Replay Lounge 2025 GP de France

[Mathman]

(no more likely to work than his predecessor...

Is this post about Nathan Chen? I would say that it worked like a T for both Nathan and Ilia. Their jump content cannot be matched and they get prettty good components, too. What else would a skater wish for?

 

[4everchan]

Nathan Chen was a much better artist/skater than the current quad god. Sorry but he was very beautiful to watch with great posture and refinement. It's hard to find an angle from where he didn't look good.

YMMV

 

[Magill]

Is this post about Nathan Chen? I would say that it worked like a T for both Nathan and Ilia. Their jump content cannot be matched and they get prettty good components, too. What else would a skater wish for?

I think what was meant was that it worked for the medals alright but did not work so well for the public's love. And some skaters want that too...
And still it turned out more difficult to bend than the scoring system.

 

[Dreamer57]

Well, when in women Nakai didn't go for second 3A in a combo and I sighed that she's not Kostornaya yet, I then sighed even deeper for the times when it looked like Kostornaya only had two 3As to rely on versus a heavier TES. I am glad women with ultra c got on the podium ahead of the lower tech ones, but overall... yeah, I miss the times when Kostornaya 'only' had two 3As. Those were good times...

Ami didn't need to go for a second 3A in a combo. She won without it.
I think she has tried that in juniors and it didn't go so well. Better to attempt it in later competitions, this one was about getting the SP with 3A clean.

Love how there is a veteran as well as a new senior on the podium!
I feel a little bit sorry for Isabeau who could well have earned a silver medal with that score in other GPs...

 

[Magill]

Summing up.
I loved the Women competition - so happy for Ami and Rion, great scores and placements for them, and still quite a room to improve. I did like Kaori for most of the last quad, but there is something missing now for me, apparently her skating has not changed but she's been leaving me cold now for some time, so I root more for others.
I also loved Isabeau, I do have a soft spot for her since she was a junior, and will always have, this 4th place may seriously impact her chances to go to GPF and though I truly loved the podium, and thought it well deserved, I thought her skate was also lovely if not for the mistakes. She has a unique elegance and charm to her, and I hope she knows it and will be able to keep it no matter what.

As for ice dance - Laurence and Guillaume were a huge disappointment to me and the only thing they made me feel was how much I miss Gabby, and how unimpressed I am by C without P. The arms tricks were there, but the magic, the feel, the vibe was gone, and I do not think it is the matter of time, I do not see it coming back. they're just not even close to what P/C were. I just hope they will not be rewarded based on the past which is just not there anymore. And there is a part of me feeling good about it because in the end of the day I was always Team Gabby and I am happy it was proved she could not be just simply replaced. Gabby, you are the best and the queen!!!
Having said that, I am very happy for Lilah and Lewis, I really loved their skates and felt their win very well deserved. I like them.

As for pairs, I love RR, and I am very happy they seem to be in a good place for the Olympic season. We still need to see Sui/Han. I think if the Chinese are anywhere close to their great shape, their rivalry for OGM could be epic. I am all for that as I loved Sui/Han too.

Men as the discipline are in fact deteriorating. More quads and higher TES but less fun, less charm, less anything meaningful.... Sorry to see, it used to be my favourite discipline. Not any more. Maybe some next event will manage to restore my interest but as for today... sorry, guys.

 

[Lamente Ariane]

Nathan Chen was a much better artist/skater than the current quad god. Sorry but he was very beautiful to watch with great posture and refinement. It's hard to find an angle from where he didn't look good.

YMMV

Agreed. Nathan Chen really came into his own as a performer/artist starting in 2018-19 though some of his programs showcased that better than others, and he was definitely more electrifying in galas than in most of his free skates. He was never my favorite skater, but I think it's pretty silly not to acknowledge that he was more than just quads. His Caravan SP was a delight, and I remember enjoying his Philip Glass FS as well.

While I haven't seen Ilia Malinin live (and am willing to believe others who have said he has great charisma in the arena) his performance style reminds me a lot more of Plushenko than Nathan. Like Plushenko, he can get caught up in showboating for the audience, and sometimes it fits the program and sometimes it doesn't. He's not my cup of tea, and that's fine. But I do think he and Nathan are pretty different when you actually look at their skating (vs their jump content, and the flag beside their name).

