2024 Worlds: Men's thoughts and comments
- Thread starter gsk8
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I enjoyed the competition a lot overall and had plenty to say in those threads.
I don't mind the back flip at all. I mind that Adam and Benoit are acting like they're doing something special and innovative. That backflip was mid. Nothing special about it. Surya and others have put him to shame. If you're making a case about an element--at least do it well. His other move in the choreo sequence was way more impressive. As I can deduce from their programs together Benoit and Adam overthink things. A whole bunch of story and miming to make a simple point.
Btw, I enjoy Adam's skating. They just need to knock it off with pretending that the stuff they do is at all revolutionary.
I don't mind the back flip at all. I mind that Adam and Benoit are acting like they're doing something special and innovative. That backflip was mid. Nothing special about it. Surya and others have put him to shame. If you're making a case about an element--at least do it well. His other move in the choreo sequence was way more impressive. As I can deduce from their programs together Benoit and Adam overthink things. A whole bunch of story and miming to make a simple point.
Btw, I enjoy Adam's skating. They just need to knock it off with pretending that the stuff they do is at all revolutionary.
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2015
I think some of the miming could go 
I enjoy Adam's programs. I think I would enjoy Adam with someone else's choreo as well 
and I agree that back flips are definitely not new.. I mean, it is a cool move for me, the first time I watched skating as a kid at 1988 Olympics LOL
So yeah... not so sure what their point is.
Honest question : if the backflip, as @Mathman says is considered acrobatics and has nothing to do with skating, why is the Arabian jump Adam does or Ilia's Raspberry twist considered something else and thus, legal moves? To me, they all look like super cool acrobatics, and i don't see why one is illegal and the others not.
I also question the "danger" element. I would imagine that elements with twisting components much more difficult to control/save if anything went wrong...
Here is the first back flip I have seen as a skater fan. Yup.. That is indeed Brian Orser
I enjoy Adam's programs. I think I would enjoy Adam with someone else's choreo as well and I agree that back flips are definitely not new.. I mean, it is a cool move for me, the first time I watched skating as a kid at 1988 Olympics LOLSo yeah... not so sure what their point is.
Honest question : if the backflip, as @Mathman says is considered acrobatics and has nothing to do with skating, why is the Arabian jump Adam does or Ilia's Raspberry twist considered something else and thus, legal moves? To me, they all look like super cool acrobatics, and i don't see why one is illegal and the others not.
I also question the "danger" element. I would imagine that elements with twisting components much more difficult to control/save if anything went wrong...
Here is the first back flip I have seen as a skater fan. Yup.. That is indeed Brian Orser
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- Joined
- Dec 7, 2022
Richaud is a great choreographer, but he's also a good self promoter. Personally I don't care about the backflip. I think there is no need for this fuss or attention for one specific element - also in general I never care much about single elements, for me it's always about the whole - okay, maybe I have a certain weakness for cantilevers, but in general what matters most to me is that elements make sense in that specific moment in the choreo with the music and have a purpose in the greater plot.
All the backflip boys remind me a lot of the hockey boys at the rink, showing off, stopping extra loudly with a huge wave of ice or spread eagling through the rink - it feels many male skaters need to show they are not just delicate dancers but really cool - well, whatever. And doing it in competition when it is "illegal" is trying to be extra cool and getting attention.
Apparently it works, but I guess it will wane off soon because so many are doing it now.
Overall I love the work of Richaud and Adam together. If you take away the backflip and the slightly self-absorbed stuff harmonious, interesting, musical programs remain.
- Joined
- Jun 26, 2012
I think the backflip should be part of the pairs programme. Let the man do the flip over the woman (or the other man as would be allowed in Canada, and Keegan does it in his shows already). Finally something more that lifting strength and SBS jumps and spins for the man to do!
And, please, please, don't take me seriously on this!
And, please, please, don't take me seriously on this!
- Joined
- Jan 29, 2007
I would pick as my highlights Donovan, who said if I heard right when he saw his FS scores "that's insane" if I heard right and that was because he did not expect 150+ and Aleksandr, who played safe, did not go to quad (I think he usually jumps one 4T), was almost clean and was close to earn another spot to Estonia and of course clean Lukas, whose big fan I have been since I saw him live at Euros 23.
