2022-23 Russian Local Events – Discussion | Golden Skate

2022-23 Russian Local Events – Discussion

CrazyKittenLady

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2022/23 Russian Local Events – Discussion

This thread is intended for the discussion of local Russian competitions.

For a collection of useful and current local competition links (entry lists, schedules, streaming information) please see the 2022/23 Russian Local Events – Link Collection thread.


What we know so far about the plans for the 2022/23 season from the general meeting of the Russian Figure Skating Federation on 25th May:

- Senior test skates will take place in Moscow in September.
- There will be no Russian Cup series this season.
- Instead a Russian Grand Prix series is planned consisting of six stages. I guess there should be separate threads for these.
- The National Senior Championships are scheduled for December 20-25, 2022 in Krasnoyarsk.
- The National Junior Championships are scheduled for February 14-18, 2023 in Perm.
 
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hanca

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What is the difference between the new Russian grand prix events and the old Russian cups? There was five Russian cups to qualify for the nationals (and then one Russian cup final later, I think in late February or early March). Now there will be six of those grand prix and they will use it to qualify for the nationals plus one grand prix final at the beginning of March. Is there actually some other difference than renaming them and having one extra event?

As Russians won’t be able to qualify to senior nationals through competing at the (normal) GP events or for qualifying to JGPF, it means that everyone competing in senior nationals will earn their place through the same events. I quite like that! I hated that in pairs everyone who got GP event or got to JGPF had a spot and the skaters in Russian cups pairs were then fighting for one last available spot. At least now everyone is on the same footing.
 

AlexBreeze

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What is the difference between the new Russian grand prix events and the old Russian cups?
It's a good question. At the moment there aren't even regulations, I hope for significant changes.
 
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CrazyKittenLady

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My thoughts on the new Russian Grand Prix series and the calendar:

With regards to the timing I preferred the old Cup of Russia setup with a start in September and competitions roughly every two weeks. Now we'll have to wait one month longer for the season to begin and then it will be basically two months of non-stop competitions with only Monday and Tuesday as free days if you want to follow Juniors as well. Even the most hardcore figure skating fans won't manage to watch all of that and for me it means I'll probably only follow men and the occasional pairs event. And that's not even considering the international GPs, Challengers and Senior-B events as well as smaller local Russian competitions going on at the same time. 😵

The fields at every stage have to be rather small, since they have to fit all the disciplines into two and a half days. Assuming a more or less exact copy of the international GP setup with everybody earning points at two events towards qualifying for Nationals/the Final, for singles skating that would probably mean around 10-12 skaters tops per event, resulting in 30-36 skaters fighting for a spot at Nats. For pairs and dance it can be less.
I also agree with @hanca that it will be intriguing to watch everyone trying to qualify for Nats through the same events. We almost had that in the first Covid season, though so many national team skaters failed to show up at two Russian Cup events due to illness, they all got wild cards in the end. I hope they'll enforce the attendance rule this season, I don't want to see any skaters biding their time on national team funding and only showing up to Nationals.

Not thrilled about the Jumping Competition three weeks before Nationals! It's awkward in terms of pacing and honestly it's an injury waiting to happen.

And what exactly is the point of the Russian Grand Prix Final? Will it just be Nationals Round Two, only less prestigious? Don't get me wrong, the more events the better, but it would be nice if they found a way for some "lower level" skaters who didn't make Nats to skate at the RGP Final. Just look at the delightful performances Matvei Vetlugin delivered at last season's RCF.

In terms of new "domestic" rules, I don't think there will be any significant changes to existing ISU regulations. Firstly, many skaters already have their new programs choreographed, so it would be problematic for Rusfed to suddenly announce that the FS is 30 seconds longer now and must include a mandatory cartwheel 😜. Secondly, though I personally doubt it, there is still the chance that the Russians will be allowed back into international competition under whatever conditions for the second part of the season, so they should practise standard ISU programs just in case.
What I could see happening is that women are allowed to do quads in the SP.
 

Azikin

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Not thrilled about the Jumping Competition three weeks before Nationals! It's awkward in terms of pacing and honestly it's an injury waiting to happen.
Agreed. I never watch elements, for me it's useless, I take figure skating as a complex discipline, when you take something out, it's just not whole. So I doubt I will want to watch something called "Jumping Competition".
 

hanca

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My thoughts on the new Russian Grand Prix series and the calendar:

