2023-24 Grand Prix Final Senior Women's Free Skate

[Alex Fedorov]

I don't know why you are implying there is some sort of judging conspiracy here, she was getting similar scores back then than she is now, the reason she wasn't winning medals was that but she didn't have the tech content to beat skaters with quads and triple axels.

I won’t say anything about any conspiracies, but you are wrong that Loena gets the same points now as she did a few years ago. You can, for example, compare the results of her two short programs at the worlds of 2021 and 2023 - and you will immediately see this. Moreover, these are short programs, that is, in this case no one performed quadruple jumps.

The results of the 2021 short program are generally remarkable. In first place is Anna Shcherbakova, who does not have any triple axel. In second place is Rika Kihira with a triple axel that was not rotated by a quarter, for which she was given a GOE of 0.11. In third place is Tuktamysheva with a clean program and a clean 3A - GOE 1.71. None of the other six skaters who were ahead of Loena had a triple Axel.

In both cases, Loena made serious mistakes, including falls, and in addition the loss of points in 2023 was even more significant, but for some reason the results turned out to be very different - 10th place and 67.28 in 2021 and 5th place and 71.94 points in 2023 .

Quite similar metamorphoses occurred with Kaori Sakamoto. And I won't argue with the fact that favoritism has always been there. It’s just that now this phenomenon looks quite strange - very average skaters are actively being made into “queens”, and their fans are seriously talking about fantastic performances.

 

[Skating91]

I thought Nina was judged really harshly for her landings compared to Isabeau. She was shown no mercy. Nina might have been on the podium if she got the same favourable decisions as Isabeau. I know people try to explain to me that if a skater has been around for a while like Loena then they deserve a free ride from the judges, but what explains 16 year old Isabeau receiving favourable decisions over another 16 year old? This is fundamentally unfair.

Isabeau did not fully rotate a single jump in her free skate. Credit to Isabeau for coming back after the disaster of a short program, staying on her feet, fighting to the end, but every jump had a dirty landing. This was no reflected in the scores. 135 must be a world record score for a program with these types of landings.

3F

Ironically they gave this an unclear edge? Not sure about that.

2A

Hard to justify such GOE when it is barely rotated. Not really any different to what they pulled Nina up for. If it was fully rotated yes, but it was fractionally away from being given a q (not that they would have given her one).

Other 2A

This should have been an underrotation.

3Lz+eu+3S

3F+2T

The other two jump components she did get pulled up, but I'm not sure any jump component should have had more than 0 GOE, and quite a few jumps should have been given a q or underrotation in addition to what she received.

All we want is some accountability. Honest judging will only improve the sport.

 

[Alex Fedorov]

I thought Nina was judged really harshly for her landings compared to Isabeau.

The European Championships are ahead, and if Loena's skating this season develops in the same way as it did a year ago and two years ago, she may well lose to Nina. Although, to be honest, Pinzarrone’s performances do not make much of an impression. Loena is brighter and more interesting. But her content has not improved at all over the past four years.

 

[Skating91]

The European Championships are ahead, and if Loena's skating this season develops in the same way as it did a year ago and two years ago, she may well lose to Nina. Although, to be honest, Pinzarrone’s performances do not make much of an impression. Loena is brighter and more interesting. But her content has not improved at all over the past four years.

Her PCS at Skate America for both programs is top 10 highest of all time under this scoring system. It's an extraordinary rise in PCS.

I don't think Pinzarrone can skate much better than what she did at the GP final, the current European champion has had a precipitous, somewhat inexplicable decline in PCS over the past 12 months, Repond will never replicate that form and her jumps have become much more difficult for her.

I think Loena can win Europeans scoring 190.

 

[skatesofgold]

I don't know why you are implying there is some sort of judging conspiracy here, she was getting similar scores back then than she is now, the reason she wasn't winning medals was that but she didn't have the tech content to beat skaters with quads and triple axels.

I just don't find Loena's programs very pleasant to watch and don't understand why judges don't see it the same way. Maybe that's what happens when you try to make PCS as objective as possible. I suppose, technically, a program doesn't have to be likeable to get high PCS when you've made it into a checklist. It's not actually about audience appeal, but it can be a little confusing to a viewer like me. I guess I just wish someone else would rise to the occasion, but it hasn't happened yet.