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- Sep 23, 2020
Well, like it or not, it seems to sum up Malinin's PR potential in the view of hopes he might make figure skating popular again....
The general public cannot tell one jump from another and seem not to care much for what jump or combination of jumps is being performed. OTOH, everyone knows what a backflip is ....
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I had no illusions regarding Malinin's PR potential. I still remember how Nathan Chen's PR went
Oh, and Evan Lysacek's PR before that.
When it comes to the stunts, the general public wants a rebel. An image of a child who's being trained by adults to spin in the air since 3 y.o. simply does not fall within this category. Wearing glitter falls within it even less. Although we could argue about glitter
You just made me remember Blades of Glory, the movie
137K views · 5.5K reactions | Happy Birthday to Olympic Champion Robin Cousins. Here is Cousin's "Satan Takes a Holiday" | Ice Theatre of New York, Inc.
Happy Birthday to Olympic Champion Robin Cousins. Here is Cousin's "Satan Takes a Holiday"
www.facebook.com
He did attempt it in competition, and some people think he should have gotten credit for landing the first clean one in competition. But it did not go into the record book because he touched the ice with the free foot on the landing.
Actually, Ilia is on Good Morning America today, and he's on their Times Square billboard. See interview/segment here:
www.goodmorningamerica.com
I've seen people reblog his FS video from other accounts I follow that have nothing to do with figure skating. This is probably as much media impact as one can hope for outside the Olympics.
If people want a rebel, they should post his gala exhibition somewhere.
Ilia Malinin talks history-making victory after winning 1st World Figure Skating title
Ilia Malinin, 19, opens up about his history making-victory after winning his first world title.
www.goodmorningamerica.com
I've seen people reblog his FS video from other accounts I follow that have nothing to do with figure skating. This is probably as much media impact as one can hope for outside the Olympics.
If people want a rebel, they should post his gala exhibition somewhere.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
As I recall the argument back then was that a back flip is not a skating move because the skater does not land on an edge, but rather comes down plop on both feet. Surya Bonaly took the wind out of the ISU's sails when she perfected the edge landing and even followed it up with a triple Salchow in combination.
I have to say that I will have to get used to the raspberry twist. The first time I saw it I thought, "Oh no, he messed up his flying whachamacallit," I had the same reaction to the +euler sequence -- it just looked like a mistake. And in fact, Patrick Chan was the first skater who figured out how to make it look like he was doing it on purpose. Or maybe I just became more accustomed to it.
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- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
Thee ISU was really strict on double-footed landings in those days. I remember Michael Weiss trying and trying and trying to do the first ratified quad Lutz, but he always brushed the ice on the landing. Under IJS scoring this does not seem to be such a terrible sin any more.
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2015
i don't think the arabian nor the raspberry twist land on an edge
and yes, i recall the argument with surya... and she learned how to land it one one foot and i loved it in combo with the 3s... talk about a cool transitionlol... it is whack ! i love it though.
yeah... very few skaters can do the euler beautifully.... but i don't think judges penalize for ugly eulers
If the snowball keeps moving, maybe some rebels will.
It could be complicated because of TV rights (I faced these issues when I looked for videos for the best exhibition thread) but it deserves at least a chance to go viral.
I think some of the miming could go
So yeah... not so sure what their point is.
Their point has repeatedly been crystal clear in all interviews and has nothing to do with just a back flip. Thankfully there are people calling events like Mark Hanretty who tell viewers the point is they want the ISU to give skaters more freedom and choices for creativity. Period. It really is that simple.
Thanks for pointing out the obvious that a few seem to enjoy ignoring. I don't want to see people police the programs of skaters feigning concern for children who already engage in all types of jumps and maneuvers on their own, having never seen skating to begin with. Skateboarding, snowboarding, freestyle skiing w/ aerials and surfing make skating look as dangerous as changing a diaper.
On a side note, I have an axe to grind with NBC Sports/Peacock and the ISU geoblocking. I have less than 12 hours to rewatch the men's event and then it will be removed.
