2023 Grand Prix Espoo Free Dance | Page 11 | Golden Skate

2023 Grand Prix Espoo Free Dance

rain

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 29, 2003
First, I thought a couple of lower ranked teams here were wonderful.

This was the second time seeing the FD of Jennifer JANSE van RENSBURG / Benjamin STEFFAN and I liked it even more this time. I find tangos mostly a miss, but this one is great. The choreography is interesting and it was well-performed.

I also like Bashynska/Beaumont a lot. Romeo and Juliet is not the most original choice that could have been made, but again the choreography was great and this young team has loads of potential. Beautiful lines and expression and they're well-matched. Nice to see that Carol Lane has another team coming up below Piper and Paul who could play for all the marbles in the future.
 

rain

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 29, 2003
This competition was very interesting for me. I very much enjoyed Zingas/Kolesnik and Careira/Ponomarenko.

It was the first time I'd seen Turkkila/Versluis this season. Their dance is an almost, for me. Lots of really cool stuff. The first lift combo is the highlight of the whole program in my opinion. While there are many interesting moments and elements, some of the arm work is not precise enough yet and gets muddy. Also, there are parts where it seems the theme is dropped and it reverts to kind of ho-hum generic ice dance. So it doesn't quite totally hold together, at least not yet, for me.

Fournier-Beaudry/Sorensen almost have the opposite problem. I wish I could say I loved this program, because I love this team, but I don't. There's nothing in the choreography that makes you go "wow"! They are excellent skaters, especially her, and deserve their scores and placement due to their quality, but I feel like this material lets them down a bit.

Chock/Bates - I liked this a lot less the second time around. A lot less. I hate the dreary, droning Pink Floyd. The dance was slow. All of the awkward looking parts are still awkward looking and I'm less forgiving at this point in the season. There is way too much standing around and posing with him lifting her as they are almost or totally at a standstill as she contorts herself. There's not enough skating. It almost looks like it's too hard for them. Compared to the two previous teams who both demonstrated incredible speed and flow this was not it. I would have had it third, here.
 

4everchan

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 7, 2015
Country
Martinique
Fournier-Beaudry/Sorensen almost have the opposite problem. I wish I could say I loved this program, because I love this team, but I don't. There's nothing in the choreography that makes you go "wow"! They are excellent skaters, especially her, and deserve their scores and placement due to their quality, but I feel like this material lets them down a bit.
I thought it was useful that Mark mentioned their theme : modern approach to NDP : Esmeralda is dead but returns to life... So the beginning starts with LoLo as a dead Esmeralda and with the prayer (Ave Maria) she is brought back ... or at least, that's what I understood and then, listening to the lyrics and going through with the team, I was getting into it more and more and more.
I agree with you that there could be some improvements in the choreography as it is a bit generic, though well done and well executed. At the same time, I have the feeling that this could be a huge hit at worlds in Montreal. It will make sense to the crowd there for sure.
There are a few wow moments : the lift where she is holding to his neck is quite impressive ! The choreo characteristic step is really on with the music (Les sans-papiers) . Here are the lyrics
Nous sommes des étrangers
Des sans-papiers
Des hommes et des femmes
Sans domicile
Oh! Notre-Dame et nous te demandons
Asile! Asile!

*my translation
We are foreigners
Without papers
Men and women
Without a home
Oh! Notre-Dame, we ask you
Asylum ! Asylum.
 

SmileHappy34

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 20, 2022
As I previously stated in women's, did c/B really win free dance ? According to skating scores the Canadian Team has the favored judges placement of 1st 6-3 in the Canadian teams favor.

The scores is so close that even if C/B came in 2ndvin the free dance. They still will win.
The free dance is 123.85 to 123.80.
So what difference did it make if C/B came in 2nd and fb/s came in 1st in free dance c/ b admit to mistakes . They had about a 3 point lead in short dance that a ..05 wouldn't made a difference in overall medals.
 

Rebecca Moose

toots
On the Ice
Joined
Oct 6, 2023
Country
United-States
I thought it was useful that Mark mentioned their theme : modern approach to NDP : Esmeralda is dead but returns to life... So the beginning starts with LoLo as a dead Esmeralda and with the prayer (Ave Maria) she is brought back ... or at least, that's what I understood and then, listening to the lyrics and going through with the team, I was getting into it more and more and more.
the problem here is the program should still be effective without Mark giving us cliff notes of the concept beforehand.
 

4everchan

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 7, 2015
Country
Martinique
the problem here is the program should still be effective without Mark giving us cliff notes of the concept beforehand.
Sure, in theory.. But how is everyone's program being conveyed without any mention... Would you know that Madison is representing time or that her dress is inspired by Dali's melting clock? Had you heard about Wuthering Heights's soundtrack before (I certainly had not) and would you know that Piper and Paul are not really doing the story itself but have a theme about love and hate coming from the same place... or even Romeo and Juliet from BBs... Only those who know the piece (yay me, I do) would understand what they are doing... So in some ways, all the teams and commentators have some ice dancesplaining to do, unless they skate to something that is completely abstract or absolutely universally literal... Even Swan Lake/Black Swan may escape those not aware of the musical context.

