Evgeni Plushenko

[whitebamboo]

^Thank you for the translation, WhiteBamboo. I tried to make sense of it but I could only read one word in five of the captions.

Maybe this is a weird place to discuss this, but I noticed your graph of his programs on your blog. It was interesting to see how you plotted his programs--I understood most of what you were going for, but at the same time I know I would've marked a few programs differently. Probably goes to show how subjective programs are, even when reduced to just two parametres.

Oh, thank you! I have to say that was probably one of those times when I kind of went off the deep end. :

I very much agree that how one interprets his programs can be very subjective indeed. Partly, I think it's because there's so many different things, different aspects to them...And it always seemed to me that in his programs, he often does not try to directly "tell a story" in any obvious way, but tends more towards the "evocative". I don't quite know how to express this, but maybe to me, it's as if he pulls the audience to "meet" him emotionally somewhere along the way...(Sorry, I suppose that does not make too much sense; it's hard to describe.)

 

[Sandpiper]

I think Plush's programs are more character pieces than story pieces. For instance: Crazy Bird, Dark Eyes, MJ Medley, Once Upon a Time in America, even Carmen to some degree. The Saint-Saens Medley was a story piece (Well, I saw it was a straightforward story piece about the dying swan, but you approached it differently on your Plushenkology blog, so maybe we can disagree. ). Nijinsky and St. Petersburg 300 were tributes. Everything else is pretty much about expressing a theme (desire in Tango Amore, control in Godfather, ect.)

For the graph: I'd have Crazy Bird and Storm down in the bottom of the Sexualization Level, with Adagio/Moonlight/Nijinsky higher up. Not because the latter three were particularly sexy, but because they were pretty enough that I found them sensual at least. Whereas Crazy Bird is, well... a fifteen-year-old kid acting like a bird. I'm also a bit confused about why Aranjuez is the most "masculine" program. I'd actually have it somewhere in the middle. (Godfather is the most masculine to me, with Je Suis Malade second.) But I pretty much agree with how you represented Asissai, Carmen, both Tangos, and pretty much everything else.

Btw, I only just realized how old that post was. For the life of me I can't figure out how I bumped into it. Perhaps someone reblogged it recently?

 

[plushyfan]

Woah, can't believe they said that! He handled it well though.


Doesn't sound crazy at all. I haven't had the chance to see him live either, but it's interesting to see fan videos of his performances. I think, in many instances, they capture something the professional camera crew doesn't. The effect he has on the audience, how he projects, what it feels like to be sitting there by the ice... This, for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5lAZtvnkak

I know personally that woman who asked that question. She is an Italian photoreporter from Rome. She has many beautiful photos about Plushy. She follows him almost everywhere...And she has a beautiful story with Plushy...



Oh yes! The crowd went crazy for him in China. I like the Chinese woman voice! She has a "mouse-voice" : "I love you Plushenko"
------

The newest montage about him. Sooo beautiful! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82WznEbR9oo and his hair and body are starring again..

 

[silverfoxes]

I know personally that woman who asked that question. She is an Italian photoreporter from Rome. She has many beautiful photos about Plushy. She follows him almost everywhere...And she has a beautiful story with Plushy...

Is she the one who does the interviews with him in Pinzolo and a lot of videos of him training? If so, I like her Youtube channel.

 

[plushyfan]

Is she the one who does the interviews with him in Pinzolo and a lot of videos of him training? If so, I like her Youtube channel.

Yes, she was -her name is Sara- in Pinzolo every year, but I think she isn't that woman. Probably you are talking about Lelo. Lelo has a very good YT channel. Many Italian women went to Pinzolo because of Plush. In Pinzolo last year was a woman from the Vatikan.

This is their beautiful site http://www.evgeniplushenko.it/

 

[plushyfan]

http://vk.com/figureskater?z=photo-65833250_331118007/album-65833250_195927218/rev

thx!

 

[silverfoxes]

Yes, she was -her name is Sara- in Pinzolo every year, but I think she isn't that woman. Probably you are talking about Lelo. Lelo has a very good YT channel. Many Italian women went to Pinzolo because of Plush. In Pinzolo last year was a woman from the Vatikan.