 

[labgoat]

Here's one posted by GS on Twitter.

Oh she looks lovely. Very nice choice Isabeau!

 

[Demandred]

I won’t say anything about any conspiracies, but you are wrong that Loena gets the same points now as she did a few years ago. You can, for example, compare the results of her two short programs at the worlds of 2021 and 2023 - and you will immediately see this. Moreover, these are short programs, that is, in this case no one performed quadruple jumps.

The results of the 2021 short program are generally remarkable. In first place is Anna Shcherbakova, who does not have any triple axel. In second place is Rika Kihira with a triple axel that was not rotated by a quarter, for which she was given a GOE of 0.11. In third place is Tuktamysheva with a clean program and a clean 3A - GOE 1.71. None of the other six skaters who were ahead of Loena had a triple Axel.

In both cases, Loena made serious mistakes, including falls, and in addition the loss of points in 2023 was even more significant, but for some reason the results turned out to be very different - 10th place and 67.28 in 2021 and 5th place and 71.94 points in 2023 .

Quite similar metamorphoses occurred with Kaori Sakamoto. And I won't argue with the fact that favoritism has always been there. It’s just that now this phenomenon looks quite strange - very average skaters are actively being made into “queens”, and their fans are seriously talking about fantastic performances.

4.5 points is hardly a huge difference, especially when we are talking about different panels of judges. And the difference in ranking is mostly because the Russians are banned now.

And cherrypicking just her results in the World Championship short program in 2021 and 2023 is misleading. Why not mention that she was second in the short of the 2022 European Championship, in front of Trusova and Scherbakova, and the score she got there is still her personal best? Or that she got higher overall and PCS score there than in the 2023 European Championship?

 

[DancingCactus]

Incidentally, I still think that 2022 short program was her best program, it showed that she can do more than stripper style programs. I really liked it.

 

[Alex Fedorov]

4.5 points is hardly a huge difference, especially when we are talking about different panels of judges. And the difference in ranking is mostly because the Russians are banned now.

And cherrypicking just her results in the World Championship short program in 2021 and 2023 is misleading. Why not mention that she was second in the short of the 2022 European Championship, in front of Trusova and Scherbakova, and the score she got there is still her personal best? Or that she got higher overall and PCS score there than in the 2023 European Championship?

1. A difference of 4.5 points for a short program is enough much. In addition, in 2023, thanks to changed rules, skaters on average began to get slightly fewer points than in 2021. That’s why Loena’s results look paradoxical - in 2021 she lost 3.65 points (-2.65 GOE and -1 for a fall), in 2023 3.95 points (-2.95 and -1 for a fall), the base value of content increased by 0.68 points over two years (due to the transfer of 3Lz+3T to the second half of the program), but she got 4.5 points more.

2. Your example with the short program at the 2022 European Championships is bad and good at the same time. This example is bad because at that time favoritism was already working towards Loena. The key moment was the Italian Grand Prix, when she beat Shcherbakova for the first time in the short program, and finished third at the end of the competition. It was after this that Loena began to be seen as the best European figure skater not from Russia and as a potential threat to those Russian figure skaters who made a mistake.

And your example is good, because in the same short program Anna Shcherbakova made a mistake completely similar to Loena’s mistake at the 2023 World Championships. Anna fell on the 3+3 cascade and lost -3.65 points directly on this (-2.65 GOE and -1 for the fall). As a result, Anna received 69.05 points for the short program. And if you now open a thread discussing this competition in the archive, you will immediately see how many people claim that Anna received too many points, that her PCS is outrageously overestimated - and so on. Favoritism also worked towards Anna then, and besides, the rules allowed the judges to be more generous - but she got at this program fewer points than Loena in 2023.

 

[Alex Fedorov]

Incidentally, I still think that 2022 short program was her best program, it showed that she can do more than stripper style programs. I really liked it.

If we talk about the sum of the two programs, then the best competition for Loena was the 2021 Italian Grand Prix. Two clean programs with the best quality of execution of all elements. Subsequently, she was never able to repeat this. Since the 2022-23 season, Lohena has made the short program a little more difficult, moving the 3+3 to the second half, but it doesn't work very well. She just doesn't have enough energy, it seems to me.

In general, over the last three seasons, Loena looks best at the very first tournament, then her results worsen.