2022 U.S. Championships: Senior Women's Short Program

[Tomadeur]

That's not true, at all. Ashley Wagner won 12 Grand Prix medals, and 5 of those were gold medals. She won 1 silver and 2 bronze medals at Grand Prix Finals from 2012 to 2015. She won 4 Continents in 2012, and she won the silver medal at the 2016 World Championships.

Bradie Tennell has won 4 GP medals, since 2017, and a bronze at 4CC. Gracie Gold won 6 GP medals. While Karen Chen hasn't won GP medals, she's won medals at Challengers, as has Bradie. Mariah Bell has won 4 Grand Prix medals, as well as a number of medals at Challengers. There may be more examples, but it's too late for me to look up any more.

Mirai won a lot of Grand Prix medals, and she was the Four Continents princess, too.

As I clarified in my post it wasn't my intention to say that US women haven't won anything, but since 2006 they have had little success in the major events (olympics, worlds, gp finals) after decades of consistent success in these competitions. So it's understandable in my mind that members of the fed/press are hyped at talents (in that case Lyu) that could bring them back to the past success.

 

[moonvine]

Wow. Is this true? Can this be confirmed?

But to be fair…even if I otherwise liked something, I think I would grow to resent or hate it too if everyone in the media, federation, and fan base was anointing me as The Next Great One and expecting medals and the ability to fill the shoes of past greats…this is why I cringe every time I see someone being hyped up. And this is to speak nothing of family pressures…which can make the situation even worse…

Also remember that she is in her teenage years, so there’s that dynamic playing out too. After the Olympic season is up, Team Liu can evaluate the situation and whether she wants to continue or not.

Now, having said all that, all this must be ultimately

I mean I saw the IG post in question. Yes, she said it. But I didn’t take a screenshot or anything.

The things she’s said at Nationals have disturbed me. “Skating is my hobby, it’s what I do for fun.”

“I don’t plan to skate forever.”

“I don’t have a goal to beat the Russians.”

 

[Greengemmonster]

I just think this is so interesting (and though I hadn’t learned how to insert media I can’t get it to work right now) where Alysa says “skating is her hobby.” I would not think an elite skater would think of skating as their hobby. She also says in another tweet that her goal isn’t to beat the Russians. What do y’all make of this?

https://twitter.com/rockerskating/status/1479301505136082953?s=21

Coping mechanism maybe?

I have no idea what's going on but there seems to be some sort of teen rebellion in play.

It will be interesting to see how things play out after the Olympics. I wouldn't be surprised if she heads off to college and just gets on with normal life.

 

[Greengemmonster]

Wow. Is this true? Can this be confirmed?

But to be fair…even if I otherwise liked something, I think I would grow to resent or hate it too if everyone in the media, federation, and fan base was anointing me as The Next Great One and expecting medals and the ability to fill the shoes of past greats…this is why I cringe every time I see someone being hyped up. And this is to speak nothing of family pressures…which can make the situation even worse…

Also remember that she is in her teenage years, so there’s that dynamic playing out too. After the Olympic season is up, Team Liu can evaluate the situation and whether she wants to continue or not.

Now, having said all that, all this must be ultimately accepted as part of the game and something to overcome if success is what she truly desires.

I think if they want to be a champion, they need to handle the pressure.

Zhenya, Alina, Kamila were all "annoited ones" at some stage. Zhenya and Alina delivered big time and have moved onto lucrative careers.

I personally don't agree when people complain about the pressure put on athletes. To be a champion you need to handle the pressure. I feel like it is part of the deal.

 

[R.D.]

I mean I saw the IG post in question. Yes, she said it. But I didn’t take a screenshot or anything.

The things she’s said at Nationals have disturbed me. “Skating is my hobby, it’s what I do for fun.”

“I don’t plan to skate forever.”

“I don’t have a goal to beat the Russians.”

I wouldn’t put too much stock into what she says (although I do find that last statement kind of odd coming from a competitor of her level - why WOULDN’T she?)

 

[labgoat]

I mean I saw the IG post in question. Yes, she said it. But I didn’t take a screenshot or anything.

The things she’s said at Nationals have disturbed me. “Skating is my hobby, it’s what I do for fun.”

“I don’t plan to skate forever.”

“I don’t have a goal to beat the Russians.”

To be fair Sarah Hughes and Sasha Cohen also had many plans for beyond skating. They however were close enough technically to have a goal of beating the Russians.

 

[R.D.]

I think if they want to be a champion, they need to handle the pressure.

Zhenya, Alina, Kamila were all "annoited ones" at some stage. Zhenya and Alina delivered big time and have moved onto lucrative careers.

I personally don't agree when people complain about the pressure put on athletes. To be a champion you need to handle the pressure. I feel like it is part of the deal.

For the most part I don’t disagree with you here. I do think “it is what it is” and ultimately the ability to deal with the pressure is what creates legends. And if you deliver once, I think it is fair game for folks to raise their expectations.