This is their beautiful site http://www.evgeniplushenko.it/

That is a very nice website. I hadn't seen that one before, so thank you! One thing I love about those Pinzolo videos is that you can see how completely down to earth and warm Zhenya is with his fans. The complete opposite of the ego-monster that some people on internet forums try to make him out to be. :scratch:

 

[Sandpiper]

But the ego-monster is a better character for the press. See, for instance, this article: http://sports.yahoo.com/news/injury...y-show-the-most-perfect-ending-181747942.html

I was almost a little disappointed to find out he was only about a quarter ego-monster, a quarter teddybear, and half "scrappy talented kid from nowhere." I related to the ego-monster more (that probably says some terrible things about me, but...). The sport needs a diva, and he happened to be blunt enough for the job.

But real people are always more complex than the caricatures painted by the press. The guy who stepped on the top podium step in Vancouver is also the boy who moved off to St. Petersburg alone at the age of 11--all because he loved figure skating. But trying to reconcile these two worlds doesn't make for easy, entertaining writing.

 

[whitebamboo]

I don't know, maybe for me personally, I would not really call it a matter of "ego" (in the way that I think his detractors tend to use the word). He is confident on ice, and proud of what he has achieved in figure skating, and he does not try to hide his lights under a bushel. He is aware of the fact that yes, indeed, he is extraordinary in many ways. (Okay, yes, I noticed that in the last sentence I said "fact", and I think that is the word I want to use. Though in other ways, he's always said that he is just an "ordinary person".) This is one of the things I like about him. I've always felt that one needs to try to assess one's self as honestly as one assesses others, especially in an professional area. Of course, it's never possible to claim to be fully objective in such matters, but one can make an attempt. An overblown view of one's self does not make sense, but neither does deliberate false modesty.

I often hear people say, "well, he is arrogant, but he can back it up", or "he has the right to be". I understand that this is usually said in a way that is meant to be not negative toward him, but to be honest, in my view of what would constitute "arrogance", a statement like that does not quite make sense. To me, if you can back it up--if it is justified--then it is not arrogance (and this does not only apply to Plushenko, but is a more general view). It would be different if he gratuitously or disrespectfully puts others down (which is different from specific criticism about skating)--which he does not do. I've always felt that arrogance is a form of ignorance, and, well, I think he is absolutely not ignorant about himself, or about figure skating, or about what he can do and has done in figure skating.

(But to be honest, maybe all this is less important...I know many, perhaps most, posters on this board are North American, but sometimes I do wonder if his biggest "personality flaw", to the eyes of the North American media, may simply be the fact that he is Russian. Sometimes I wonder how would he have been portrayed had he been, say, an American...(Not that I can actually picture him as an American.))

 

[LRK]

To me, he's like a cat. He's sure of what and who he is, and completely comfortable in his own skin - and that is very rare. In humans, I mean. Of course, cats are also considered by some to be "arrogant", so... what do I know? (I'm a cat fanatic. )

 

[Sandpiper]

To me, Plush has always come across as incredibly blunt more than anything else.

Of course it's because he's Russian! Can you imagine if an American figure skater brought back four Olympic medals? The media fawning would be through the roof. No way would NBC have aired that bizarre 2010 introduction with the dark Soviet imagery and villain music during his comeback. They'll instead highlight how he grew up poor on the streets of Arkansas (sorry, struggling to find an American equivalent of the Russian north), used to wear red jackets as a kid, and owns a big white cat that he'll cuddle during the interview. Just thinking about it actually nauseates me a little.

Oh, and so-called "controversial" comments he made? No big deal. Quite a few athletes from other countries (I won't name names since that sounds like we're bashing others while they can't reply in the Fan Fest) have made some comments, but hasn't stopped the English press from fawning over them. Nor have they been called (as far as I remember) "diva of figure skating." Granted, better a diva than a boring nobody.