With regards to the timing I preferred the old Cup of Russia setup with a start in September and competitions roughly every two weeks. Now we'll have to wait one month longer for the season to begin and then it will be basically two months of non-stop competitions with only Monday and Tuesday as free days if you want to follow Juniors as well. Even the most hardcore figure skating fans won't manage to watch all of that and for me it means I'll probably only follow men and the occasional pairs event. And that's not even considering the international GPs, Challengers and Senior-B events as well as smaller local Russian competitions going on at the same time. 😵
Yes, I agree it may not be convenient for fans who will have so many events squeezed into just a few months (October-December), but I guess it makes sense to keep the same schedule as in the international competitions, because that’s what the skaters are used to from previous years (at least those who competed at GP events) and that’s also what they will have in the future, when they are again allowed to participate.
The fields at every stage have to be rather small, since they have to fit all the disciplines into two and a half days. Assuming a more or less exact copy of the international GP setup with everybody earning points at two events towards qualifying for Nationals/the Final, for singles skating that would probably mean around 10-12 skaters tops per event, resulting in 30-36 skaters fighting for a spot at Nats. For pairs and dance it can be less.
Not necessarily that small. When there were doing Russian events cups, they managed even 20 skaters in some categories. Don’t forget, this won’t be internal competitions so some rules regarding providing practice ice and starting or finishing at certain time does not need to apply. They could easily compete from 6am till 10 pm.

In fact, I can’t imagine that the field would be so small, because the majority of skaters who before competed at GPs didn’t have to do Russians cup. Some of the, did, but most didn’t. And now it will be for all skaters, those who did GP and those who attended Russian cups. And all need to be able to have two events…

I also agree with @hanca that it will be intriguing to watch everyone trying to qualify for Nats through the same events. We almost had that in the first Covid season, though so many national team skaters failed to show up at two Russian Cup events due to illness, they all got wild cards in the end. I hope they'll enforce the attendance rule this season, I don't want to see any skaters biding their time on national team funding and only showing up to Nationals.

Not thrilled about the Jumping Competition three weeks before Nationals! It's awkward in terms of pacing and honestly it's an injury waiting to happen.
Yes, I would also not have it three weeks before nationals. On the other hand, the skaters are doing all those hard jumps every dat at training, so why would the competition with those jumps was more dangerous than the training?
And what exactly is the point of the Russian Grand Prix Final? Will it just be Nationals Round Two, only less prestigious? Don't get me wrong, the more events the better, but it would be nice if they found a way for some "lower level" skaters who didn't make Nats to skate at the RGP Final. Just look at the delightful performances Matvei Vetlugin delivered at last season's RCF.
The point of Russian GPF will be likely the same as the point of Russian Cup final. Whoever does very well, has a chance to get at least to the reserve team (if they messed up at the nationals, or if they completely missed nationals/did not qualify for the nationals.)

In terms of new "domestic" rules, I don't think there will be any significant changes to existing ISU regulations. Firstly, many skaters already have their new programs choreographed, so it would be problematic for Rusfed to suddenly announce that the FS is 30 seconds longer now and must include a mandatory cartwheel 😜. Secondly, though I personally doubt it, there is still the chance that the Russians will be allowed back into international competition under whatever conditions for the second part of the season, so they should practise standard ISU programs just in case.
What I could see happening is that women are allowed to do quads in the SP.
Maybe. Or maybe they will be more relaxed in the age categories- e.g. not follow age eligibility as decided by ISU, but do it according to as eligible for seniors at the nationals (must be at least 14).
 

CrazyKittenLady

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I wonder if they will hold 'test skates' in Sept. My favorite skating event of the year. In fact, I think the most exciting event, because there isn't the stress of competition, but everyone still brings their best. (Or tries to.) Of course this year is different but...still. I love to see the new programs, etc.
Yes, test skates are planned as usual for September. I also enjoy them a lot, I like it when everyone skates in their all-black training outfits (yeah, I'm weird that way) and of course, the excitement of seeing the new programs for the first time. :jump:

it makes sense to keep the same schedule as in the international competitions,
Definitely, and it also makes sense to have juniors and seniors compete at the same locations right after another. Saves the coaches some travelling and it's easier for the local organizers as well. But it will be a wild ride for us fans who want to watch both.

They could easily compete from 6am till 10 pm.
Oh dear, considering the time zones, I already see myself getting up at 2am to watch the Russian lads. 😅

the skaters are doing all those hard jumps every day at training, so why would the competition with those jumps was more dangerous than the training?
Depends on what jumps they are doing for the jump competition. Wouldn't just the usual quads be a bit boring? I guess they'll have to go for five jump combos and other crazy elements, and that's not something you'd usually practise. Maybe they do it for fun or insta likes a couple of times, but not in regular training before such an important competition as Nationals.

The point of Russian GPF will be likely the same as the point of Russian Cup final. Whoever does very well, has a chance to get at least to the reserve team (if they messed up at the nationals, or if they completely missed nationals/did not qualify for the nationals.)
But qualification for Nats and the RGPF will be through the same events, so they will have exactly the same skaters, unless they make the field at RGPF significantly larger. But then they really must increase the number of skaters at the individual stages too, otherwise there will be no intrigue as to who qualifies.
Anyway, I'm looking forward to the revamped Cup of Russia aka RGP getting more prestige this season and seeing a lot of the not so well-known skaters compete there.

e.g. not follow age eligibility as decided by ISU
They could definitely do that, just as they did for Valieva in the first domestic Covid season. But it won't make a difference anywhere but in ladies.
 

