2024 Worlds: Men's thoughts and comments

[el henry]

My concern for children is not feigned. Us old folks from Southwest Philly tend to mean what we say and say what we mean. Children should not be jumping certain jumps prior to a certain age, based on my concern for their health. What difference does it make if other children engage in other dangerous activities? I don't watch those sports, let the people who watch them look out for those athletes.

To bring this back to backflips (see what I did there, teehee), personally I don't care if they are legal or illegal. I saw Terry Kubicka do a legal backflip at the Olys (not there, unfortunately). Not mind altering for me. Since it's not an element I particularly care about, I'll go with whatever the ISU says. But IMO Adam SHF is not striking some great blow for freedom by doing a backflip, he's just being a teenage kid. Ho hum. That kind of bravado comes and goes,

I do love his quirky programs and the Benoit choreo that works for him and he commits to, and I was glad to see his redemption.

 

[Skater Boy]

Brace yourselves, as this going to be a long one. It took nearly 6 hours to watch the men's short but it was definitely worth it. I enjoyed watching even the men in the beginning, with some nice surprises. Too bad for some who had quite good skates, but when there's 40 competing, there are always going to be 16 not continuing in the FS. But, what a pity to not see Ivan Shmuratko again (his skates always know how to move people), or Valtter, Jari and Maurizio. Or Davide, who really is showing promise (I always felt him to be rather bland, but not this night). What a shame for Adam Hagara (I think the season was just too long with the combination of jrs and srs), for Boyang Jin who had the worst skate of his life (Brian really felt for him. I heard him say: "are you allright?"). Highlights for me were Luc (who did contine), Donovan (who skated well) and Jari in that group. I felt sorry for Adam, but as he turned it around two days later, those feelings left me soon enough. Good to see Roman demonstrating he's still got it, as always enjoying Dennis and Jason. Shoma had a dream short, Yuma is always a delight, and Ilia showed me he can do more than jump only. And there was lots more in those six hours but I'll stop.

The Free is a different beast. Not in the case of Donovan (those swinging hips), who is just getting better all the time, the great Adam with his superb FS early on, poor Nika who doesn't have much to offer when the jumps are gone, the great Dennis, Jason and Lukas, Mikhail showing a bit more personality than usual, Gabriele who always seems to have one good and one bad programme (this was the badder one), Cactus Alexander showing his European medal wasn't a fluke even if he didn't manage that 10th placement, I know Shoma could have skated better but I applaud his sportmanship, and that smile of his is a jewel in itself, Yuma doing good again, and Ilia being the real quad God.

The boarding was really too close. Never have I seen so many skaters kicking it and falling. The only one doing that on purpose (without the falling) was Keegan, and that wasn't during the competition but at the gala.

Love the men!

I was so impressed by Ilia even if I think his skating skills and programs need some work. Love Jason's skating for Jason's skating and he does so well without a quad. Yuma the now in Japan skating. I kind of felt bittersweet for Shoma Was that his swan song? Adam was amazing but why the backflip??? I think he has great style and content. What a comeback just amzing. I was expecting great things from Cha, Jin, Gabriele, and was disappointed in general. Camden was a disappointment and Canada did poorly as I anticipated. I think they should have tried to convince Keegan to compete for Canada. What a masterful tech performance by Ilia. those quads and he has tried to add some style. Yuma also looks so strong. The top 3 men were amazing. The jumps especially. Yuma is getting consistent. And I love that Jason is still able to be in top 5.

 

[EyesOfLove]

It is more than justified that many skating fans don't like how great jumping receives a premium disproportionate to that placed on great spins, steps, or skating skills. Still, I do feel that when fans denounce that hierarchy, they sometimes unwittingly go to the extent of trying to reverse rather than level the hierarchy in our assessment of what comprises good skating, such that it becomes not only an 'okay' act but also a demonstration of 'refined taste' or even a piece of magnanimous advice to belittle a great jumper with weaker non-jump elements--and I'm talking about clean athletes here--whereas an artist with less strong jumps can always (rightly) be appreciated for who they are with the assets they have. Not to mention that there has been little attempt at introspecting on the exclusionary, highbrow definition of 'artistry' as equated to balletic lines and posture coupled with minimum two-foot skating.

