2022 U.S. Championships: Senior Women's Short Program

[mskater93]

That combination looked like it should be UR, but whatever, it's nationals.

Bell's combo was clean. Chen not so much

 

[labgoat]

Was skating their hobby though? Or were they serious about it?

I would say Alyssa, Sarah & Sasha all trained at the same intensity with a goal of the Olympics. Sarah and Sasha had more professional opportunities available afterwards than Alyssa. Sarah was obviously preparing to go to school afterwards. Sasha mentioned in profiles that she had many goals and dreams and wanted to live a full life outside of skating. She explored fashion, acting, cooking and finally settled on getting a law degree. I don't read too much into the use of the word hobby as it may just be Alyssa's way of saying that she realizes she may only want one Olympic cycle or have discovered other goals she wants more.

I do hope that once she qualifies for OG, that she will embrace what may be a once in a lifetime opportunity and to put all her energies and focus on skating for the next month so she can enjoy her experience and hopefully come home with a medal. I worry that the US team leaders in choosing their skaters for the team event may not want to use a skater who is not fully invested. On paper she has the potential to score highly, but hunger and reliabiity may come into play.

 

[moonvine]

I think if they want to be a champion, they need to handle the pressure.

Zhenya, Alina, Kamila were all "annoited ones" at some stage. Zhenya and Alina delivered big time and have moved onto lucrative careers.

I personally don't agree when people complain about the pressure put on athletes. To be a champion you need to handle the pressure. I feel like it is part of the deal.

It hasn’t worked out for US skaters. I remember when Caroline Zhang was the “anointed one” and the “next Michelle Kwan” (hey, at least they’ve stopped looking for that!) and she didn’t make the transition from Juniors to Seniors well (for whatever reason). The general US figure skating fan does not follow Juniors and wouldn’t have had any way to follow them back then as we can today.

The last 2 Olympic Gold Medalists we’ve had in the Ladies event weren’t the #1 US Lady coming in. It’s fine to say if you want to be a champion you want to handle the pressure, but we are hurting the athletes when we do it.

Even Nathan, who is probably the most unflappable skater I’ve seen in my life, didn’t fare well when the US media pre awarded him the gold medal.

It’s really sad for me to compare the Alysa of today with the Alysa of years past.

 

[ManyCairns]

Because she’s never competed at a senior World Championship or a senior Grand Prix Final, let alone medal at either of those events. Her scores certainly pose no challenge to the Russian or Japanese skaters. She’s being very realistic when she says she has no goal to beat the Russians because she has no hope of doing so and it’s very clear that she doesn’t want her life to be consumed by figure skating the way that it is for the Eteri camp. She wants a healthier balance in her life. I feel bad for Alysa; I see a typical teenager who wants a semblance of a normal life being suffocated by an overbearing skating parent. When she was with Massimo and Jeremy, she was still developing in a positive direction with a genuine smile on her face and joy for the sport. Alysa’s mood since moving to Drew and Viktor is like a 180 shift; she appears to be drained by the unrealistic pressure thrust upon her and over the concept of appeasing her father. She is trying to temper fan’s expectations and approach the stress of this year in a cool, calm and casual manner. I hope she can be happy with the way everything unfolds.

Excellent point! And though the rest of your post seems likely, I do think it is still conjecture -- we don't know for sure that Alysa didn't want the coaching change or has to appease her father in this particular way, do we? Or was it confirmed somewhere? (Genuinely asking. )

 

[moonvine]

Excellent point! And though the rest of your post seems likely, I do think it is still conjecture -- we don't know for sure that Alysa didn't want the coaching change or has to appease her father in this particular way, do we? Or was it confirmed somewhere? (Genuinely asking. )

We may never know for sure. Given things that Alysa has said I personally believe it wasn’t her choice, but that’s just idle speculation. Which I like to avoid so I’ll shut up now.

 

[Dawn825]

Bell's combo was clean. Chen not so much

Not it wasn't. It was fully under. Thorngren was the only one in the top 5 with a clean combo.

 

[TontoK]

Basically the judges did to Amber what they did to Agnes Zawadzki back in 2014 and that was send a message that they were tired of waiting for her to skate to her potential and dropped her like a hot potato.

​

I honestly don't see this as sending a message. I like Amber, but that was just really bad on a night when many were better. Of course I feel for her. No one wants to see an athlete fail at the critical moment, but she was judged on what she delivered.

If there was intent by the judges to "send a message" then she made it very easy for them to do it.

 

[elliana]

I'm not sure where Amber goes from here. Now that she's almost certainly off the podium, I'm assuming this means either no or very little funding from USFS next year?
So it seems highly unlikely that she will decide to up and move cross country to change coaches given how expensive that is.

 

[el henry]

I mean I saw the IG post in question. Yes, she said it. But I didn’t take a screenshot or anything.

The things she’s said at Nationals have disturbed me. “Skating is my hobby, it’s what I do for fun.”

“I don’t plan to skate forever.”

“I don’t have a goal to beat the Russians.”

I think these answers for a teenager are *wonderful*.

I am so tired of “no life outside skating“ being held up as some sort of personal virtue. If winning were only a result of “working hard” or dedication, we’d have a 24 way tie for gold medals.

Now Alysa may be expressing herself for other reasons, and may have issues with the coaching change, I don’t know. But these answers sound perfectly good to me

 

[moonvine]

I'm not sure where Amber goes from here. Now that she's almost certainly off the podium, I'm assuming this means either no or very little funding from USFS next year?
So it seems highly unlikely that she will decide to up and move cross country to change coaches given how expensive that is.

