2021-22 Russian Women's Figure Skating

[beachmouse]

Skaters with no grand prix events is like 80% of the world class skaters.

How can the isu prevent skaters from skating in another Figure skating league or association? That would be quite dictatorial of them.

In more normal times, the ISU actually cannot sanction an athlete simply for competing in an unsanctioned competition.A EU labor court ruled against them when they threatened to ban speed skaters from ISU events if they competed in an unsauctioned event in South Korea. This precedent carried over in a dispute between FINA (global aquatics) and the International Swimming League and eventually FINA and ISL came to agreement over an.athlete’s right to compete in both FINA and ISL events.

Of course things are more complicated now but for the curious-

Skating body ISU loses appeal against landmark EU penalty ruling

The International Skating Union (ISU) on Wednesday lost its bid to overturn an EU antitrust order that it stop penalising speed skaters for taking part in new money-spinning events, as Europe's second-highest court backed the earlier order.

www.reuters.com

Should we create "Russian Women's Pole Dancing" thread now or what?

Tangent-a few years back, I was watching, IIRC, it was CCTV’s English language news series and they did indeed have a little feature on the ‘World Sport Pole Championships’ (or something like that- I’m not going to do a Google search for the exact name and have that go on my internet permanent record) which is indeed a real and serious athletic competition and which is dominated by Russian athletes who typically had a strong background in gymnastics or dance who had discovered that pole sport was a fun and, in that context, non-prurient activity and not nearly as hyper competitive as Russian dance and gymnastics can be.

The clips they showed of the event were actually pretty neat.

 

[Scott512]

In more normal times, the ISU actually cannot sanction an athlete simply for competing in an unsanctioned competition.A EU labor court ruled against them when they threatened to ban speed skaters from ISU events if they competed in an unsauctioned event in South Korea. This precedent carried over in a dispute between FINA (global aquatics) and the International Swimming League and eventually FINA and ISL came to agreement over an.athlete’s right to compete in both FINA and ISL events.

Of course things are more complicated now but for the curious-

Skating body ISU loses appeal against landmark EU penalty ruling

The International Skating Union (ISU) on Wednesday lost its bid to overturn an EU antitrust order that it stop penalising speed skaters for taking part in new money-spinning events, as Europe's second-highest court backed the earlier order.

www.reuters.com

Tangent-a few years back, I was watching, IIRC, it was CCTV’s English language news series and they did indeed have a little feature on the ‘World Sport Pole Championships’ (or something like that- I’m not going to do a Google search for the exact name and have that go on my internet permanent record) which is indeed a real and serious athletic competition and which is dominated by Russian athletes who typically had a strong background in gymnastics or dance who had discovered that pole sport was a fun and, in that context, non-prurient activity and not nearly as hyper competitive as Russian dance and gymnastics can be.

The clips they showed of the event were actually pretty neat.

Anytime the isu loses I am happy.

That was some precedent against isu with the speed skaters wanting to skate in South Korea.

With the swimmers being able to swim in the events from both organizations is a good thing. This could happen in figure skating too. We should have that in figure skating but there's no second organization. Let's see there's like 20 baseball leagues in the world there's like 20 hockey leagues in the world there's like 20 soccer leagues in the world but only one figure skating organization in the world. That needs to change. If Russia gets banned from the isu for the upcoming season as most people expect they should start their own League or Organization for figure skating with completely unsanctioned events or competitive exhibitions and invite skaters from all over the world and go to other countries to like Georgia or Belarus or Armenia or South Korea. The ISU does not have any events in those countries. Plushenko even suggested something like this.

Such an organization would take time to grow. They could offer skaters an appearance fee plus prize money for making the podium.
The isu needs a competitor to make them better because they are terrible.

Thanks again for the information I enjoyed reading it. I was also happy to read that the European Union labor court ruled against the ISU. I hope we see more of this in the future.

 

[Jumping_Bean]

In more normal times, the ISU actually cannot sanction an athlete simply for competing in an unsanctioned competition.A EU labor court ruled against them when they threatened to ban speed skaters from ISU events if they competed in an unsauctioned event in South Korea.

Here's the link to the actual ruling: https://curia.europa.eu/juris/docum...en&mode=lst&dir=&occ=first&part=1&cid=3810042

The commission specifies that "According to settled case-law, the compatibility of a rule with the rules of EU competition law cannot be assessed in the abstract. Not every agreement between undertakings or every decision of an association of undertakings which restricts the freedom of action of the parties or of one of them is necessarily caught by the prohibition laid down in Article 101(1) TFEU."(77), which means that this decision does not rule out the legality of the existence of eligibility rules that restrict the events athletes can compete in as a whole.

The ISU lost the case due to the fact that "the eligibility rules do not explicitly state the legitimate objectives that they pursue" (85) and do not offer "authorisation criteria that are clearly defined, transparent, non-discriminatory, reviewable and capable of ensuring the organisers of events effective access to the relevant market" (88), as well as the extreme severity of the punishment as "the penalties set out in the 2016 eligibility rules, even those with a fixed time limit of 5 to 10 years continue to be disproportionate in so far as they apply, inter alia, to participation in unauthorised third-party events" (93) and once again lack clarification as "the 2016 eligibility rules do not precisely set out the conditions that allow the dividing line between different categories of infringements to be determined" (94).

The ISU was required to pay a penalty for the infringement of their rules with Article 101(1) TFEU and Article 53 of the EEA Agreement and compensation to the affected athlete. It was also required that the arbitration rules were to be "amended in the event that the pre-authorisation system is maintained".
As the current set of eligibility rules is from June 2021 (so after the ruling in this case!), we can say that they indeed kept the pre-authorisation system. Comparing these rules to the previous ones, they have been amended to be a lot more precise and exhaustive, with the punishments being much less severe. I'd argue that the ISU wouldn't have lost this case if the rules had already looked like this at the time of the eligibility violation.