 

[TontoK]

Is this post about Nathan Chen? I would say that it worked like a T for both Nathan and Ilia. Their jump content cannot be matched and they get prettty good components, too. What else would a skater wish for?

They both seem to take this approach: "I'm going out there and do the most technically astounding program, and make it look like fun for the spectators, and you can either keep up or resign yourself to losing to me pretty consistently." Of course, the approach depends on the man delivering when it counts, which Nathan famously did not do at his first Olympics.

I will say he seems like a nice guy, and he and other skaters seem to genuinely like each other. I think Yuzu and Nathan probably respected each other, but I'm not sure they liked each other.

 

[4everchan]

Catching up on the RD

FBC : I used to watch only Guillaume when he skated with Gabriella. I only noticed he was there when he stumbled on the Characteristic Steps. Laurence was in your face good in projecting this program. He was washed out. What wasn't washed out was the crazy GOE they got for every single element. I am sorry but the judges could be just a bit more subtle. I felt like a kid was trying to cheat me at Monopoly. I saw what you did there. Without that fall on the final element, they would have a huge lead and I am not sure that's really fair. Oh... and people complain when skaters seem to buy their costumes from Walmart... but Lolo just bought hers from Victoria Secrets... she's better than that. I have to say that I am sad they had to ditch their Depeche Mode program. At least, it was interesting. Vogue is so much déjà vu.

Arnaud : ermmm Hello there !

Bratti Somerville : talking about déjà vu...

It was more fun if less "competent" : if you want to stop in the midline and do a move from the ice... do it well. However, Ian is my favourite US male ginger ice dancer. Loves him.

Pate Bye... I guess I am old and it's late... I don't do well with metal when I am trying to just chill while watching what I thought would be a chill RD competition. Skipping ahead. Sorry.

Jean-Hans or John-John when translating the French and German into English : I thought he was going to skate to flight of the bumble bee... or Lala land... I guess none of these would qualify as 90s music... I have no idea what music they are skating to and I am pretty competent in 90s music. I guess it's Arribert for you. but the program bored me a bit.

Next group.

I am only a fan of one team in that last group..... let's see how I cope with this. On top of that Leylah Fernandez (yes, I am watching tennis at the same time) was headed to an easy victory until she wasn't anymore...third set incoming..

Marie-Jade and Romain. So sad this RD will have to be changed later in the season. I like it. That rotational lift is awesome. If you are wondering why fans complain about judging all the time : just compare FBC" s basic curve lift and Marie-Jade and Romain's very acrobatic rotational lift and tell me which one should get better GOE... Yeah right. I understand their skating skills are not the greatest but give them what they are good at.

Maybe one day the judges will reward them for what they do so well : interpretation of music.

OMG what are the Georgians wearing ?

Their midline was way overscored . Diana was dragging behind like crazy. Good twizzles for them. Their lift also seems to have received less GOE than FBC which is not cool. . They are faster than before and they were high energy. I just find him so much better than her that it's difficult for me to appreciate them as a team. However, they have improved but for me, maybe not as much as the judges reward them for. .
One point away from FBC, even with FBC falling is just like.. a choice I wouldn't make

Next is Saulius being too sexy for his shirt... what else is new ? Well, what's new is that this is the theme this year so good for them.
And that shirt is quite the shirt you know. Oh wait, another nice and exciting lift getting less GOE than FBC's.
The characteristic step sequence was awesome too. So far, and I believe it may remain like this, this is my favourite RD today. I am so happy they will be at the Olympics.

Charlène and Marco : again, horrible but horrible costumes for their RD. Two years in a row.. and again, a very common choice for music. Super generic RD and in an Olympic year, considering who is competing, this won't do it. I hope for them that they switch their RD because this is NOT going to bring them close to a podium finish this year. Just look where they rank in a GP and you get the answer already. I guess their best bet is a team event medal but I don't see them earning a podium in the ice dance portion. not happy at the score and of course, I feel for them... Marco leaves the KnC.

Lilah and Lewis : of course the 90s theme suits them... that's what they have been doing forever. Their RD is high energy and they do it well. I am still not going to become a fan but I appreciated it, especially after some of the other WTRD moments of the competition. Finally a lift that earns higher GOE than FBC and rightly so.

