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I agree with everything you wrote here. It is so broad as to be meaningless. it Is already being done. It just creates basically a second free dance.
2024-25 Rhythm Dance theme
- Thread starter figureskatingandrainbows
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Wait a minute, the tweet got deleted.
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A gimmick is an unusual and unnecessary feature or action whose purpose is to attract attention or publicity. some examples would be hats, props, costume changes that seek to influence the presentation but not in a judgeable way. Should we give points for use of a gimmick?
The Duchesnays tried this for a Charleston OSP at 1989 Worlds with the use of a hat which they went on to drop during the performance. It was a dismal failure.
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Good examples without props…Toller Cranston is the commentator btw
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The Original Set Pattern dance allowed each team to pick their Charleston music, create their own original dance that repeated three times with steps they chose.
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I agree with many of the posters here who are stating that the potential movie theme is too vague.
If the ISU wants to use a generic theme, then why not use "TV shows" or "video games?" Both of these media are arguably more popular in this day and age than movies and there's a lot more untapped creative potential in them...
If the ISU wants to use a generic theme, then why not use "TV shows" or "video games?" Both of these media are arguably more popular in this day and age than movies and there's a lot more untapped creative potential in them...
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Using movie themes or tv shows might also invite even more copyright problems
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Entertaining and fun doesn't need to be gimmicky and gimmicky doesn't equate necessarily to entertaining and fun...
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yes that’s why I added the other three dances which were all better SKATED and just as entertaining
For most of the history of the Compulsory Dances in international competition, the ISU provided the music. So the same two or three pieces would be rotated throughout the competition. The skaters didn't choose the music.
And of course they all had to do the same steps and there was only narrow range for individuality in the upper body movements.
The only real place for choreography/creativity was in the opening pose/intro steps and the exit after the end of the pattern. And those parts weren't officially judged.
If you're talking about pattern dances in the last several years when teams were allowed to choose their own music, then you do have a point.
In both the recent skaters' choice pattern dances and in the Original Set Pattern/Original Dance/Short Dance/Rhythm Dance, whatever it was called at the time, there was always a tension between wanting to stand out by doing something creative and unique, and wanting to perform a quintessential version of the prescribed dance, so judges would think "Yes! They really got the essence of what this dance is all about on the dance floor and translated it faithfully to the ice."
Clearly, the ISU is now leaning more toward encouraging the former approach and not so much the latter.
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It's just that the rhythm dance is about a specific rythmn and at least basic requirements connected to that that arethe same for everyone. If the rhythm is waltz (or whatever) then dancers can be judged on how good they performs steps fitting into this rhythm. On top of that, they can choose interesting interpretations of waltz. They can even use waltzes from movies and video games. I think that makes a restricted rhythm dance interesting (apart from judging the technical asecets, patterns etc): To work within a relatively narrow framework and still come up with something unique. That's what makes it different from the FD.
That's why for the last three to four years the theme was just too vague. The one during Olympic season basically allowed for everything but hardrock and straight-up classical. It was so broad it was boring. I thought KanaDai and P/C were the only ones doing it even remotely right.
Also, ad hominem arguments like "you guys are boring and don't have a sense of humor" are not exactly productive.
That's why for the last three to four years the theme was just too vague. The one during Olympic season basically allowed for everything but hardrock and straight-up classical. It was so broad it was boring. I thought KanaDai and P/C were the only ones doing it even remotely right.
Also, ad hominem arguments like "you guys are boring and don't have a sense of humor" are not exactly productive.
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I agree! I would like to see the Rhythm Dance embrace more of the technical elements of a given dance rather than be thematic. This would certainly be good news to Frear/ Gibson and others who thrive on up-beat showmanship!The ISU needs to stop with these broad, crap themes and get back to traditional themes with Rhythm for the RD, what a concept that would be!?!
The ISU needs to stop with these broad, crap themes and get back to traditional themes with Rhythm for the RD, what a concept that would be!?!
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I think they are leaning more to the OSP/OD than the Compulsories.
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I think the right blend was used with the OD Samba from 2000 Worlds
Susie Wynne explains how the dance is put together. BTW doesn’t Isabeau sort of remind you of Jamie Silverstein?
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Susie Wynne explains how the dance is put together. BTW doesn’t Isabeau sort of remind you of Jamie Silverstein?