She could get Envelope C money if she finished 8th at Nationals. I guess that is some sort of remote possibility.

https://www.usfigureskating.org/sites/default/files/media-files/2022-23%20Athlete%20Support%20Funding%20Criteria%20Final.pdf

I’m not a big Tik Tok person but she apparently has a huge Tik Tok following. I hope she makes some money off of it.

 

[moonvine]

I think these answers for a teenager are *wonderful*.

I am so tired of “no life outside skating“ being held up as some sort of personal virtue. If winning were only a result of “working hard” or dedication, we’d have a 24 way tie for gold medals.

Now Alysa may be expressing herself for other reasons, and may have issues with the coaching change, I don’t know. But these answers sound perfectly good to me

It was not my intent to set that standard.

 

[georgia]

Not it wasn't. It was fully under. Thorngren was the only one in the top 5 with a clean combo.

It was clean. End of the story.

 

[mskater93]

Johnny was making me sick talking about the Russians’ great artistry/performance. Oh really? Who needs artistry when you have quads?

What artistry from the Russians? Puh-leeze, his love of all things Russian clowns (intentional) his judgement. Valieva, yes. The balance? uh-uh

 

[lariko]

There is no universal justice in this world. There are people's emotions regarding what they believe is injustice. There are counter emotions of other people. As a result there are conflicts. Was Isabeau underscored? I think, absolutely. But may be it is my bias. Because, to me it's not about her having Yulia Kuznetsova as a coach. It's about her balerina style skating (I would not go further saying "Russian style skating"). And this style is my favorite one.

Sure, same as in RusNats scoring is not reflective of what the viewers saw. And in Japan. It is particularly obvious from the outside.

 

[ManyCairns]

It's too bad Alysa Liu was never taught how to actually jump. Her awful skittering, turn-on-the-ice "jumps" were blatantly flawed as a Junior and it's such a nightmare that we live in a world where they still aren't being assessed correctly. So many of her "triple" jumps then, and now, are barely more than 2 rotations in the air. I still vomit whenever hearing any kind of talk about her supposed "quad". Skating with CoP has truly turned into a Trumpian world, where reality doesn't matter, only what can be put down on paper, within the scope of some very flawed rules.

...

Mariah Bell was nice and did give some inspired emoting at points, but the Long Program this year is stronger for her. This program has a lot of tinkling music that she doesn't fully express, she gives a general sense of softness, but not TO the music all the time. There's also a deep sense of loss embedded in the music that she doesn't really have the capability of grappling with as a performer. Her vibe is uplifting, that's what she can do. Not gravitas.


...

Interesting thoughts on Alysa's trajectory re: the technical aspects of her jumps. She was never my cup of tea, so I haven't followed her closely, though frankly nothing about her or her skating makes me want to vomit. But I do strongly deplore watching these seemingly endless cycles in the US of anointing junior skaters -- many with questionable technique that rarely upholds them once they reach the senior ranks -- as future gold medalists, champions of the world, bringers of global peace, etc.

I certainly see Mariah's music as having gravitas, but for me it is not exactly loss so much as the existential reality of life and death for mortal creatures, versus the relative timelessness of "the river" -- the elements of earth, sky, water. We can't have that infinity of time, but we console ourselves with the beauty of it all and the circle of life (river flowing "in you"). If Mariah came out like a "pretty princess" in a sparkly costume with her hair up and a tiara, I would agree that she was missing the point, and grievously so. But her presentation, with the simple costume and hair, and her movements through the program as she performs the choreo -- more than generic softness, _for me_, she's gets it, and she shows she gets it.

 

[labgoat]

Bye folks I am going to watch RD practice...

 

[el henry]

It was not my intent to set that standard.

I did not mean to say you felt that way. I know you were only trying to relate what Alyssa said.
In the words of Mr. Spock, “ I do not create the mythologies, Captain, I only report them.”

 

[jenaj]

I just watched the top three again. From just an enjoyment point of view, I liked Karen Chen the best. I couldn't tell if her 3-3 was UR. It wasn't called. Mariah's 3-3 looked good to me. I loved her spiral. Alysa's program, except for the fall, was good. Her 3-3 looked the best she has done this year--no UR or Q. And she is the only one of these three doing it in the second half. I give her credit for trying the 3A. She would have been the clear winner if she had just done a double. She can do the jump as we saw in the warm-up. Fingers crossed for the long program.

 

[moonvine]

Interesting thoughts on Alysa's trajectory re: the technical aspects of her jumps. She was never my cup of tea, so I haven't followed her closely, though frankly nothing about her or her skating makes me want to vomit. But I do strongly deplore watching these seemingly endless cycles in the US of anointing junior skaters -- many with questionable technique that rarely upholds them once they reach the senior ranks -- as future gold medalists, champions of the world, bringers of global peace, etc.

I certainly see Mariah's music as having gravitas, but for me it is not exactly loss so much as the existential reality of life and death for mortal creatures, versus the relative timelessness of "the river" -- the elements of earth, sky, water. We can't have that infinity of time, but we console ourselves with the beauty of it all and the circle of life (river flowing "in you"). If Mariah came out like a "pretty princess" in a sparkly costume with her hair up and a tiara, I would agree that she was missing the point, and grievously so. But her presentation, with the simple costume and hair, and her movements through the program as she performs the choreo -- more than generic softness, _for me_, she's gets it, and she shows she gets it.

Yep. They’re now annointing Isabeau and Lindsay. I don’t get it. I enjoy watching the full grown fully actualized women skate. But the end all and be all for me is not beating the Russians. US Nats are my favorite comp and always will be.

 

[jenaj]

Not it wasn't. It was fully under. Thorngren was the only one in the top 5 with a clean combo.

Alysa's was clean. Mariah's, too.