CrazyKittenLady

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I'm assuming the new GP is going to replace the Russian cup? or is the Russian cup still going to be held just for nats qualification?
Yes, Russian GP will replace the Cup of Russia (at least that's what they said after the fed meeting in mid-May).
 

hanca

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But qualification for Nats and the RGPF will be through the same events, so they will have exactly the same skaters, unless they make the field at RGPF significantly larger. But then they really must increase the number of skaters at the individual stages too, otherwise there will be no intrigue as to who qualifies.
Anyway, I'm looking forward to the revamped Cup of Russia aka RGP getting more prestige this season and seeing a lot of the not so well-known skaters compete there.
Not really. Qualifications for nationals and for Russian cup finals as it has been up to now has also been by the same events, and yet there were not exactly the same skaters. Usually when someone did well at the nationals, they did not have the need the skate at the Russian cup final (unless the federation needed to have a skate off between two skaters for the remaining spot at worlds). The Russian cup final has been used for skaters who either missed the nationals and had no chance to qualify for nationals, or who did badly at the nationals and wanted to have another chance. Of course there were also some skaters who didn’t need to qualify, but it was considered like a second chance event. It wouldn’t get anyone on the main team, but a chance to get to the reserve team.
 

hanca

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Yes, Russian GP will replace the Cup of Russia (at least that's what they said after the fed meeting in mid-May).
It may make a difference in pairs. If there is a bigger age difference between the pair, it would not be helpful when the guy ages out of juniors and the girl is still not senior eligible.
 

lariko

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Now we'll have to wait one month longer for the season to begin and then it will be basically two months of non-stop competitions with only Monday and Tuesday as free days if you want to follow Juniors as well. Even the most hardcore figure skating fans won't manage to watch all of that and for me it means I'll probably only follow men and the occasional pairs event.
My feeling is that I would be catching Russians first and leaving international stuff for later because replays will be most likely available for all the int competitions, while Russians could be live-stream only deal or some weird access ways. In this respect, the streams and archiving is my main concern, particularly for Juniors! At least all of the international junior season would be basically over...

Which is actually a cool thing. Long junior season with a lot more of junior competitions.

Basically, for me, it will probably end up all juniors, all pairs, and a bit of senior women/ice-dance depending on who competes.
 
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CrazyKittenLady

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Some relevant information about the Russian GP from Kogan as published on https://t.me/s/sportrian today:

On age eligibility and new component rules:
"At the stages of the Grand Prix of Russia and the Russian Championship in the coming season athletes who are 14 years old on July 1, 2022 will be allowed to participate. These are the rules of the previous year," Alexander Kogan, general director of the Russian Figure Skating Federation, told reporters.
At the same time, he noted that the figure skating tournaments in the upcoming season in Russia will take into account the decisions of the ISU Congress.
"Our competitions will be held under the new three-component judging. What is the point of holding competitions with the old five-component judging, if we should focus on the scores that athletes will receive, including those abroad, so that if we are allowed, we will be ready to participate, compete and fight on equal terms? Our [national] judges are definitely more qualified than most of those who are now judging," noted Kogan.

On participation of non-Russian athletes in the RGP:
"There are strict ISU rules. If two countries meet, it is an international competition, but they are banned in Russia. For any international competition we need permission from ISU, which we will not get. That is why participation of foreign athletes in Russian tournaments will be possible only out of competition, and only if they will not represent their country, but some club, and if the competition will be held not by the federation, but by a club.
We raised the question of theoretical participation of foreigners in our Grand Prix before the ISU Congress with a reservation - if we were expelled from the ISU. But in general, we are ready for the participation of foreigners, if they agree to such difficult conditions," Alexander Kogan, Director General of the Russian Figure Skating Federation, told reporters.
 

lariko

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Interesting bit about 3 components judging. Really looking forward to seeing how it works… though preferably not in Russia. Lol. Sorry, love Russian skaters, but their judges… not so much.
 

AlexBreeze

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Some news from SPB Fed:

1) They have updated the calendar of events.

2) SPB Test Skates will be held with audience so I hope we'll have info and videos.

 

lariko

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CrazyKittenLady

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And St. Petersburg Test Skates will be from September 5-7 with live audience.
https://vk.com/lizatuktamisheva?w=wall-32932414_43295

I don't think the Moscow Fed has test skates, do they?

ETA: Ooops, I just realized @AlexBreeze already posted this info above. Maybe I should read through the thread before posting stuff. :palmf:
 
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AlexBreeze

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Russian GP entries will be published after the Test Skates (according to Trankov's interview).
 
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