High score. It will be interesting to see what will happen in a few hours for the FD.

 

[noskates]

I think the theme this year for the Rhythm Dance was terrible. It certainly didn't do the participants any favors. I think I've heard enough Madonna for the decade. And don't get me started on the costumes.............

 

[4everchan]

Was there ever a good theme since they've scrapped the real pattern dance steps sequence ? No. Madonna is definitely not the most chosen artist from the 90s... there are so many Ricky Martin or Back Street Boys programs. Madonna was just over represented at this GP event . However, I think the 90s is probably the best option for the Olympics. It brings together the crowd that had money to spend, not too young and not too old. The music from that decade was fun and upbeat. The problem doesn't necessarily reside in the decade but in the laziness of coaches and choreographers who have picked the same 4 or 5 artists for everyone to skate to.

Here is something nobody (as far as I know) has picked up and that would have been Very (pun intended) fun

and that's just one example... do not dare me to come up with many more because I just can but would rather not burden this thread. There are a lot of options which were not chosen.



and another one.. just because I can

 

[4everchan]

and one more... just because we are only allowed two per post

 

[TallyT]

Was just sayin' the exact same pr spin was spun then, and is being spun now, for pretty well equal levels of artistry, audience appeal and star quality. So complaining that the discipline's going in the wrong direction now is pointless, TPTB think it's The Future and are not going to change.

Anyway, I giggled a lot when seeing the ID results. That's just the most blatant of the four disciplines for 'watch the ones I like and ignore the rest' scoring.

 

[Mathman]

Was just sayin' the exact same pr spin was spun then, and is being spun now, for pretty well equal levels of artistry, audience appeal and star quality. So complaining that the discipline's going in the wrong direction now is pointless..,

That, to me, is the bottom line. Math is math, points are points. If it's not about ponts, it's pointless.

In the SP Malinin did 4F (11 base value points), and 4Lz+3Tx (17.27), with good quality. This put him ahead of skaters who did "only" 4T and 4S. Higher faster, stronger.

Does this make him as beloved by audiences as Hanyu? As Plushenko? As Toller Cranston? Does this question have a point?

 

[noskates]

Well, who you love is always a matter of opinion. I happen to like Ilia and think his artistry has improved in leaps and bounds over the past couple of years. No he's not a Jason Brown or a Patrick Chan or my favorite Kurt Browning but figure skating has changed and he represents what's happening now. He's racking up points where others are failing. He's skating relatively clean while others are splatting. I think he exhibits a lot more personality than Egadze, for example. That's the name of the game, isn't it? Wait a few years when he's been around and winning as long as Hanyu and Plushenko did and we'll see..............

 

[Magill]

That, to me, is the bottom line. Math is math, points are points. If it's not about ponts, it's pointless.

In the SP Malinin did 4F (11 base value points), and 4Lz+3Tx (17.27), with good quality. This put him ahead of skaters who did "only" 4T and 4S. Higher faster, stronger.

Does this make him as beloved by audiences as Hanyu? As Plushenko? As Toller Cranston? Does this question have a point?

Yes, points are points and have not much to do with higher, faster, stronger, lol. Unlike any objective measure, higher points just show that some judges awarded a higher amount of points based on their judgement which is subjective-by-definition, based on an arbitrarily agreed upon point system which can be changed any day assigning points in a completely different pattern from now on. Whether they were right or wrong can always be debated, unlike the objectively measured results in some other sports, those of the truly "higher, faster, stronger" type. This is just an intricate weakness of any subjectively judged sport.
Math is math, points are points, and understanding methodology runs them all.
Does the score make IM beloved by audiences like Hanyu? No. Hanyu was/is not loved for his scores. At least, not just for his scores.
But does this amount of points makes IM more artistic or worthy of higher PCS? IMO, no. But ...., see the beginning of this post, lol.

 

[DizzyFrenchie]

That, to me, is the bottom line. Math is math, points are points. If it's not about ponts, it's pointless.

In the SP Malinin did 4F (11 base value points), and 4Lz+3Tx (17.27), with good quality. This put him ahead of skaters who did "only" 4T and 4S. Higher faster, stronger.

Does this make him as beloved by audiences as Hanyu? As Plushenko? As Toller Cranston? Does this question have a point?

