2022 Olympics: Men's Short Program

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Invalid elements aren't considered "serious errors" in terms of PCS - This is what the official ISU rules (if you have a newer source with different information, please let me know) say about PCS caps:

"If a program contains a Serious error, the maximum scores are listed below:
Skating Skills, Transitions, Composition: Maximum score 9.75.
Performance and Interpretation: Maximum score 9.50.
If a program contains Serious errors, the maximum scores are listed below:
Skating Skills, Transitions, Composition: Maximum score 9.25.
Performance and Interpretation: Maximum score 8.75.
Serious errors are falls, interruptions during the program and technical mistakes that impact the integrity/continuity/fluidity of the composition and/or its relation to the music.
Similar limitations must be applied to all levels of Skaters from extremely poor to outstanding."

Would you consider Yuzuru's popped 4S to fall into any of these categories? (I personally wouldn't - he went straight into a transition and went on with his program as if nothing had happened.)

Come on now. A pop is a serious error. We aren’t talking about tripling a quad - he popped it to a single.

A pop absolutely affects the integrity of a performance. There was an audible gasp when he popped the jump, and while everything else was done well, it was an unambiguously critical error. The overall impact of this skate was fundamentally different from if he had skated it cleanly.

If he popped all three jumping passes and went on with his program as if nothing happened should he still be allowed to get 10.00?

A program with a singled quad absolutely should not get 9.75 for PE or IN, which some judges still incorrectly gave him.

The rules even clarify that the rules must apply to all levels of skaters from extremely poor to outstanding — as if to almost acknowledge that some judges will ignore this when it comes to top-tier skaters.

 

[viennaskater]

- Sihyeong showed us what a Zombo is. @Ichatdelune

What's a Zombo?

 

[figureskatingandrainbows]

He already has! Team Bronze!

Nope, only the skaters who compete in the Team Event win a medal

 

[viennaskater]

Nope, only the skaters who compete in the Team Event win a medal

Oops! I did not know that - I thought the whole TEAM got medals. How embarrassing ...

 

[solani]

Jumps are not the only risk in figure skating. Intricate steps, spins and executing difficult choreo also takes a great deal of athleticism and involves risk. As Kurt Browning said (I use this quote a lot ) “you may need to be a skater to understand just how difficult it is to do what Jason Brown does” (paraphrasing).

Not everyone is going to like the same skater, and that’s OK. Not everyone will value the same elements, and that’s OK.

but the fact that such difficult intricate skating looks “safe” shows just how good Jason is at what he does.

Well, I broke my wrist a couple of days ago while skating ... so I don't consider myself to be an adept skater, haha.
But I still don't get it. Mao was lowballed in PCS her whole career because of her underrotations (while doing the most difficult elements!) and here a skater with a questionable axel and a underrotated combo gets rewarded like no one else. With mediocre jump content.
I would have him behind Keegan.
It's not that I don't like Jason. I just think he's overscored. He'll be great in shows. I would certainly pay to see him. But he should not be in the last group of the free skate at the Olympics in 2022.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

he could have some dignity and stop saying that, he was only third in first group AFTER ice resurfacing. What nathan, jason, keegan yuma and other guys had to say? They were all perfect. Ice was very good. It is disrespectful.

To me, the motions just before his short where he was going through the motions of his salchow showed that he wasn’t confident in his quad salchow. He was taking time to get started and I didn’t feel like he looked comfortable. He has had issues in the past with the timing of his quad salchow leading to pops as well.

He’s not one to make excuses …. But this is a bad look, blaming the ice, especially after it had pretty much just been resurfaced and the 9 other guys after him had no major problems.

 

[brigit66]

To me, the motions just before his short where he was going through the motions of his salchow showed that he wasn’t confident in his quad salchow. He was taking time to get started and I didn’t feel like he looked comfortable. He has had issues in the past with the timing of his quad salchow leading to pops as well.

He’s not one to make excuses but this is a bad look, blaming the ice.

Exactly, I saw that too.I think he was just nervous
He can't say that it is his fault, after that hype.

 

[elektra blue]

What's a Zombo?

according to @yume 's dictionary a fall on a missing combo with splatting on the ice included

 

[lariko]

This may have been answered already but I haven't the energy to trawl through all the posts, so ... can anyone tell me WHY Daniel got marked so low? Like him and his coach team, I could not believe my eyes when the scores came up.

