Away with Quads!!

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I think we won't ever see two revolutions or more with a forward landing on purpose just because it will look like an incomplete attempt at a double axel or triple. 1.5 revolution jumps also run the risk of looking like failed doubles, and under the current rules they would count as bad singles and take up a spot that could have been used for a triple, but they were rare even before this system.

Trying to land only on the forward edge without a toepick assist after more than one revolution would just be asking to fall on your face.

In the case of the loop jump even one revolution of landing on a forward edge is dangerous and literally never seen except on rollers. Also unless the skater did consecutive forward loop jumps, the judges would just think they were incomplete axels

Joe

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

For forward landing jumps see Robin Cousins' beaultiful one a half flip - usual flip take off, one and a half turns in the air and a right toe assist push into a LFO edge, he often then immediately does a LFO three turn into double flip. Its a very pretty combination.Ant

Isn't a half flip a Mazurka? I don't remember Cousins that well. I wasn't near a TV. And yes, a nice combination.

Joe

 

[antmanb]

Isn't a half flip a Mazurka? I don't remember Cousins that well. I wasn't near a TV. And yes, a nice combination.

Joe

The one and a half was referencing the number of rotations rather than meaning a "half flip".

A half flip and half lutz are half revolution jumps that take off like the their full revolution equivalent but land with a LEFT toe assist and push onto right edges ( i think inside edges). I think they are elements required in the very low level ISI test and i think hamper learning of the full revolution jumps because you get used to landing on the wrong foot (the left toe pick as opposed the right toe pick for teh full revolution jump).

A Mazurka i think (but may be wrong) has a toe loop take off, the legs kick out in the direction they would go for a toe loop but the body sort of hangs back...the body and leg postiio is really diifuclt to describe with words!

Ant

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I suppose by definition (I haven't looked it up) that a Mazurka is a toe loop takeoff, although I would not object to a flip like take off.

But, a half a flip is one half of a single flip. Otherwise one has to say a flip and a half or a double flip and a half. I've seen those jumps landing on the toe picks and lunge into a sitspin. verty attractive! Sometimes I've seen a split flip and a half into sitsspin. Extremely attractive.

Joe

 

[antmanb]

I suppose by definition (I haven't looked it up) that a Mazurka is a toe loop takeoff, although I would not object to a flip like take off.

But, a half a flip is one half of a single flip. Otherwise one has to say a flip and a half or a double flip and a half. I've seen those jumps landing on the toe picks and lunge into a sitspin. verty attractive! Sometimes I've seen a split flip and a half into sitsspin. Extremely attractive.

Joe

One of the most beautiful jumps i ever saw was Stephane Lambiel warmiing up for worlds or Europeans - the first year he made a splash and didn't yet have the 3A or 4T. He started his warm up with absolutely huge split flips and split lutzes that a female pairs skater would be jealous of! Truly amazing.

Ant

 

[76olympics]

I finally saw a vid of John Misha Petkevich at 1971 Nationals and he did a tuck axel that was so neat looking. I am sure it would not garner many COP points--but I miss seeing simpler but beautifully done jumps. I like lots of "easy" (to real skaters, that is ! ) jumps like the stag jumps or Russian splits. That huge single axel that Josef Sabovcik does is also beautiful to me.

 

[SkateFan4Life]

While i do agree in pricnciple, wht do you call a mesy program with quad spills?

Thikning back to Elvis's days when he was going for the quad in every LP, sometimes he'd step out, some times he'd sit down on the attempt and sometimes would outright fall. It was often his second or third jumping pass in a program and it was often the only thing he missed, he'd then lay down the full 8 triples with at least one if not two 3/3 combinations. I don't think taking a spill on the biggest jump element for him detracted from teh rest of the program. Of course there are many other skaters who fall to pieces when they fall (or sometimes even when they land!) their big risky element.

Elvis you can distinguish on the basis that there are several other skaters who's spins and footwork were better, but what would you do with someone like Yags who equally was very capapable of taking a tumble on his quad but then laying down the 8 other trilpes with two 3/3 combinations. I think i'd give a Yags program with 8 triples and fall on a quad the nod over most of the current crop with the full 8 triples and no quad attempt.

It all dpeneds on the skater and what a "messy quad fall" program means.

Ant

Just what I wrote. A "messy quad fall" can and usually does result in the next few jumps either being watered down, missed, or executed poorly. A quad fall is typically jarring and effects most skaters quite badly. I'm certainly not criticizing them for this - it's just a statement of fact. Until this past season, Emanuel Sandhu could be counted on to completely fall apart after he fell on one or more of his quad attempts. I am so glad that this year he seems to have discovered the secret of "skating in the present" and forgetting mistakes that occurred a few seconds ago.

When those "messy falls" occurred, what was otherwise a wonderful program often became a disappointing effort.