I can't even speak for GPF because I haven't watched it; who knows, someone may have recovered his Quadruple jumps. I'm speaking of the latest years.
A 4F is 11 in BV but a 4F< is 8.8, it's just mathematic. And it's not because the Technical Panel doesn't see an underrotation, that the underrotation doesn't exist. Asserting that because the score sheet says 4F there's a rotated 4F, in the state of current judging (and only for some skaters; for other skaters errors will be called accurately), falls under surreality, as coined by Solzhenitsynm just like when the Party would tell that you've received 5t of seeds but there were 4t of which 1t was rotten; this was enabled by the impossibility of contesting what was written on the paper, even the most blatant inaccuracies. ISU's prohibition of any contestation whatever the enormity of judging errors, enabled the apparition of such surreality, about mid-2010s in the IJS I believe (in the 6.0 system, they didn't have to pretend). As long as IJS rules remained more or less enforced, great Figure Skaters emerged, particularly in North America, but now, what chance do the best stand, even if per the rules they are better?
Thank you Gsk8 for the link because ISU's site keeps getting less ergonomic:

https://isu-d8g8b4b7ece7aphs.a03.azurefd.net/isudamcontainer/CMS/Corporate-Site/Governance/Transparency/ISU-Communications/2707-ISU-SOV-SinglesPairs-2025-26-25-05-01-1747377995-9986.pdf

As I am in there, I would say that while I very much appreciate that each judge can weight different Component and GOE criteria at their wish, they still must adhere to their own chart, therefore it would be much more transparent should each judge have to communicate to ISU their own chart, and should ISU publish these charts, so that we can see if they stick to them, if they have occasional errors (which would be more reduced, should some of these criteria be measured with automated means to reduce their huge workload, yes it's very feasible), or if they completely disregard any chart and score at "whim". Regarding the "very high and very long" bullet for jumps Grades of Execution, I think that many functions could provide satisfactory graphs where a higher jump would need less length to comply with the bullet, or a longer jump would need less height.

Edit: suppression of part of a sentence which was out of this topic.

 

[lariko]

I see that in pairs there was 0 movement in placements between the SP and the LP.

Hungarians almost managed it.

And, I am getting so tired of the whole passive aggressive stuff. A higher praise for one skater, love for them, and appreciation for their artistry doesn't take away from the older favs. Ilia is fun, entertaining and brazen in his programs, leveraging his exceptional jumping talents to include stuff that goes beyond already beautiful jumping passes and spins. As the rest of the field struggles, he shines.

The most amazing but also revolting comment on human nature is that the toxic dislike of Ilia gives raise to insincere championing of other skaters who are perceived in any way as his potential rivals. Basically anyone who at all can come close to beating him is declared artistic and is bathed in toxic positivity. Lol. I guess it's Egadze's turn now and I can't wait for the intellectual contortions it would take some posters here to upheld him as the rising star of artistic figure skating for being second to Ilia and go on about how much he improved.

Imo, Ilia deserves better from the fandom and the other skaters also deserve better. There is such a thing as karma. If you sit there, feverishly praying that Ilia trips on each one of his passes, that toxic energy would attach itself to whoever is your favorite. This is btw why you don't even see his program, because all you do is wait for next chance for him to make a mistake.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Oh someone who actually thinks Isabeau needs someone else than her coach as her choreographer who tends to basically repeat the previous year choreography to different music. I would love to see what Lori Nichols or Shay Lynn could do for her.

There are more of us than you think. I would love to see what Kaitlyn Weaver, Shae-Lynn Bourne or Jeff Buttle could do with her choreography-wise.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Ami Nakai nailed it. Wow.... and Isabeau is such an ice princess... I love her. This dubidubidoo song is just too cute

It's actually Zoo-Be-Zoo-Be-Zoo from The Millionairess, which is a Sophia Loren movie. Sophia Loren movies are the theme of her SP.

 

[lariko]

Ami didn't need to go for a second 3A in a combo. She won without it.
I think she has tried that in juniors and it didn't go so well. Better to attempt it in later competitions, this one was about getting the SP with 3A clean.

Love how there is a veteran as well as a new senior on the podium!
I feel a little bit sorry for Isabeau who could well have earned a silver medal with that score in other GPs...

Yes, and i specifcally miss the times when she would have needed it, and clean, to win due to stronger competition.