Grassl gets dinged on edges and under rotations on his biggest jump, the Lutz. His free leg position in the combo wasn’t ideal either. But he loads his free skate, so I am holding out hope that he will climb in the ranks. He can’t beat his Eu ranking here, but I still want him to place high!

 

[lariko]

he could have some dignity and stop saying that, he was only third in first group AFTER ice resurfacing. What nathan, jason, keegan yuma and other guys had to say? They were all perfect. Ice was very good. It is disrespectful.

Unfortunately, it also resulted in the hate attack against Mozalev in social media. That really is unacceptable.

 

[16Olympics]

I'm just so proud of what the men did, especially in the last two groups. Nathan vanquished his demons, Shoma exceeded expectations, Yuma was a warrior, Jun was a delight and showed his skills and Morisi was, for me, enjoyable to watch for the first time. Jason was stunning. Keegan did well given his traumatic lead up to the sp. Yuzu's skate was unexpected but these things happen. I hope he'll be okay. I'm here to support them to have a good skate and cheer extra for my favs while cheering for them all to do well.

 

[Greengemmonster]

Unfortunately, it also resulted in the hate attack against Mozalev in social media. That really is unacceptable.

Oh dear are they blaming the skater before him for digging a hole in the ice or something?

That doesn't make sense though! Shouldn't everyone after him fall or get caught in that hole too? It's not like they can strategically avoid it while performing!!!

 

[Jumping_Bean]

but giving 9,75 is too much with a pop and not so amazing skating overall, right? He was overscored, but hanyu could be never overscored because he has to have at least 9,25 while stepping on ice

Pops literally do not matter for PCS (or do you have any official documents proving otherwise?), so you cannot argue about which PCS scores were too high or too low using them. "Not so amazing skating" is your personal opinion (and I don't think your opinion on Hanyu is particularly neutral), others will say his skating was flawless in all of the ways that matter for PCS (Reminder: PCS ≠ TES, as per the ISU rules they are supposed to be kept separate unless a technical fault severely impacts the program like a fall does for example).

Come on now. A pop is a serious error. We aren’t talking about tripling a quad - he popped it to a single.
A pop absolutely affects the integrity of a performance. There was an audible gasp when he popped the jump, and while everything else was done well, it was an unambiguously critical error. The overall impact of this skate was fundamentally different from if he had skated it cleanly.

If he popped all three jumping passes and went on with his program as if nothing happened should he still be allowed to get 10.00?

A program with a singled quad absolutely should not get 9.75 for PE or IN, which some judges still incorrectly gave him.

The rules even clarify that the rules must apply to all levels of skaters from extremely poor to outstanding — as if to almost acknowledge that some judges will ignore this when it comes to top-tier skaters.

Nowhere in the whole rule does it mention impact on the audience as a criterion for a serious error (or PCS for that matter) - I guess with that thinking, Sasha Trusova should receive all 10s for a clean 5 quad-Free Skate, after all the impact that will have will be huge. Nor does it mention integrity of the performance, it mentions integrity of the composition. This is a very deliberate usage of the word. Composition, as per the ISU, is "An intentionally developed and/or original arrangement of all types of movements according to the principles of musical phrase, space, pattern, and structure." - Let me ask again, was this impacted?

As for your question - Yes, theoretically even programs with no valid jump element or only singles and doubles should be able to receive 10s. Why? Because TES and PCS were deliberately separated. The goal was to be able to independently judge them, including every single PCS component. Theoretically, it should also be possible for a skater to receive a 9.00 in performance and a 4.50 in transitions. (In fact, there are many (retired) skaters out there, who can't jump anything more than a double jump (anymore), but whose skating skills and performative abilities still far surpass the majority of skaters currently competing.) It might not fit your worldview, but this is how the judging system was designed (even if it is not how it is employed, due to human bias - technically challenging skates are very impressive, which can overshadow artistic or choreographic flaws).

The reason they deliberately mention that this applies to all levels of skaters is actually the exact opposite of your thought process. The limitations explicitly mentioned are the limitations for a skater who usually scores 10.00. So the limitations for a skater usually scoring 9.00 should be 8.75 and 8.50 with one serious error, 8.25 and 7.75 with multiple. For a skater usually scoring 8.00, they should be 7.75 and 7.50 with one serious error, 7.25 and 6.75 with multiple. And so on. As these scores aren't explicitly mentioned, you will often see judges not adhering to these rules (For example Anna S. - With a clean SP, she received 36.34 PCS (Average: 9.085 per PCS category) at IdF. At Euros, she received 36.26 PCS with a fall (a definite serious error). Obviously, this isn't even remotely Anna's fault, but shows how judges disregard the rules - Her maximum PCS score should have been around 34.60, 1.66 points below the score she received.)