 

[noskates]

I think Ilia should change the name of the Raspberry to the "flying whatchamacallit!" Far more innovative. On another note, I realize Richaud is revolutionary (in his own mind) but I, too, would like to see Adam skate to someone else's choreography. It's a little too esoteric for my enjoyment. Don't like "stories" that I can't figure out readily. And I would also like to see Ilia skate to music that he could interpret better. I do think his presentation has improved measurably but there's still a lot of untapped talent in that young man. Succession was a bit heavy. I think he and Adam are going to have a great rivalry and each will push the other to continue to improve.

 

[Mathman]

My concern for children is not feigned.

Me neither.

Do you remember the case of Chinese gymnast Sang Lan who at age 17 broke her neck on a practice timing vault at the 1998 Goodwill Games when someone stepped in front of her in mid-air to retrieve a mattress. She was paralyzed from the chest down and spent the next year at a New York.hospital.

When she returned to China she became an advocate for people with disabilities. She went to college and later married and has a son. Eventually she regained some movement but still, at age 42, uses a wheelchair.

OK, lots of people get injured in lots of ways. Still, this incident continues to stick in my mind.

 

[Mathman]

Still, I do feel that when fans denounce that hierarchy [jumps>PCS], they sometimes unwittingly go to the extent of trying to reverse rather than level the hierarchy in our assessment of what comprises good skating, such that it becomes not only an 'okay' act but also a demonstration of 'refined taste' or even a piece of magnanimous advice to belittle a great jumper with weaker non-jump elements...

I think that it is just that different fans respond to different aspects of a performance. In my case, the only performance that had me on the edge of my seat from beginning to end was Jason's. I am far from a refined artiste. Jason's music was the super-schmalzy "Impossible Dream." Right up my emotional philistine alley!

 

[figureskatingandrainbows]

I think the future of men's figure skating is very bright. I've heard some people (in other online spaces) say that skating is doomed because Ilia is guaranteed to win everything. But, whilst this competition was definitely messier and less competitive than we'd hoped, I see a lot of excitement ahead.

Obviously, Ilia will be the new leading man. His technical abilities are astounding, and he is so strong mentally (apparently he watches the competition whenever he can, which is absolutely insane). There is still room for him to grow artistically, and I'm sure he and his team will be working to get the rest of his skating up to the level of the podium, and there's also room for him to add in even more quads (which is just incredible). We've seen 4+4 combos in practice; I fully expect to see him coming out all guns blazing. However, I don't think he's unbeatable. Obviously, if he skates that free like he did on Saturday, he will be impossible to catch, but six quads are risky and errors can happen. I think his slightly scratchier landings and lower PCS means that he can be caught, but it will be so tough. I hope he stays healthy and am so looking forward to seeing his programs next season.

I fully expect to see the rise of Adam Siao Him Fa next season, even more so than at Worlds. He's struggled with peaking, and his Worlds practices were fair disasters, but with a World bronze under his belt and a high world ranking, hopefully he can start out the season a little slower and come into Worlds next season ready to deliver. We've seen a 4F from him in addition to the lutz, toe, and sal, so he could absolutely put out a 5-quad free next season. A clean skate from him with that tech BV could be enough to see him surpass even Ilia. Adam may not have the prettiest jumps, but he makes up for that with his sheer enthusiasm and excitement. I would love to see him try choreography from someone other than Benoit next season, perhaps maybe going to Shae or some other choreographer just to push himself artistically. I think he could be even better than his current programs, and he could absolutely be World Champion next season.