Additionally, the ISU launched a still ongoing appeal in February of 2021 against the decision, so we'll have to wait and see what happens with that before we draw any conclusions from this.

This precedent carried over in a dispute between FINA (global aquatics) and the International Swimming League and eventually FINA and ISL came to agreement over an.athlete’s right to compete in both FINA and ISL events.

As far as I know, the court case involving the eligibility of ISL athletes for FINA events is still ongoing (Shields et al v. Federation Internationale De Natation) and the jury trial is set for the 5th to 16th of December 2022. Is there another case, that already has a ruling, or has there been a settlement outside of court concerning this case?

 

[Isabel_O'Reilly]

Actually you're wrong on the triple axel, at the Olympics she got 2.2 points for the triple axel and at Worlds 2021 4.3 for a clean double axel. Plus hypothetically speaking her PCS might have been higher.

I apologize again, I should have clarified that I was not counting the -1.00 fall deduction:

Russian Nationals December 2020
2A: 3.30(BV) + 0.99(GOE) = 4.29 points
PCS: 35.45

Russian Nationals December 2021
3Aq: 8.00(BV) + -4.00(GOE) = 4.00 points
PCS: 35.60

The same score for the element to within a few tenths of a point. I used this example because every single element was the same in BV and technical calls except the 2A vs. 3A.

Checkout this link (shows December 2021, simply click on her score to get the protocol and then go back and hit prior season to see score and protocol for December 2020):

Skating Scores: Latest Figure Skating Results, Scores, Rankings & Statistics

The best resource for Figure Skating scores and stats on the web.

skatingscores.com

I do realize the final score does differ by approximately 1.5 points because of the -1 fall deduction and small differences in GOE on other elements but that just is not very much in the grand scheme of things. If both Kamila and Anna were only doing 2A and their scores were only 1-2 points ahead of her in the SP then I would agree that going for the 3A cost her, but in reality a 3A attempt is her only way to be leading after the SP because once she lands it her score will be around 80 points if the landing is passable, and 81-82 points for a perfectly landed one.

 

[flanker]

Full show Champions on Ice in Minsk (compilation from the streams):

 

[katymay]

Full show Champions on Ice in Minsk (compilation from the streams):

Maybe they should have done more than one performance here, looks like there is an extreme demand for Eteri's show. Seems like a very enthusiastic audience. Sasha seems to be having problems with the right foot again.

 

[Skatelife]

Maybe they should have done more than one performance here, looks like there is an extreme demand for Eteri's show. Seems like a very enthusiastic audience. Sasha seems to be having problems with the right foot again.

Or an international tour

 

[dorispulaski]

So sad Sasha's foot is still giving her trouble. May she heal soon

 

[flanker]

Rehearsal of the intro of the show in Megasport:

 

[flanker]

Good we can see Anya and Sasha next to each other and talking:

 

[Azikin]

Good we can see Anya and Sasha next to each other and talking:

Zhenya and Adelia LOL.

 

[Skatelife]

Any link for today's show?

 

[Mariiiiskate]

So Sofia Samodelkina has moved to Sokolovskayas group

Shocking move considering while Davydov has yet to have success in transitioning skaters from juniors to seniors, Sokolovskaya doesn't have any success with girls on any level.
It looks like the power ranking at CSKA is sifting again with Sokolovskayas group becoming the 2nd ranked group at cska ahead of Davydov.

 

[flanker]

So Sofia Samodelkina has moved to Sokolovskayas group

Shocking move considering while Davydov has yet to have success in transitioning skaters from juniors to seniors, Sokolovskaya doesn't have any success with girls on any level.
It looks like the power ranking at CSKA is sifting again with Sokolovskayas group becoming the 2nd ranked group at cska ahead of Davydov.

I'm afraid no available emoticon shows the amount of surprise I feel just now...

 

[flanker]

Any link for today's show?

Little late, sorry. First half (second one did not start yet):

VK.com | VK

vk.com

 

[flanker]

Second half is starting:

VK.com | VK

vk.com

Edit: The stream has freezed after about 20 minutes, this is a hew one:

VK.com | VK

vk.com

 

[Azikin]

So Sofia Samodelkina has moved to Sokolovskayas group

Shocking move considering while Davydov has yet to have success in transitioning skaters from juniors to seniors, Sokolovskaya doesn't have any success with girls on any level.
It looks like the power ranking at CSKA is sifting again with Sokolovskayas group becoming the 2nd ranked group at cska ahead of Davydov.

What? Seriously? Even Kulikova's move was surprising for me but this... didn't Davydov move, too?

 

[Azikin]

Here's yesterday's show on Youtube:
But I didn't check it, hopefully it's OK.

 

[LiamForeman]

So Sofia Samodelkina has moved to Sokolovskayas group

Shocking move considering while Davydov has yet to have success in transitioning skaters from juniors to seniors, Sokolovskaya doesn't have any success with girls on any level.
It looks like the power ranking at CSKA is sifting again with Sokolovskayas group becoming the 2nd ranked group at cska ahead of Davydov.

This really surprises me because I thought Sofia was his prized muse. Maybe she just needs a break from him, but she's landed every quad in practice, and she has really nice basics/skills, so he has done amazing work with her. I hope the new coach works out for her and she can improve her performances/placements. I wasn't quite sure what Davydov was thinking with changing up Sofia's jump layouts this whole season, and her resulting lackluster performances. Maybe she wants a more stable plan of action.

 

[Trusova4Ever]

Quad battle at the Moscow show: