2021-22 Russian Women's Figure Skating

[lurkerghost1]

If we think of Yuna Kim at 78.5, there's the extra sequence but her PCS was 33.8 so we could move the 4 points to that. Everything else balances out. With better GOE spins she would have been 80+. There's a pathway to 80+ without a 3A IMO but you need 42+ TES. I'm assuming 38 is the max PCS we'll likely ever see.

What was the TES you gave when you scored Alina's Olympics SP? And were you giving 1.1x for all the jumps or just the last one?

I have her at 80.67 but only because of backloading all 3. If we only gave the 3Lz-3Lo 1.1x she'd be below. But I guess I forgot about the power of backloading everything...



Then at the GPF I gave her huge PCS but I don't think her 3Lz/3Lo is big enough to get +4/+5 outside of a few specific occasions (for example Japan Open 2019) so she's still on 79. I also gave her benefit of the doubt and didn't mark (!) but it could go that way

 

[Imagine]

Well I watched Game of Thrones after 2019 so going back and rewatching those programs now makes them more disappointing because it turns out Daenerys is a very sly and complex character, perhaps something Aliona could pull off…

Hi.

 

[silveruskate]

I have her at 80.67 but only because of backloading all 3. If we only gave the 3Lz-3Lo 1.1x she'd be below. But I guess I forgot about the power of backloading everything...



Then at the GPF I gave her huge PCS but I don't think her 3Lz/3Lo is big enough to get +4/+5 outside of a few specific occasions (for example Japan Open 2019) so she's still on 79. I also gave her benefit of the doubt and didn't mark (!) but it could go that way

Thanks that was really cool to see. So removing 1.4 of jump bonuses (not 1.6 because I think she would do 3F last at least if only 1 jump had the bonus), it's 79.27.

Your scoring is great and fair. The main change I would make is giving +3 on the 3Lz-3Lo, especially the Olympics SP one. Looking at Anna, Sasha, Yuma and some others, it's so hard to do a great 3Lz-3Lo. There's lots of distance between Alina's 2 jumps in comparison and nice height for both jumps - so 0.6 more there. (I would even give Alina +3/+4 on the +5 scale for her not as good 3Lz-3Los because she's that much better than all the rest imo). Aside from that the 2A I would only give +1 but first spin +3 so they cancel out. Then 36+ PCS instead of 35.8 and I have my 80+, but that's me.

Aliona didn't even score it, but her Jr. GPF was an 80+ program!

 

[starlight97]

Well I watched Game of Thrones after 2019 so going back and rewatching those programs now makes them more disappointing because it turns out Daenerys is a very sly and complex character, perhaps something Aliona could pull off

I would have actually loved to see Alena skate to "Light of the 7".
The gloomy yet graceful music which builds up to almost threatening towards the end would truly suit her. She would have been amazing at really hitting the notes and little moments that are in there, while at the same time showcasing her flow.

However, Polina Tsurskaya's SP to that music was imo one of the best programs Team Tudberitze has ever produced.
Perfect costume, right music cut, great choreo (did Daniil even do that program?) and Polina delivered it stunningly when she was on.

 

[Jontor]

I would have actually loved to see Alena skate to "Light of the 7".
The gloomy yet graceful music which builds up to almost threatening towards the end would truly suit her. She would have been amazing at really hitting the notes and little moments that are in there, while at the same time showcasing her flow.

However, Polina Tsurskaya's SP to that music was imo one of the best programs Team Tudberitze has ever produced.
Perfect costume, right music cut, great choreo (did Daniil even do that program?) and Polina delivered it stunningly when she was on.

When it comes to Alena I find her to be a typical Kwan skater. She has fantastic posture and grace out there on the ice, and some people mistake that for artistic talent. Some even say she has great skating skills.

That said, I also find Alena to be a fantastic skater. Just because she is so fantastic to look at. But let's be real, that's what it is. That gift is rare and that's her strength.

 

[Jontor]

A lot of withdrawals from Golden Spin today...among them Sinitsyna unfortunately (and You).

Looks like Gubanova and Glenn will be favourites for this event now.

 

[rollerblade]

When it comes to Alena I find her to be a typical Kwan skater. She has fantastic posture and grace out there on the ice, and some people mistake that for artistic talent. Some even say she has great skating skills.

I don't understand what you're trying to say here. It is simultaneously a compliment and an insult, to more than one skater.

Is this like the artiste vs the performer? Alas, only one counts for scoring.

 

[Dawn825]

I know this isnt specifically a Russian women's topic but I'm curious to get your take on this. I saw on Twitter that Alla proposed streamlining PCS categories into just SS, CO, and PE.
Am I the only one who has been thinking this for ages? Transitions are just a huge component of choreography. If there aren't many complex, creative and musical transitions, how can the choreography be good? If there are, how can the choreography be bad? And what is interpretation, if not a combination of how the choreography and the skater's emotional performance match the music, style, or story.

 

[Lzbee]

I know this isnt specifically a Russian women's topic but I'm curious to get your take on this. I saw on Twitter that Alla proposed streamlining PCS categories into just SS, CO, and PE.
Am I the only one who has been thinking this for ages? Transitions are just a huge component of choreography. If there aren't many complex, creative and musical transitions, how can the choreography be good? If there are, how can the choreography be bad? And what is interpretation, if not a combination of how the choreography and the skater's emotional performance match the music, style, or story.