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Sorry everyone, I am not trying to push anything. I just have a lot to say having watched a lot of ice dance over the years and just wanted to share/illustrate what I mean with examples of how different things were tried. I thought the programs I chose were well done technically while also entertaining. The entire events are in the Rewatches should you want more. The 2000 Worlds featured Anissina & Peizerat, Dubreuil/Lauzon, Fusar-Poli/Margaglio and Lobacheva/Averbukh.
now off to sleep for me…
now off to sleep for me…
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- Jun 21, 2003
The whole idea of a "theme" tpgether with a specified rhythm is sort of strange, to me.
Competitive ice dance throughout its history has faced one elephant-in-the-room question. It's fun. It's entertaining. But is it sport? (Ballroom faces the same question.) If it is a sport, then the technical athletic skills that are on display muist be clearly and precisely detailed, along with judging criteria for deciding which competitors did it best. I actually think that the ISU does a good job in this respect, but it is a hard sell to the larger sports audience.
If the theme is music videos of the 80s and a team chooses Thriller, that piece comes already choreographed. Now throw in the required rhythms, say the tango and the Finnstep. So the couples do the iconic zombie walk in the style of a tango and then in the style of a Finnstep? That, to me, is could itself be called a "gimmick."
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Competitive ice dance throughout its history has faced one elephant-in-the-room question. It's fun. It's entertaining. But is it sport? (Ballroom faces the same question.) If it is a sport, then the technical athletic skills that are on display muist be clearly and precisely detailed, along with judging criteria for deciding which competitors did it best. I actually think that the ISU does a good job in this respect, but it is a hard sell to the larger sports audience.
If the theme is music videos of the 80s and a team chooses Thriller, that piece comes already choreographed. Now throw in the required rhythms, say the tango and the Finnstep. So the couples do the iconic zombie walk in the style of a tango and then in the style of a Finnstep? That, to me, is could itself be called a "gimmick."
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If they go for video games, I bet everybody that will end up skating to "Korobeiniki"!
Specifically this version:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3ZiVn5L9vM
CaroLiza_fan
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- Oct 25, 2012
Aha! That explains a lot.
I thought the choreographers just couldn't think of many pieces that fitted the specified pattern. I didn't realise that there was actually a (very) small selection of music that they had to choose from
Then again, it was only in the year or two before the Vancouver Olympics that I started watching Ice Dance. And the reason I didn't watch it before was because whenever I dipped in before, I found the CD segments boring! And I was delighted when they were got rid of.
But, I was young and foolish then. Now, I appreciate them more. Especially after watching the Pattern Dance segments that the Novice Dancers currently do.
Thank you as ever for correcting me.
CaroLiza_fan
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- Jan 17, 2022
I still find the compulsory dance rather boring. That's why a think a stricter rhythm and patterns in the RD would be better than going back to everyone doing the same thing for hours and hours.
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Batmaaaan nah nah nah nah
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You haven't lived until you've watched 24 ice dance teams do the same steps to the same music over and over and over and over
I believe in promoting, polishing and rewarding blade to ice skills. But reinstating CDs, for me, are not the way....
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No. That is not how it works. And your example of "Thriller" which is being used this year was not pre-choreographed based on music video; though the team using it did creatively use some of the movement and made it their own.The whole idea of a "theme" tpgether with a specified rhythm is sort of strange, to me.
Competitive ice dance throughout its history has faced one elephant-in-the-room question. It's fun. It's entertaining. But is it sport? (Ballroom faces the same question.) If it is a sport, then the technical athletic skills that are on display muist be clearly and precisely detailed, along with judging criteria for deciding which competitors did it best. I actually think that the ISU does a good job in this respect, but it is a hard sell to the larger sports audience.
If the theme is music videos of the 80s and a team chooses Thriller, that piece comes already choreographed. Now throw in the required rhythms, say the tango and the Finnstep. So the couples do the iconic zombie walk in the style of a tango and then in the style of a Finnstep? That, to me, is could itself be called a "gimmick."
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You're not going to have dances (unless it's like a broadly described latin rhythm/multiple latin rhythms for example) in two different styles in the same RD or whatever it would be. You're not going to be doing finnstep and tango in the same non FD dance pretty much ever.
And questioning if ice dancers are athletes is just absurd. They train just as hard as any other sport and there are lifts, holds etc (many which use propel-like movements).
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