But one cannot count out Yuma Kagiyama, who has come back from injury to be probably the most well-rounded skater in the field. He scored a 310 with just a 3-quad free skate and a fall - that's how you know a skater has quality. His 4F was one of the highest-scoring 4Fs ever and such an incredible jump, with great technique to back it up. He will be returning to a four-quad layout next season, which will absolutely put him into the gold medal conversation even against Ilia. He scores higher on GOE and PCS on pretty much every element than the rest of the field, and his increased BV and the work I know he will do in the offseason to get even better will slowly close that gap between him and Ilia. He's currently working on a new free in Canada (I presume with Lori and Caro) and I cannot wait to see his programs next season.

Beyond the Worlds podium, there are so many skaters who might have had a rough Worlds but cannot be counted out. Shoma Uno still hasn't decided his plans for next season, but he is such a good skater that he will always be a podium threat if he decides to continue. If Junhwan Cha can get healthy, he will be fighting his way onto the Worlds podium. He is another skater who just oozes quality in everything he does, but was hindered by injury all season. I would love to see him return to the form he had last season where he was fighting for the world podium.

We can't underestimate the other Japanese men: Kao Miura, Shun Sato, Sota Yamamoto, Kazuki Tomono. They all will be fighting for GP medals at a minimum next season. Boyang Jin had a disaster at Worlds but is a much better skater now - could we see the Boyang Renaissance continue? And Aleksandr Selevko and Lukas Britschgi are small-fed powerhoues who could really shine next season. We've seen Sasha land a 4Lz fairly conistently in Worlds practices, so he could be a podium threat for sure on the GP Series. There are so many other great men, too. We have the rise of Nikolaj Memola and Mikhail Shaidorov, the return of Andrew Torgashev, Jason Brown, Roman Sadovsky, a more consistent Wesley Chiu, Matteo Rizzo as he continues to heal from surgery, and so many more! These next two years are going to be chaotic but a lot of fun!

 

[moonvine]

Thjere are, however, good reasons why backflips are not encouraged. The first is that we don't want unsupervised children practicing them in their own in emulation of top skaters, and end up breaking their necks. The other is that it is not really a skating move. It is acrobatics that has nothing to do with ice or skating.

The same thing applies to head-bangers and Detroiters in pairs -- crowd-pleasers in professional adagio shows (especially in small nightclubs or on cruise ships, where the rink is only a couple of meters across -- but disallowed in competitions.

Not sure the difference between unsupervised children practicing backflips on their own in emulation of top skaters and unsupervised. They could break their necks either way. It's not elite skaters fault if parents choose to not supervise their children. I'm not sure how jumps have to do with figure skating for that matter. Bring back figures! Then it would actually be figure skating.

 

[moonvine]

I think that it is just that different fans respond to different aspects of a performance. In my case, the only performance that had me on the edge of my seat from beginning to end was Jason's. I am far from a refined artiste. Jason's music was the super-schmalzy "Impossible Dream." Right up my emotional philistine alley!

I said it in the competition thread, and I will say it again. If a generational talent like Jason Brown is not winning world and Olympic medals, the scoring system is wrong.

 

[moonvine]

Ilia Malinin soars to new heights in Montreal

2024 World Figure Skating Championships: Men USA's Ilia Malinin soared to new heights with his record-breaking free skate in Montreal on Saturday night.

www.goldenskate.com

Just wow. Raise your hands if you have watched Malinin's FS more than three times in the past 24 hours!

And to make it even better, Brown strongly hinted he would be back and is off to create new programs!

Vasiljevs, OTOH wants to take a break

I'm so thrilled for all the medalists and hope that Uno keeps going as he is so special to watch! I do feel he's way too caught up on how his coach feels and wonder if that's healthy and/or not productive. I adore Lambiel, but, just saying...

Good on Siao Him Fa for an awesome comeback, but the backflip needs to go. I just think it's disrespectful. Save it for the shows.

I want a Kagiyama doll so I can pinch the cheeks whenever I want

I've watched Adams free skate more than 3 times in the last 24 hours.....

 

[Jeanie19]

I think the future of men's figure skating is very bright. I've heard some people (in other online spaces) say that skating is doomed because Ilia is guaranteed to win everything. But, whilst this competition was definitely messier and less competitive than we'd hoped, I see a lot of excitement ahead.