Where I have an issue is when people make these types of calculations based purely on what they THINK the athlete is capable of, not what the athlete has actually demonstrated. It’s one thing if a skater has previously shown dominance, or solid competitive spirit, but I see a lot of hype based on perceived talent alone. And we all know that alone is not enough for success. I personally want to see it before I believe it, but that is just me.

 

[Greengemmonster]

Where I have an issue is when people make these types of calculations based purely on what they THINK the athlete is capable of, not what the athlete has actually shown. It’s one thing if a skater has previously shown dominance, or solid competitive spirit, but I see a lot of hype based on perceived talent alone. And we all know that alone is not enough for success. I personally want to see it before I believe it, but that is just me.

This I completely agree with!

 

[Jammers]

So finally awake enough to actually share my thoughts in this thread. I was really tired while watching it live last night and wasn´t able to keep up with the thread, but it was worth staying awake for!

I have to go back and rewatch some of the skates. Thanks to Olympic Channel streaming it and make it possible to watch with both such high quality.

So first of all, I wanted to say something about Jill Heiner because she impressed me. Boy does she have great jumps and such a joy of a personality! Kate Wang was another highlight for me, so clean and nice skate.

I don´t know what to say about Amber but that was really heartbreaking. Even with the mistakes I did not think the judges would give her that low score, that was really harsh. All though, she has nothing to loose so I hope she at least will have the FS of her life. I have a feeling she will land the 3A now that the pressure is kinda off. But anyways, it won´t make up for the mistakes from the SP so unless something odd happens she will not be going to Beijing

Gracie Gold clean skate was the best thing off the SP for me, it really was a one of those magic moment which I have been waiting and dreaming off. Her smile, the audience giving standing O. Well in my mind I had perhaps pictured a full audience, but I take what we get in this pandemic days. I wish though the judges would have given her 1-2 points more and more close to the 70, her performance was better then in Alpharetta but the scores didn´t reflect that. But judges was stingy with others so i´m not surprised either. Most important thing is Gracie will skate in the last group in the FS and it was just enough to push her into that final group!!! This might boost her score more in the FS if she can pull off a similar performance.

Levito was lovely as always. It´s nice to see the 3Lz-3Lo combo. She pulls it off and she looks so confident and i´m sure she will skate a clean FS and set the standard for the final group. She has no fear in skating, it´s like she flies over the ice and that is so nice to watch. I can see how she is inspired by Zhenya.

Mariah put on such a lovely performance. She really delivers and she looked fast and sharp. IMO she was a bit overscored on some of the elements. She got over 8 points for her lutz, which I think was quite generous. All though I have to say I agree with the standings so i´m not going to argue about scores and I was kinda expecting it.

I think Karens performance was the second best for me after Gracie. The new SP was just lovely to watch, such an outstanding performance, and that dress was absolute stunning and fitted the program so well. This is one of those programs that screams of Olympic. Something to remember. I think it´s rightly that she placed just second after Mariah because of her combo and she deserved the highest PCS mark. I´m glad both Mariah and Karen landed the triple triple.

Lindsay came out there and skated the life out of her. She is so strong and confident. Her combo looked better now and her spins and all is rock solid. She actually reminds me a lot of Bradie with her technical strengths, it´s superb. All though, I have to say I disagree with you that Lindsay was robbed and should place higher. I actually think her score was pretty decent for her skate. She does not have the same natural ability of performance like Mariah and Karen, I find her movements to be rather stiff and a bit slow. But she is still young and can improve her PCS marks, it will be better eventually. If Lindsay should have placed higher she must had pulled out a clean 3A.

I´m not sure what I feel about Alysas performance. First of all she looked completely different with the bangs and all and I also felt she was even taller then a few weeks ago. It´s quite obvious she is going trough a rather big change in her life, not just by the looks but mentally also. It´s something about her presence on ice that is different. When that said, with all that it´s kinda impressive that she still can pull out such a strong skate, she must be very hardworking. But there is something that is maybe a bit off. It´s difficult to tell if the coaching change is good for her or not. But i´m not sure why she went for the 3A in the SP, I don´t think it was a wise move, but I guess her spot on the Olympic Team is safe.....

I´m actually not sure anymore what the podium will be, I think the National Champion could be anyone now. The FS is going to be so exciting. Anyways, the ladies pulled off a lot of strong clean skates, i´m really impressed!

Basically the judges did to Amber what they did to Agnes Zawadzki back in 2014 and that was send a message that they were tired of waiting for her to skate to her potential and dropped her like a hot potato.

​

 

[labgoat]

I actually think it is healthy to have goals beyond skating. Skaters today do not have the professsional opportunities of yesteryear to tour and compete and earn a living. Also I don't see anyone complaining about the fact that Nathan & Vincent have career goals beyond skating. Ashley Wagner also has picked up her schooling post-skating. I worry a bit about the ones who have put all their eggs in the skating basket. Some want to stay in the skating arena as coaches and choreographers and others, especially as they grow and mature beyond their teen years, realize they have interests and skills beyond skating.

 

[museksk8r]

(although I do find that last statement kind of odd coming from a competitor of her level - why WOULDN’T she?)