Regarding cats: They're wonderful. But only the big ones. Anything smaller than a cheetah is blah.

 

[silverfoxes]

I agree, he's blunt and doesn't sugar-coat things. It's a cultural thing and on top of that, when he's interviewed in English, his fluency is limited, so he has to simplify his responses to questions. But I don't recall him ever being what I would call "prickly and trash-talking" as he was described in that Yahoo article.

Yes, as an American, I am often embarrassed by the way anything Russian is treated by the media. You can dislike a country's politics and still acknowledge the positive aspects of the culture, and treat its athletes as individuals and people just like those from anywhere else. But I guess it goes back to the point Sandpiper made about trying to reconcile two worlds...it's complicated and would require the journalists to educate both themselves and much of the audience, so why try when you can just fall back on stereotypes and cheap humor?

 

[LRK]

To me, Plush has always come across as incredibly blunt more than anything else.

Of course it's because he's Russian! Can you imagine if an American figure skater brought back four Olympic medals? The media fawning would be through the roof. No way would NBC have aired that bizarre 2010 introduction with the dark Soviet imagery and villain music during his comeback. They'll instead highlight how he grew up poor on the streets of Arkansas (sorry, struggling to find an American equivalent of the Russian north), used to wear red jackets as a kid, and owns a big white cat that he'll cuddle during the interview. Just thinking about it actually nauseates me a little.

Oh, and so-called "controversial" comments he made? No big deal. Quite a few athletes from other countries (I won't name names since that sounds like we're bashing others while they can't reply in the Fan Fest) have made some comments, but hasn't stopped the English press from fawning over them. Nor have they been called (as far as I remember) "diva of figure skating." Granted, better a diva than a boring nobody.

Regarding cats: They're wonderful. But only the big ones. Anything smaller than a cheetah is blah.

Oh... Wha... ! (splutters incoherently) How dare you! Consider my match with galiavich cancelled, young Miss! You are now my number one opponent! "Blah" indeed! My Sassi is not "blah", i shall have you know! Indeed! Hmph! Small cats are just big cats - except smaller! I for my part am totally convinced that small cats exist so that there should be cuddle-sized felines - cuddling a tiger could get a bit... awkward. Oh, and if you had seen a cat slap a full-grown grizzly bear in the face for being too familiar, you would never call them "blah"... (yeah, a blind grizzly and the cat's friend - but still full-grown for all that... )

But for big cats - here, this should amuse you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kPO65wYa74

And to keep this even remotely on topic, tell me we haven't all seen that killer expression in Plushy's eyes during competition.

 

[Sandpiper]

Nah, don't mind me too much. Small cats are fine. I'm just jealous 'cause I have no pets outside of the spiders on my window, so I've mentally adopted the big cats at the local zoo.

I won't give up though. I'm still trying to figure out a practical way to raise a cheetah. I heard the Indian princes of old did so, so why not me?

Killer-kitten expression on Plushy... How about the end of the program here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6GSvsVMPU8 I love this performance of Godfather but some of his expressions scared me.

 

[plushyfan]

You said everything about "Plushy's arrogance".

Stefan Lambiel:
."Actually Plushenko has strong personality. Plushy is very calm and in control of your emotions. Plushy is an easy going man and will not force his opinions onto others . But he is also a man who will stick to his own principle and won't let other people influence his mind ".


a poster on Youtube:
I used to hate him cause I thought he was arrogant, then in this hard times in Egypt I accidentally watched one of his routines. I suddenly felt his connection with the sport, he thinks he is the best, he wants to do his best, he wants everyone to know he is the best. It's not arrogance. He thinks the sport is the best thing in the world, and he wants to be the best in it. He is full of commitment to the sport. If I were a coach I would put someone like him in my team.

Tomas Verner:
He is good in every sport, which he tries. For example, I think I'm quite good in the table tennis. But Plushenko literally take away me from the table. I had no chance against him. We were playing football, and again I was amazed, how good is he with the ball, how well he is coordinated. This guy was born to become a superhero. If he comes back and win a medal in Sochi, he will rewrite the history of figure skating. It will be an outstanding achievement.
....