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- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
Don't mind me, I am just being grouchy.
My only gripe about jumps is when a skater treats his jump card as an obstacle course to suffered through come hell or high water. Jumps that serve a choreographic purpose and support the musical structure = great skating. (Although it is not clear to me what a triple Axel done in symphonic style would look like compared to a folk music 3A.)
Hanyu mastered the technique of making each element, however spectaular as an individual feat of athleticism, seem effortless, inevitable (yet beyond expectation) within the context of the program.
Actually, I liked Malinin's program. The choreographic theme was "Me doing six quads." (even as the theme of Michelle Kwan's masterpiece Lyra Angelic as performed at 1998 U.S. Nationals was, "Me skating.") Malinin was true to the theme throughout, and the music helped rather than hindered. No complaints here.
He was my fav skater in competition for that reason. Yuzu was on camera at his computer when he said "what's the point of skating if you're not going to time it to the music?" I nearly fell over hearing that come out of his mouth. Music to my ears. I still marvel at his ability to do a back counter triple axel and land it right on the music. He will always have my respect for how he skated in competition.
The theme is, "Me doing 6 quads"? Just so you know, I'm sitting he laughing. As some of us mentioned in the men's free skate thread, just because someone is doing a bunch of quads doesn't mean you elevate their PCS. If the judges would keep his PCS where it has been ( FS score in the 80's) and not elevate it to the level of those who actually do have superior skating skills (PCS in the 90's), then I will have no gripe whatsoever. Ilia is free to game the system with quads since there is nothing to stop him. But leave the PCS alone since his score has no business being anywhere near 90 in a FS.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
At least it is on one foot (sort of up on the toe pick in this example).
Arigato said:
It is hard to see what their marketing strategy is. I understand that commercial enterprizes do not want to give away for free what they are trying to sell. But do they really believe that fans will flock to sign up for peacock because they can't access the videos afterard? A rising tide floats all boats. It would seem more profitable to do everything they can to increase the popularity of fingure skating in general, then line up for their slicet of the bigger pie.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
I can sort of understand the ISU's reasoning, though. Jumps are part of the program. If ypu do great jumps, that contributes to the quality of the overall program. Great jumps require and demonstrate good skating skills. Well-presented jumps affect overall presentation and audience appeal. As for choreography -- I don't knpw -- why isn't "Me skating" just as valid a theme as, say, Schindler's List or Swan Lake?
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2023
First of all, congratulations to the medalists!
Ilia's skate was mind-blowing to watch in regards to his technical prowess. Congratulations on the new world record! Yuma was the most all-around skater of the event, his jumps and flow are simply gorgeous. Kudos to Adam for climbing from 19th to 3rd and getting a medal, although the backflip was a bit excessive in my opinion.
Shoma's SP was simply sublime. It was obvious he had worked on those jump landings and they looked great. He rightfully takes home the small gold medal for the short. The FP didn't quite go as planned but Shoma showed that he is a real fighter and a class act, cheering on and applauding his competitors. I was worried about him a bit but his gala program skated with great energy and commitment calmed my mind
Aleksandr did well considering all the pressure of coming to the Worlds as the fresh European silver. He had a remarkable season with several Challenger medals as well as a European medal. I'm sure there is more to come!
Ilia's skate was mind-blowing to watch in regards to his technical prowess. Congratulations on the new world record! Yuma was the most all-around skater of the event, his jumps and flow are simply gorgeous. Kudos to Adam for climbing from 19th to 3rd and getting a medal, although the backflip was a bit excessive in my opinion.
Shoma's SP was simply sublime. It was obvious he had worked on those jump landings and they looked great. He rightfully takes home the small gold medal for the short. The FP didn't quite go as planned but Shoma showed that he is a real fighter and a class act, cheering on and applauding his competitors. I was worried about him a bit but his gala program skated with great energy and commitment calmed my mind
Aleksandr did well considering all the pressure of coming to the Worlds as the fresh European silver. He had a remarkable season with several Challenger medals as well as a European medal. I'm sure there is more to come!