Obviously, Ilia will be the new leading man. His technical abilities are astounding, and he is so strong mentally (apparently he watches the competition whenever he can, which is absolutely insane). There is still room for him to grow artistically, and I'm sure he and his team will be working to get the rest of his skating up to the level of the podium, and there's also room for him to add in even more quads (which is just incredible). We've seen 4+4 combos in practice; I fully expect to see him coming out all guns blazing. However, I don't think he's unbeatable. Obviously, if he skates that free like he did on Saturday, he will be impossible to catch, but six quads are risky and errors can happen. I think his slightly scratchier landings and lower PCS means that he can be caught, but it will be so tough. I hope he stays healthy and am so looking forward to seeing his programs next season.

I fully expect to see the rise of Adam Siao Him Fa next season, even more so than at Worlds. He's struggled with peaking, and his Worlds practices were fair disasters, but with a World bronze under his belt and a high world ranking, hopefully he can start out the season a little slower and come into Worlds next season ready to deliver. We've seen a 4F from him in addition to the lutz, toe, and sal, so he could absolutely put out a 5-quad free next season. A clean skate from him with that tech BV could be enough to see him surpass even Ilia. Adam may not have the prettiest jumps, but he makes up for that with his sheer enthusiasm and excitement. I would love to see him try choreography from someone other than Benoit next season, perhaps maybe going to Shae or some other choreographer just to push himself artistically. I think he could be even better than his current programs, and he could absolutely be World Champion next season.

But one cannot count out Yuma Kagiyama, who has come back from injury to be probably the most well-rounded skater in the field. He scored a 310 with just a 3-quad free skate and a fall - that's how you know a skater has quality. His 4F was one of the highest-scoring 4Fs ever and such an incredible jump, with great technique to back it up. He will be returning to a four-quad layout next season, which will absolutely put him into the gold medal conversation even against Ilia. He scores higher on GOE and PCS on pretty much every element than the rest of the field, and his increased BV and the work I know he will do in the offseason to get even better will slowly close that gap between him and Ilia. He's currently working on a new free in Canada (I presume with Lori and Caro) and I cannot wait to see his programs next season.

Beyond the Worlds podium, there are so many skaters who might have had a rough Worlds but cannot be counted out. Shoma Uno still hasn't decided his plans for next season, but he is such a good skater that he will always be a podium threat if he decides to continue. If Junhwan Cha can get healthy, he will be fighting his way onto the Worlds podium. He is another skater who just oozes quality in everything he does, but was hindered by injury all season. I would love to see him return to the form he had last season where he was fighting for the world podium.

We can't underestimate the other Japanese men: Kao Miura, Shun Sato, Sota Yamamoto, Kazuki Tomono. They all will be fighting for GP medals at a minimum next season. Boyang Jin had a disaster at Worlds but is a much better skater now - could we see the Boyang Renaissance continue? And Aleksandr Selevko and Lukas Britschgi are small-fed powerhoues who could really shine next season. We've seen Sasha land a 4Lz fairly conistently in Worlds practices, so he could be a podium threat for sure on the GP Series. There are so many other great men, too. We have the rise of Nikolaj Memola and Mikhail Shaidorov, the return of Andrew Torgashev, Jason Brown, Roman Sadovsky, a more consistent Wesley Chiu, Matteo Rizzo as he continues to heal from surgery, and so many more! These next two years are going to be chaotic but a lot of fun!

Great post and I agree with virtually everything. But I'd like to add two more men. Deniss Vasikjevs #7 at Worlds.. He has landed a 4S a few times in competition, his spins and skating skills are great. Kevin Aymoz, #6 on seasons best, needed to take a break but he is 26, with 12 seasons skating so its understandable. Kevin has a 4T, great spins and step sequences and innovative choreography.

 

[lariko]

If people want a rebel, they should post his gala exhibition somewhere.

Oh I want this!

