2023 Four Continents Women's Short Program

[moonvine]

Have many thoughts after watching, but have to get myself to sleep as it's past 1 AM and work awaits in few hours.
Have to say though - Jocelyn Hong and Haein Lee's dresses were FABULOUS. My absolutely favourite palette of colors. Now debating which one to choose to pay respects to in a form if flower crown...
And saw @CoyoteChris so much on the stream , wondering if I saw any other GSer hehe

You probably saw @Seven Sisters

 

[bubblecherry]

IMO, Satoko had terrible jumps technically, but at least her jumps still aesthetically looked better than Isabeau. Yes Satoko had heavy prerotations and chronic underrotations, but at least she didn't bend down or slow down significantly before her jumps.

Someone could just as easily say “at least Isabeau gets into a great air position, with a bit of height, and typically rotates her jumps” and say that Isabeau’s jumps are better aesthetically, even if they both are lacking technically.

Just offering a different perspective here. It’s easy to overlook issues, if you like a skaters presentation and skating skills. Those issues may vary, but the concept is the same.

 

[lileychristie]

Just offering a different perspective here. It’s easy to overlook issues, if you like a skaters presentation and skating skills. Those issues may vary, but the concept is the same.

Which was exactly what my intention when I wrote that post

Indeed, both skaters have jump issues - I just find Satoko's less terrible to look at than Isabeau's. Aesthetic is a subjective thing, hence the IMO at the front of my post. I was just offering my perspective of what I find aesthetic in a jump, and your perspective is valid too.

 

[readernick]

Someone could just as easily say “at least Isabeau gets into a great air position, with a bit of height, and typically rotates her jumps” and say that Isabeau’s jumps are better aesthetically, even if they both are lacking technically.

Just offering a different perspective here. It’s easy to overlook issues, if you like a skaters presentation and skating skills. Those issues may vary, but the concept is the same.

Yes, for both skaters I just try to blink when they jump and then I enjoy the program. But, honestly Isabeau’s single edge jumps are actually quite nice. She gets nice height and has good flow. And, Satoko had nice flow into her 2A but never got good height on any jump. So, I think their jumps are equally bad but in different ways. But, my favorite skater is Shoma so I obviously never let technical issues determine who I like. Actually, Isabeau is not even close to being my women’s favorite skater here but I do think she is special and will continue to enjoy her skating

IMO, Satoko had terrible jumps technically, but at least her jumps still aesthetically looked better than Isabeau. Yes Satoko had heavy prerotations and chronic underrotations, but at least she didn't bend down or slow down significantly before her jumps. I love Isabeau's spins and attention to details too, but unfortunately looking at her jumps just ruin it for me. She does have consistency though, so good on her for that.

It is Mone who reminds me of Satoko, down to the multiple underrotations calls on her combo. But superb skating skills and top-notch sensitivity to music, which too often are not rewarded enough in their PCS.... Plus that last layback spin is very Satoko-esque hey

Mone doesn’t remind me of Satoko but she was underscored in PCS. Her SS are incredible and she should be rewarded for them but she doesn’t have the perfect upper and lower body control that characterize Satoko/ Isabeau. Also, despite her UR problems she doesn’t have what I would characterize as terrible jumps. They are much better than Satoko /Isabeau. It’s her inconsistency that holds her back not her jumps IMHO.

 

[CrazyKittenLady]

So the Cartwheel count: finally 1
where is @CrazyKittenLady ?

No Cartwheels, no CrazyKittenLady

 

[pesto]

I've known a couple of people who didn't watch skating on a regular basis, who loved Satoko's jumps when they did see it. They were fascinated that she could make so many revolutions while barely leaving the ice.

 

[chz]

Preference is always subjective, but I honestly don't understand why you would prefer Isabeau's jumps to anyone's here.

Exactly. It's mind blowing seeing people commented this. I can understand on her performance but the jumps are horrible. And the Goe for the jumps are too generous.

 

[SmileHappy34]

Great job all.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

I've known a couple of people who didn't watch skating on a regular basis, who loved Satoko's jumps when they did see it. They were fascinated that she could make so many revolutions while barely leaving the ice.

Satoko was like a hummingbird over the ice. She was very musical and lovely to watch. When they tried to muscle her up to help her jump higher, the interference never really worked for her. Satoko's skating was very instinctive. I think she would have made a gorgeous solo ice dancer, with no need for the jumps distraction. I agree with those who point out that the tech issues on jumps for Satoko vs Isabeau are vastly different. And there's the issue of them skating in very different eras too.

They each have exquisite aesthetic qualities, but I personally would never think to strictly compare these two at all because they are so uniquely different. Their tech issues on jumps are not the same at all. Isabeau gets great height. As she continues to mature, hopefully Isabeau will develop more power and speed, without losing her other special qualities. Hopefully, she'll also get the technical adjustment help she needs as her body changes. The difference between Isabeau and the rest of the field, seemingly, is her utter determination and her full belief and confidence in her abilities, which probably fuels her consistency! That's an extremely rare quality, worth its weight in gold.

I have found the pbp chat quite entertaining. In some cases, informative, others rib-tickling. Some comments are questionable, while others I have a different view, and many others I agree with. No time right now to say all I wanted to in response to the event and chat commentary. Suffice to say right now, it's going to be a battle in the fp, with the bunched scoring. Whoever has nerves of steel will prevail.

@mrrice, you need to do your research on 4CCs venues. The event has been held since 1999, and took place in Korea 7 times, with an 8th scheduled venue in Korea planned for 2025. It's only been held 3 times in Canada, and 6 times in the U.S., mostly in Colorado, but also in Salt Lake City and in Anaheim. Also, held only twice in Japan (Osaka), but four times in Taipei, and once in China, with another time set for Shanghai next year. Look it up on Wiki.