When comparing the RD and the FD, this is a major difference between both segments. In the RD, we all know about the theme and the imposed rhythmic content... the teams usually do not have the time to convey a story... unless they are doing Thriller and then (almost) everyone gets it... :) but in the FD, where there is more freedom, unless one is doing a tango (another one), this information is quite important. It is shared not only by commentators but also conveyed in fluff pieces. Ahead of Nationals for instance, or at the beginning of the season, pretty much every team discussed the theme of their programs... even in pairs. So the information is out there and if people complain that a program doesn't make sense, maybe sharing the concept of it will allow fans to enjoy it more... Apparently story-telling is a major factor in ice dance... so to make it fair for every team, things should be explained clearly.

BTW : I didn't know about the theme other than it being NDP before and I liked their dance. Knowing the theme now allows me to appreciate some subtle choreographic moves better.

The other option is to skate to some very popular film and do some skipping and punching, even push ups :) I prefer some ice dancesplaining than having to rely on these easy tricks...
 
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brushalley

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 22, 2014
Country
United-Kingdom
I have not had a chance to watch any of this, but the scores😲

Suddenly Piper and Paul's outing last week is looking pretty darn strong, and LaLa is looking spectacular! We'll know better once they're all head to head, and hopefully without any major errors, but so far, it looks like LaLa could seriously challenge FB/S for Canadian silver this season.
Are CFSF going to go all out for LaLa ?I'm thinking of the age difference .FB/S are a lot older LL are the future.Will C/B FB/S G/P G/F all stay on for olympics?
 

4everchan

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 7, 2015
Country
Martinique
Are CFSF going to go all out for LaLa ?I'm thinking of the age difference .FB/S are a lot older LL are the future.Will C/B FB/S G/P G/F all stay on for olympics?
FBS and Piper and Paul are pretty much on a one season at a time basis. I was even surprised to see Piper and Paul coming back this year. FBS had mentioned they were going to skate at home worlds and that they would do it year by year from now on.
I have no idea about CB but they are up there in age as well. No idea about Guignard Fabbri but the O games are in Milano and they would have chances for not only the dance medal but the team event.
LaLa are a huge talent. They will get up there no matter what happens with these teams.
 

Sackie

Medalist
Joined
Jan 4, 2007
I too was surprised that Piper and Paul came back cause I think after last year's worlds it is obvious they are not really in the running for the World title. Think if FBS do not see improvement in their world ranking this year they may be done, esp if they move behind LaLa. Not surprised that CB are still going for it. Why quit when you know that no matter how you skate you will and can win. Can only see them quitting if the FRA return.
 

rain

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 29, 2003
Are CFSF going to go all out for LaLa ?I'm thinking of the age difference .FB/S are a lot older LL are the future.Will C/B FB/S G/P G/F all stay on for olympics?
I don't think they'll go all out this season, but it's getting closer. I think, barring a large error from another team, LaLa will be 6th at the grand prix final. But it will be very interesting to see their scores, and how close they can pull to FB/S and the Brits.
FBS and Piper and Paul are pretty much on a one season at a time basis. I was even surprised to see Piper and Paul coming back this year. FBS had mentioned they were going to skate at home worlds and that they would do it year by year from now on.
I have no idea about CB but they are up there in age as well. No idea about Guignard Fabbri but the O games are in Milano and they would have chances for not only the dance medal but the team event.
LaLa are a huge talent. They will get up there no matter what happens with these teams.
I could see Piper and Paul retiring if they win worlds, but then again I could also see them decide to hang in until the next Olympics, buoyed by the medal. Chock/Bates have their world title now, so, again, I could see them go either way. Of the three I think Guignard/Fabri are the most locked in to staying until the next Olympics because it will be at home. Especially if the other two retire. Should Piper and Paul and C/B retire I see Fournier-Beaudry/Sorensen moving up to the medals immediately, so they would definitely stick around in that scenario. I think they'd really like a Canadian title and a world medal.

I really don't see either of Piper and Paul or Chock and Bates sticking around if Papadakis/Cizeron decide to take a swing at another Olympic title.

On the other hand LaLa are definitely in it for the next several Olympics, regardless of who stays and who goes. I think this season the judges are starting to put them in the top echelon of teams, and they keep improving.
 

4everchan

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 7, 2015
Country
Martinique
I don't think they'll go all out this season, but it's getting closer. I think, barring a large error from another team, LaLa will be 6th at the grand prix final. But it will be very interesting to see their scores, and how close they can pull to FB/S and the Brits.

I could see Piper and Paul retiring if they win worlds, but then again I could also see them decide to hang in until the next Olympics, buoyed by the medal. Chock/Bates have their world title now, so, again, I could see them go either way. Of the three I think Guignard/Fabri are the most locked in to staying until the next Olympics because it will be at home. Especially if the other two retire. Should Piper and Paul and C/B retire I see Fournier-Beaudry/Sorensen moving up to the medals immediately, so they would definitely stick around in that scenario. I think they'd really like a Canadian title and a world medal.

I really don't see either of Piper and Paul or Chock and Bates sticking around if Papadakis/Cizeron decide to take a swing at another Olympic title.

On the other hand LaLa are definitely in it for the next several Olympics, regardless of who stays and who goes. I think this season the judges are starting to put them in the top echelon of teams, and they keep improving.
yup to all this. FBS do have a national title already however ;) so that's one done ✅
 
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