 

[Arigato]

Do you remember the case of Chinese gymnast Sang Lan who at age 17 broke her neck on a practice timing vault at the 1998 Goodwill Games when someone stepped in front of her in mid-air to retrieve a mattress. She was paralyzed from the chest down and spent the next year at a New York.hospital.

When she returned to China she became an advocate for people with disabilities. She went to college and later married and has a son. Eventually she regained some movement but still, at age 42, uses a wheelchair.

OK, lots of people get injured in lots of ways. Still, this incident continues to stick in my mind.

Christopher Reeve came off his horse during an equestrian competition and was paralyzed from the neck down the rest of his life. I came off my horse during an equestrian competition while taking him over a tall jump, but did not get paralyzed. My mother and coach were standing side by side - one giving an emotion-based argument as to why I shouldn't get back on the horse immediately: "She's going to kill herself!" and my coach giving a logic-based argument with the pros and cons, as well as the likely consequence of not immediately mounting my horse and going back over the jump. I was 10 years old.

I chose the logical route, and even with all that adrenaline coursing through me from the hard fall, I climbed back up on the horse, shaking like a leaf, and took him over the jump. It was my greatest life lesson and I'm lucky I could get it so early. I don't believe in destroying the dreams of kids, instilling fear in them unnecessarily, or altering a sport because of a danger that is statistically minimal or the possibility of a freak accident.

 

[NanaPat]

i don't think the arabian nor the raspberry twist land on an edge and yes, i recall the argument with surya... and she learned how to land it one one foot and i loved it in combo with the 3s... talk about a cool transition

lol... it is whack ! i love it though.

yeah... very few skaters can do the euler beautifully.... but i don't think judges penalize for ugly eulers

Thank goodness the Euler is becoming less common because of jump+2A+2A combos. Many skaters look like they are trying to step sideways over a big puddle without getting their feet wet.

 

[YuBluByMe]

Ilia Malinin soars to new heights in Montreal

2024 World Figure Skating Championships: Men USA's Ilia Malinin soared to new heights with his record-breaking free skate in Montreal on Saturday night.

www.goldenskate.com

Just wow. Raise your hands if you have watched Malinin's FS more than three times in the past 24 hours!

Raising my hand here.

And I was in the arena. And let me tell you, the crowd was already halfway losing their minds at the 4Lz+1Eu+3S and there was this collective release of massive energy in the crowd after his last jumping pass. My section (and other areas of the arena) got up on our feet at the start of his choreographic sequence and was cheering him on to the finish line. It was great! Ilia received the biggest, longest standing ovation of the night! Awesome stuff and great to witness live.

I think the short and free skates of the men’s event were of equal quality. Jin not making the free was unexpected and a bit of a tragedy. I was also hoping Samoilov will do better after his top 10 finish at Europeans. I’ve always liked him and hope he gets better control of his huge jumps one day.

Poor Starostin. He looked so upset in the K&C. 16 men were cut so I felt a good skate or two wouldn’t make the free. This actually didn’t happen as everyone that didn’t make it had major mistakes or were sloppy with lower technical content.

HOWEVER….

it annoys me to no end that Kim Hyungyeom, who I think I had the best SP performance until Sadovsky, barely made the free skate and Siao Him Fa spent his SP tripping over his jumps and congratulating the ice with his butt yet scored three points higher than him. Some of ya’ll want to talk about scoring discrepancies and PCS being incorrectly scored? Well, there’s Exhibit A right there.

Sadovsky and Pulkinen are the same sort of skater to me as it’s just hard to enjoy them even when they’re doing well. But Pulkinen is like a scoop of plain vanilla ice cream to me. I watched him all this year yet gun to head I still won’t be able to recall his programs. Sadovsky, on the other hand, has sprinkles, chocolate syrup, and a cherry on top. I hope he gets it together, but I’m not holding my breath.