Because she’s never competed at a senior World Championship or a senior Grand Prix Final, let alone medal at either of those events. Her scores certainly pose no challenge to the Russian or Japanese skaters. She’s being very realistic when she says she has no goal to beat the Russians because she has no hope of doing so and it’s very clear that she doesn’t want her life to be consumed by figure skating the way that it is for the Eteri camp. She wants a healthier balance in her life. I feel bad for Alysa; I see a typical teenager who wants a semblance of a normal life being suffocated by an overbearing skating parent. When she was with Massimo and Jeremy, she was still developing in a positive direction with a genuine smile on her face and joy for the sport. Alysa’s mood since moving to Drew and Viktor is like a 180 shift; she appears to be drained by the unrealistic pressure thrust upon her and over the concept of appeasing her father. She is trying to temper fan’s expectations and approach the stress of this year in a cool, calm and casual manner. I hope she can be happy with the way everything unfolds.

 

[NYscorp6]

I'm so happy for Gracie. It is wonderful to see that smile!

 

[mskater93]

Right, I saw her at 2016 Worlds and she won the SP, so she must have had a good 3-3 at that point.

I think she meant Nationals

 

[jenaj]

As I clarified in my post it wasn't my intention to say that US women haven't won anything, but since 2006 they have had little success in the major events (olympics, worlds, gp finals) after decades of consistent success in these competitions. So it's understandable in my mind that members of the fed/press are hyped at talents (in that case Lyu) that could bring them back to the past success.

Somehow, you are responding to a post by someone else that I was trying to respond to. I thought I had not sent it or deleted it. I wish this platform had an easier way to delete a message you begin to write but decide not to send.

 

[katymay]

I just think this is so interesting (and though I hadn’t learned how to insert media I can’t get it to work right now) where Alysa says “skating is her hobby.” I would not think an elite skater would think of skating as their hobby. She also says in another tweet that her goal isn’t to beat the Russians. What do y’all make of this?

https://twitter.com/rockerskating/status/1479301505136082953?s=21

Coping mechanism maybe?

I have no idea what's going on but there seems to be some sort of teen rebellion in play.

It will be interesting to see how things play out after the Olympics. I wouldn't be surprised if she heads off to college and just gets on with normal life.

Coping mechanism is right I think. At 13/14 she was one of the top juniors in the world. The Russian girls were within spitting distance. Figure skating peaks are fleeting though, and now there is the realization that not only the Russian girls, but Japanese skaters, and Young You have surged ahead of the pack. Not to mention the Russian juniors moving up next year with easy triple axels and multiple quads. As far as it being a hobby? Not hardly, under the direction of Daddy Liu, she was all in, it just didn't play out with the predicted projectory. Hardly a unique situation in figure skating. There is a long list of super star juniors who struggled as they aged, a much smaller list of super star juniors who continued along the same trajectory after reaching seniors.

 

[R.D.]

Basically the judges did to Amber what they did to Agnes Zawadzki back in 2014 and that was send a message that they were tired of waiting for her to skate to her potential and dropped her like a hot potato.

​

Funny, that moment reminded me of Zawadzki 2014 as well. The reaction by Glenn was almost identical, too - like she couldn’t believe it. But I think the 2014 case was much more dramatic - Glenn only had one good breakout year (2021). But Zawadzki had been a contender for at least 3 seasons up until that point, and then the National judges suddenly stopped giving her the BOTD. It’s like they kept her in a bubble all that time only to pop it when most convenient for them. I remember…that was VERY hard to watch…

…and of course, one of the myriad of reasons why I don’t take judging seriously now

 

[moonvine]

I wouldn’t put too much stock into what she says (although I do find that last statement kind of odd coming from a competitor of her level - why WOULDN’T she?)

She says she doesn’t have a goal to beat the Russians. She has a goal to skate like she can skate. I find it weird as well which is why I mentioned it.
I mean when she said skating was her hobby…swimming is my hobby. I could set a goal of making the qualifying times to make Senior Olympics. It would require weight loss and many many many hours in the pool and I still may not make it. It isn’t worth it to me.

I have no idea what an elite athlete means when they say it. I don’t think I’ve ever heard it before. Which is why it struck me as odd.

I wish Alysa all the best no matter what they decide to do or not do.

 

[jenaj]

Basically the judges did to Amber what they did to Agnes Zawadzki back in 2014 and that was send a message that they were tired of waiting for her to skate to her potential and dropped her like a hot potato.

​

Amber had a bad skate. That is why her score was low. A few extra PCS points wouldn't have made a difference.

 

[moonvine]

To be fair Sarah Hughes and Sasha Cohen also had many plans for beyond skating. They however were close enough technically to have a goal of beating the Russians.

Was skating their hobby though? Or were they serious about it?

 

[17children]

Question, please?

When Alysa Liu switched coaches this season, did she also change ice surfaces? Did she move from a rink in the Bay Area to Broadmoor or do I not have my facts straight? How many top skaters trained at her rink before the switch?