 

[DancingCactus]

Try out the replay of the live stream on ZDF. There you should find the whole event. (Not sure if you will need VPN though...)

Okay, just checked it out, it's only possible with VPN.

Here's the link: https://www.zdf.de/sport/olympia/eiskunstlauf/eiskunstlauf-kurzprogramm-m-100.html

It works, thanks so much!
I have to watch the skaters I missed.

Regarding those from the last two groups I saw:

- Yuzu So unlucky. Not sure if he can make it to the podium...maybe he should rather concentrate on landing that 4A, that would be sensational even if he doesn't medal. But still, that short program is so great.
- Shoma: I loved it. And his jumps seem to have gotten more stable lately, so I'm kinda confident about the free skate
- Yuma is a great jumper and his SS are fantastic, but the rest is not quite there yet, I think...though he did try. Hate the music, sorry.
- Keegan: That much power and speed even after what he has gone through. And I love his spins and that russian split...shame about the stumble in the step sequence but personally I still feel he should have scored a bit higher.
- Jason: So glad he managed to show that wonderful program at the Olympics. He should get all the PCS....Imagine what it would have been like if there had actually been an audience, they would have gone wild. Again, splits ftw.

---Nathan: Yeah, I guess he deserves 1st place due to the jumps but come on with the PCS. No way his artistry is on par with Jason, Yuzu or Shoma. Or even Keegan, who has way more personality on the ice or Deniss, Kolyada or many others. I concede that Nathan's performance has gotten better compared to four years ago, but surely not better than the top PCS skaters'. This is just ridiculous. I swear his steps and spins at the end were actually too fast for the music.

 

[lariko]

Oh dear are they blaming the skater before him for digging a hole in the ice or something?

That doesn't make sense though! Shouldn't everyone after him fall or get caught in that hole too? It's not like they can strategically avoid it while performing!!!

Yes. He also managed to warm up a spin during Hanyu’s run-through so this is obviously Mozalev’s clever strategy to sabotage Yuzuru. And yes, there were death threats.

So, to sum up, Mozalev’s Olympics went:

Fall on 4S
pop on 3A
Wrath of fans

…and that’s only the short program. He still called Olympics a celebration. Me, I kinda hope that the misfortunes come in threes, because there are unchecked misfortunes still left

 

[Icey]

Recall the time when a leading pair's music didn't play and they skated the entire program without music. Did they have to skate their program again?
Recall Harding getting a restart after she claimed her boot strap broke?
And another time when some sequins on the ice caused a problem for a skater. Can't remember, but was that skater allowed to start over?

 

[Greengemmonster]

I've always assumed there was lots of crap on the ice and they somehow just had to navigate it?

How are you going to patch up every little chip and hole? Aren't they all digging into it with their blades when they jump?

 

[Greengemmonster]

Yes. He also managed to warm up a spin during Hanyu’s run-through so this is obviously Mozalev’s clever strategy to sabotage Yuzuru. And yes, there were death threats.

So, to sum up, Mozalev’s Olympics went:

Fall on 4S
pop on 3A
Wrath of fans

…and that’s only the short program. He still called Olympics a celebration. Me, I kinda hope that the misfortunes come in threes, because there are unchecked misfortunes still left

Cripes people are nuts!!!!! So this poor fellow has pitchforks after him because someone ELSE fell on a jump? Madness!!!!!

**Huggles** Between this and Vincent I gather you're having a rough Olympics. Everytime I remember Vincent's face during his speech I want to cry. And that SP that we had hoped would make it to Beijing. Sorry. I'll stop now

 

[sjchilly]

Unfortunately, it also resulted in the hate attack against Mozalev in social media. That really is unacceptable.

I condemn the hate attacks against Mozalev. I do want to know where his PCS scores came from. Also don't see the PCS given Kondratiuk. They both got PCS scores about the same as Grassl and Rizzo.

 

[brigit66]

Oh dear are they blaming the skater before him for digging a hole in the ice or something?

That doesn't make sense though! Shouldn't everyone after him fall or get caught in that hole too? It's not like they can strategically avoid it while performing!!!

there were no hole...if it it was, men in last group would have fell or pop all over the place