Hmmm I'm not sure. I don't really like the composition category name, it doesn't really mean anything without the rule details to define it.

Choreography can be good without transitions if it fits the music. It can be bad with lots of transitions if there random and don't hit any musical accents. That's just in general though, I think more transitions is better in the context of a sport.

I'd rather see PCS be separated into more categories tbh and be judged by a different panel. It kind of infuriates me that one of the reasons they rejected that proposal was that judges felt like they didn't have enough to do. (If they'd been doing their job properly they'd have had too much to do!).

In particular, I'd really like to see skating skills be separated out to speed, edge control, body control, flow etc. These are things that are not completely subjective and I don't think are evaluated with enough detail.

 

[readernick]

I'd rather see PCS be separated into more categories tbh and be judged by a different panel. It kind of infuriates me that one of the reasons they rejected that proposal was that judges felt like they didn't have enough to do. (If they'd been doing their job properly they'd have had too much to do!).

In particular, I'd really like to see skating skills be separated out to speed, edge control, body control, flow etc. These are things that are not completely subjective and I don't think are evaluated with enough detail.

Agree with this Percent! I also think that judges should check boxes to award bullet points rather than just inputting a positive or negative number for GOE.

 

[sclloyd]

Hmmm I'm not sure. I don't really like the composition category name, it doesn't really mean anything without the rule details to define it.

Choreography can be good without transitions if it fits the music. It can be bad with lots of transitions if there random and don't hit any musical accents. That's just in general though, I think more transitions is better in the context of a sport.

I'd rather see PCS be separated into more categories tbh and be judged by a different panel. It kind of infuriates me that one of the reasons they rejected that proposal was that judges felt like they didn't have enough to do. (If they'd been doing their job properly they'd have had too much to do!).

In particular, I'd really like to see skating skills be separated out to speed, edge control, body control, flow etc. These are things that are not completely subjective and I don't think are evaluated with enough detail.

I would normally agree with this, except that the judges already don’t judge by category anyways. They just give a general score that’s often related to their thoughts on the skater, not on the actual bullet points defined for each category.

Reducing the number of categories might assist judges who are scoring live because there are fewer categories for them to focus on. In that way it might be easier for them to actually judge category each by their criteria and not just by their overall impression of the skate/skater.

 

[sclloyd]

Agree with this Percent! I also think that judges should check boxes to award bullet points rather than just inputting a positive or negative number for GOE.

THIS. Would be brilliant to see judging based on the judging parameters. Many components of GOE get overlooked because they aren’t the main one or two things typically associated with GOE.

 

[nussnacker]

I know this isnt specifically a Russian women's topic but I'm curious to get your take on this. I saw on Twitter that Alla proposed streamlining PCS categories into just SS, CO, and PE.
Am I the only one who has been thinking this for ages? Transitions are just a huge component of choreography. If there aren't many complex, creative and musical transitions, how can the choreography be good? If there are, how can the choreography be bad? And what is interpretation, if not a combination of how the choreography and the skater's emotional performance match the music, style, or story.

I’ve also been saying we only need to leave 3 PCS categories: 1 for PE, IN, 1 for TR and CO, 1 for SS. I hope they’re not getting rid of TR score and will just include it into CO score.
I read another offer is to separate PCS and TES panels, also would be good to do that.

Overall, supportive of the suggestion to reduce it to 3, since 5 were unnecessary imo. Hope it will help to reduce subjectiveness
to just 1 component in PCS.

I would also personally be happy if the weight of the PCS score was reduced in general, maybe to 0.6 instead of 0.8 or 1.0 (for both men and women).

 

[lurkerghost1]

On the one hand, I like that this might help the judges separate the components of PCS and decrease the “PCS corridor.” On the other hand, who are we kidding, the PCS will continue to be abused. Also the fact that Alla proposed it makes me against it.

I also agree that speed should be its own PCS category - I would split up skating skills into speed and control. The chief example of this being Davis/White vs. virtue/moir - Davis and white had insane speed but didn’t hold their edges nearly as deeply or as longly as Tessa and Scott

 

[Hyena]

If any change results in judges scoring TR as quality of transitions and not quantity, I'd be happy with it!

 

[prorussian fan]

Now that GPF has been canceled, everything seems so uncertain from here to the Nationals! I can't imagine the tension that would be experienced at that event ...

 

[Arbitrary]

Now that GPF has been canceled, everything seems so uncertain from here to the Nationals! I can't imagine the tension that would be experienced at that event ...

No GPF = no Trusova on Olympics for sure. A pity.

 

[prorussian fan]

No GPF = no Trusova on Olympics for sure. A pity.

I'm still confident that she can pull off two quads and beat Liza for that third place! Trusova honestly deserves so much to go to the Olympics, it would be heartbreaking if Liza to take her place

 

[Arbitrary]

I'm still confident that she can pull off two quads and beat Liza for that third place! Trusova honestly deserves so much to go to the Olympics, it would be heartbreaking if Liza to take her place

There was a chance one of three preferenzi having a trauma of some sort during the GPF.
As soon as GPF cancelled there is little chance one of those three will be out...

Only cancelling the Olympics and moving it to the next year may help Sasha to survive.

 

[fabienne1996]

Now that GPF has been canceled, everything seems so uncertain from here to the Nationals! I can't imagine the tension that would be experienced at that event ...

Cant the gpf be done in another country? For example russia, i mean 5 out of six are from russia and only kaori would need to travel to russia for that?