; over in Canada Gogolev is finally back to competition, but it's a real upward climb for him as his SS, spins and jumps have all regressed somewhat.
This is men, no amount of coach politicking can make up for a BV deficit if it's big enough. Mozalev has the skills, it's just a matter of time before he can rebuild that (reputation of) consistency that he had in juniors.

 

[lariko]

No, Rukhin tried that and it didn't help him much here (no disrespect to him). Also I wouldn't be sure Samsonov's return would necessarily hurt Mozalev; over in Canada Gogolev is finally back to competition, but it's a real upward climb for him as his SS, spins and jumps have all regressed somewhat.
This is men, no amount of coach politicking can make up for a BV deficit if it's big enough. Mozalev has the skills, it's just a matter of time before he can rebuild that (reputation of) consistency that he had in juniors.

Eh, he had enough BV to contest silver here. With all the love to Rukhin, his short was nightmarish & he didn’t precisely had a redemption free skate. there was no saving that. In Mozalev’s case q instead of < on that 4S, just slightly higher GoEs and his PE, TR, IN and CO getting proportionally higher scores than Kondratyuk’s, with Semenenko getting dinged on GoEs and PCSs (which he could very ‘understandably’ be)… and we’d have a very different podium. Not to mention, sport principle would have iron-clad applied and there would have been less concerns, more faith in his improvement. Not to mention, he’d have received Rostelecom probably and the same cool judging MK received that propelled him from mid-pack to first substitute in GP.

 

[Flying Feijoa]

Eh, he had enough BV to contest silver here.

Oh, I meant more a future scenario with Mozalev versus Samsonov (Davydenko vs Tutberidze).
Politicking may make up the difference in Samsonov's favour if he has comparable jump content. However it may be a hard ask for a guy who's struggled with growth injuries for 3 years to match Mozalev's 5 quads and 3 3A across 2 programmes.
That is to say, Mozalev is fine where he is with Davydenko. In fact the coach with most political weight in men's discipline at the moment is Mishin rather than Tutberidze (to be fair, his guys usually do well enough not to need inflation).

 

[lariko]

Oh, I meant more a future scenario with Mozalev versus Samsonov (Davydenko vs Tutberidze).
Politicking may make up the difference in Samsonov's favour if he has comparable jump content. However it may be a hard ask for a guy who's struggled with growth injuries for 3 years to match Mozalev's 5 quads and 3 3A across 2 programmes.
That is to say, Mozalev is fine where he is with Davydenko. In fact the coach with most political weight in men's discipline at the moment is Mishin rather than Tutberidze (to be fair, his guys usually do well enough not to need inflation).

I know that he is fine with Davydenko from the objective point of view, but with a famous coach, the trip would have been his. After all, Samsonov received 2GP stages sight unseen, without competing, Kolyada won free skate and silver, Kondratyuk got 10s in components and gold medal with sloppy skating, and Semenenko is the one packing skates for Euros, while Mozalev won the consolation medal (which nobody thankfully take away yet in the new Russian tradition) and training with the same intensity for another month and motherhood and apple pie speech from his coach about working harder to get results that can’t be contested. I love Davydenko’s stoic attitude, I really do, but when stuff if unfair you gotta call it unfair, and it was unfair and “insert curse word” unfair.

 

[lariko]

And, Mozalev is not even the first alt, he is the second alt here, unless it’s just alphabetical

https://results.isu.org/events/ec2022_Men.htm

 

[Jeanie19]

And, Mozalev is not even the first alt, he is the second alt here, unless it’s just alphabetical

https://results.isu.org/events/ec2022_Men.htm

It's alphabetical.

 

[lariko]

It's alphabetical.

Okay, thanks goodness.

 

[Mauvedreamer]

I am heartbroken, but I felt Semeneko would be preferred because of his strong GP finish and short. I hope there will be other GPs, other Euros and other WCs for Mozalev.

I feel your pain , .. very disheartening. We must not lose hope. .. hugs .

 

[lariko]

I feel your pain , .. very disheartening. We must not lose hope. .. hugs .

Hugs! I know it’s bad to be negative, so I am trying to get over it, but I am finding it hard, and absolutely nothing in my life depends on this. Can’t imagine how that feels for Mozalev, given he missed his shot last year and came so close this year. Save for, indeed, moving to Tutberidze, I dunno what the heck he could do at this point to break out. He needs a powerful coach behind him, because there is no achieving anything without it in Russia. They tried it their idealistic way, and it didn’t work on senior level.

 

[RoundedBackCamel]

I based a lot of stuff on age, being far along in years myself (59), so last chances are on my mind a lot. I wish they would have just let Kolyada sit out Europeans and make it a given he’s in for Olys. Then let three others fight it out at Euros. Men have much longer skating careers than women. It’s totally foreseeable that the 18-year-old men could be around for next quad. I understand that a lot has to do with the team event and Kolyada doesn’t have the greatest record in that. But it’s so comparatively new. I wish it wasn’t such a big factor. Honestly, who cares which country’s teams get gold, silver, and bronze? The countries themselves put way more weight on it than figure skating fans. I also think these medal counts are becoming quickly irrelevant when we are open to global coverage these days and not the myopic, nation-centric view forced on us in previous decades.

National pride is pretty lame to those of us who love skaters because they move us, completely subjectively, not because they are from our countries. I feel like casual skating fans are more likely to root for a skater because he or she represents their county. (Btw, “casual fan” describes every person I know in real life, not online. I have tried for decades to get family members interested in figure skating, and it mystifies me why they don’t see how incredible it is, lol. Most people outside my family—that is my parents and sisters—don’t even pay attention to Olys at all. My teenage kids don’t.)

I love the messiness of Russian men’s skating. Women’s totally bores me. It’s unlikely any Russian man will get on the podium without a total meltdown from one of the top five or so with overwhelming technical content (although I personally would love it, for one guy in particular) and the top three or so with artistry and technical content. So I can just accept that it will be another four years and maybe Russian men will get it together. Hopefully the playing field will be more level and their will be more of a balance in interpretation, skating skills, musicality, and tech content.

 

[lariko]

Then let three others fight it out at Euros. Men have much longer skating careers than women. It’s totally foreseeable that the 18-year-old men could be around for next quad.

Just like every Russian field, men are overflowing, so chances are they will be swapping fast and furiously, just like we saw in the past couple of years. Aliev and Danielian, then Kolyada and Semeneko, now it’s Kondratyuk… there is always too much competition, never enough spots in Russia.

Like, I am already preemptively worried-paranoid about Popov at junior nationals this year, if he can get a JGP assignment for next year. Sigh.

 

[rollerblade]

I've had this ridiculous thought a couple of times, and now I feel it's the time to spell it out. Russia has nine spots at international championships this season. Why not give Olys to the top three guys at Nats, Worlds to the next three guys, and Euros to places 7-9 (or whatever order)?

That looks like a direct flight to losing the 3rd spot.