Sadly, the first time 4CCs would have taken place in Australia, in 2021, had to be cancelled due to pandemic after-effects. And it has not yet been rescheduled to take place in Australia. It would be nice to see it happen in New Zealand, and in Mexico too in future. It's surely about numerous logistics, including venue availability, security and travel concerns, always.

 

[mskater93]

Yes. Deniss Vasiljevs did both in 2016.

Ilya did last season, too

 

[icewhite]

The problem most likely is not that it happens in the US, but that it happens in Colorado Springs. There might be other places in the US which are easier accessible for more people. Often the ticket prices in figure skating are also simply insane, with no awareness (or care) that this is a niche sport, not a night with Jennifer Lawrence.

 

[JimR]

That's just bizarre how Levito's underrotation on the toe loop wasn't called. The GOE on her jumps. I don't know what to say really. The ISU is a lot less strict that how some national federations judge skating.

Such a small crowd. Short program for Europeans was the same. Is it the economy, or people just not interested in that line up?

 

[JimR]

I dont understand the hype around Isabeau. Is she any better than the new Koreans or Japanese? Nope. Its just that the Americans are hyped about a new skater they can hype around until they hype her up too much and end up like Gracie or Alysa. Also her jumps are quite frankly not pleasant to look at. She takes off literally as horizontal as an ironing board.

No, not better than the Korean girls they were in general the strongest skaters, but will have to at their best for the free skate. I don't think judges will let them get away with a blatant underrotation for example. It's not that Korean skaters are judged unfairly, but they are never, ever overscored.

Levito seems like a nice girl, but she is very young only 15. It's a lot of pressure they are putting on her and with jump technique I get afraid of injury. Fingers crossed she doesn't end up burned out emotionally and physically at 16 like another American skater. I think it would be better to nurse her until she has a stronger body, but I guess this is the US federation's call they want the medal now.

Good luck to Levito and all the girls in the free skate.

 

[JimR]

This is the landing on the toeloop. Four judges gave this combo a 2. Extraordinary.

 

[4everchan]

Catching up with the women.

4CC is the contest that throws away a LOT of World Standing points to whoever shows up. This is no exception. Given that all will go through to the Free skate means a lot of WS points is to be had just to be here.

That said, the last two groups were kinda good (with a few exceptions). I really liked Chaeyeon Kim. I hope she and her teammates sweep the podium. It's unlikely though as they are in the US.

I'd argue that in the Women discipline, Euros are much less deep (even in normal times) and WS points are given there just as much if not more.

 

[moonvine]

That's just bizarre how Levito's underrotation on the toe loop wasn't called. The GOE on her jumps. I don't know what to say really. The ISU is a lot less strict that how some national federations judge skating.

Such a small crowd. Short program for Europeans was the same. Is it the economy, or people just not interested in that line up?

In my case it’s inaccessibility and closeness to US Nats.

 

[preciosafrank]

Sofia Frank? There's no free cut (only 23 competitors) so you'll get to see your daughter

Sofia is still recovering from the flu. She pushed really hard to finish her short. She still can’t jump and getting Shortness of breath:-(

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

The problem most likely is not that it happens in the US, but that it happens in Colorado Springs. There might be other places in the US which are easier accessible for more people. Often the ticket prices in figure skating are also simply insane, with no awareness (or care) that this is a niche sport, not a night with Jennifer Lawrence.

Excuse me? Is your 'Jennifer Lawrence' reference about going to the movies? What a strange reference to something not so niche but more commonplace. Your reference doesn't make much sense in terms of ticket prices, because movie ticket prices are sky high fwiw. Plus, movie theatres are struggling to survive in the era of multiple streaming options in the comfort of home. Those who can afford the luxury, have home theaters with large screens.

Back to figure skating. Of course fs is a niche sport with humongous problems that simply are not being addressed by those in power, which again, is nothing new for figure skating. Why do you reference the event being in the U.S. as some kind of problem in any capacity??

4CCs has taken place in Asia a total of 14 times, with 7 of those times in Korea. Meanwhile, only 3 times in Canada, and 6 times in the U.S., with four of those times in Colorado Springs. Please realize that CS is the sport's state-of-the-art Olympic Center facility in the U.S. Some people complain about the altitude. However, the facility was likely intentionally built at high altitude in CS, to help athletes build endurance.

It's important to understand that venues are selected for many reasons, mostly having to due with facility requirements, availability, security, considerations related to travel, and even political stability in the chosen region. It would be nice to see 4CCs held in The Philippines, but there are probably a lack of facility needs and requirements, in addition to political stability concerns. New Zealand as well would be a welcome venue, but is there a modern facility available? In addition, what about travel and weather conditions? Since Osaka was the venue only twice, Japan fed probably doesn't prioritize bidding on 4CCs, but focus more on landing Worlds and Olympics.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

That's just bizarre how Levito's underrotation on the toe loop wasn't called.

There's nothing bizarre about it. Granted the landing looked on second jump of combo looked close and questionable, but the tech panel may not have overly scrutinized since Isabeau generally does not have a history of URs.

In any case, they found something to deduct and Yelim is in first place. I had predicted for JunHwan Cha and Yelim Kim to win, but I'm not sure that's going to happen now, what with Cha popping an important jump.

 

[lariko]

I really liked the competition. Heh, like with men, I was most impressed by number 3. Every time C. Kim comes on ice this season, I just love her energy and powerful skating and those flowing jumps. Great skater! Also, was good to see Tennell in fighting shape again.