Selevko should be of the same ilk, but I think he has a will Pulkinen and Sadovsky just don’t have yet. I remember this one time when he made the free by the skin of his teeth, was the very first skater out for the free and landed a 4Lz and a bunch of other stuff, and we all started a kill count. Here, he did very well in both programs so it’s a shame he missed out on a top 10 finish by 2-3 points. But context is important. He didn’t blow it. He gave himself the best opportunity and it just didn’t work out. His performances were great follow-up to his Europeans silver medal and he earned two GP spots several times over. Onwards and upwards!

Britschgi had another top 10 showing and Memola had a great debut, but he needs to work on his spins.

I haven’t enjoyed Carillo since 4CC some years ago. I haven’t enjoyed his programs in a long time. He does nothing for me and he really needs to improve his skating skills. Slow skating to something like Sexyback is not it. But good on him for personal bests and for landing a 4S. He looked great at the practice I saw and the SP
especially was exactly like his practice.

I do enjoy Shaidorov but he’s even slower live than he is on screen. His free skate was almost unbearable for me. Do not skate to dramatic, grand music until your skating skills improve! Otherwise, the poor skating will be emphasized and on full display.

Kagiyama’s awesome live and on-screen. As far as I’m concerned, that 4F was the best 4F that’s ever been landed. I was rooting for him to take the gold and I thought he had it after his free. But I’m certainly not shedding any tears. Victory was snatched from him in the best way. The large margin of victory is deserved and fair. Lower Ilia’s PCS to the 80 that it should be and it’s still a 15 point victory. And rightfully so.

I think it’s interesting to note the opinions of someone completely unknowledgeable of the sport so I’ll mention my brother’s take on the event.

My brother’s favorites in the free skate were Adam and Ilia. He was cracking up while waiting for Uno’s score because he was imagining Uno being ahead of Siao Him Fa by two points. Honorable mention goes to Kagiyama. No one else need apply.

In the SP, his favorites were Economides, Memola, and Kagiyama. I thought he liked Memola because of his height (bro’s the same height), but he barely mentioned it but that had to have been what got his attention in the first place. He liked his musicality. Honorable mention goes to the second half of Selevko’s SP. He doesn’t forgive falls (he made an exception for Kagiyama’s fall in the FS) and he doesn’t like pops either, though he doesn’t notice when someone pops the second half of a combination (i.e., Brown’s +1Eu+2S) or the rare quad pop to a triple (Selevko’s popped 4Lz to a 3Lz).

 

[Mathman]

@Arigato I am happy rhat everything worked out so well for you.

Christopher Reeve was one of the U.S. celebrities who made a point of visiting Sang Lan in the hospital during her convalescence.

 

[Arigato]

Christopher Reeve was one if the U.S. celebrities who made a point of visiting Sang Lan in the hospital during her convalescence.

I wouldn't expect anything less from Chris.

 

[moonvine]

Best back flip: Jumpin' Jpe Sabovcik (1984 Olympic bronze medalist and long-time professional show skater). As far as I know he is the only skater who could do a back flip in full lay-out position. He also was landing quds in practice, but never attempted one in competition.

Keegan?

 

[moonvine]

Why would USFS promote Ilia when they have scintillating content like this?

 

[moonvine]

Christopher Reeve came off his horse during an equestrian competition and was paralyzed from the neck down the rest of his life. I came off my horse during an equestrian competition while taking him over a tall jump, but did not get paralyzed. My mother and coach were standing side by side - one giving an emotion-based argument as to why I shouldn't get back on the horse immediately: "She's going to kill herself!" and my coach giving a logic-based argument with the pros and cons, as well as the likely consequence of not immediately mounting my horse and going back over the jump. I was 10 years old.

I chose the logical route, and even with all that adrenaline coursing through me from the hard fall, I climbed back up on the horse, shaking like a leaf, and took him over the jump. It was my greatest life lesson and I'm lucky I could get it so early. I don't believe in destroying the dreams of kids, instilling fear in them unnecessarily, or altering a sport because of a danger that is statistically minimal or the possibility of a freak accident.

It's much safer now (at least than when Christopher rode and I rode). The safety helmets are better (and required) and they wear air vests.