- Q: Tell me about a show, which was held in the middle of April in Prague.

- Tomas: It was quite special for me. I don't participate in too many shows during the season. But it was a case, which I could not refuse - I'm the leading skater in Czech Republic, even if the results of the worlds don't say so. Plushenko was the first star of the show, I was the 2nd. It was great to spend some time with Evgeni. I love sharing the ice with him, especially when we don't compete. I asked him to help me a bit with the jumps, and he agreed. It was nice of him.


Shinead Kerr:
...When I skated on his tour I found him very charming and nice to everyone but always with that extra "something" that defines a true star....

Vladimir Yudashkin the most famous and really talented Russian Designergoogle translation)

First of all I must admit that I am a big fan of Zhenya Plushenko. And when you respect an athlete , you know , and our responsibility , and his excitement and his condition . For me, Evgeni Plushenko - part and continuation of the great era Rodnina , dancing couple Navka - Kostomarov, we well remember at the Olympics in Turin , which made the whole world to watch figure skating . But , unlike other long-gone legends , he still continues to ride !

It amazes me in it and more. It would seem , Evgeni, international star , an anthology of his performances - a huge collection , which has no analogues , but he is very humble guy ... and Zhenya and his coach , Alexei Mishin - modest , educated , slim and intelligent people . Working with them was very pleasant.

- I was listening to music Zhenya's short program , perceived wishes of Alexei Mishin , and his role is akin to the role of theater director ... It is worth noting that both Zhenya and Mishin - they are by nature people are " misleading " , they do not allow you to delve into doubt. I see a lot of people with strong character , they surround me almost every day , but Zhenya is quite different. It is very uncommon combination is cold , icy mind and passionate heart .

and two stories from his fans
In China after Artistry on Ice 2012:

"There are so many tweets on Chinese Weibo praising his performance last night, many from non-figure skating fans. No doubt he is the most popular foreign athlete.

And fans all say that he is absolutely nice to the fans. Once you get to know him, he is acting all adorable, goofy and endearing around you.

There was also a girl working backstage as an assistant to the show's wardrobe department, she reported some "inside scoop". She had lots of chances going to the Men's changing room, and saw Plushy and Vitlay a lot. Plushy also asked their help to iron the costume.

She said Plushy is very tall, has a great body, and truly being very polite, respectful and mild mannered to others. But Plushy is giving wardrobe department headache, ;;-))) as he often forgot where his costume or props are, he is forgetful in such an adorable way.

In the end the girl cannot help herself but asked for a hug, Plushy hugged her and she was speechless. They also took picture together, she told him "I love you" in Russian, and he startled a bit, and said "Thank you. Love you too. Goodbye."

In Italy:

About this, I want to tell an episode, which shows another feature of Evgeni Plushenko to those who know him only as a proud champion and sometimes aloof.
We’re sitting on the usual place, in the stands, waiting to watch his workout, when the sound of suitcases laid on the ground makes turn our heads. It's Evgeni, evidently returning from an intense session in the gym, sweating and red in the face, a white towel around his neck.
At the same time we see coming down Chiara, who had announced his arrival today: she tells us that Evgeni had reached her on the stairs and he snatched away the baggage, after having embraced and warmly welcomed her. Then, he preceded her, carrying the bags and bringing her to us. We stare at him open-mouthed, and he smiled, amused by our surprise. He asked us "How are you?" and when we asked him how he was doing, he replied:: "Still alive!". Then he went to change his clothes to get on the rink. Also this is Evgeni Plushenko
We greet him in his day off and he tells us about future plans, the return to St. Petersburg in order to continue his training, then a trip to Geneva to meet a new and exclusive sponsor, and finally the Japan Open: it's too early for a real competition, but he tells us that he feels to face up to that commitment. "I still love skating very much", he concludes.
And we like to watch him skating. Very much.


and if you read his official site you find many similar stories...I totally agree with you Sandpiper, HE IS NEVER BORING!

 

[plushyfan]

I love the cats. And I love the dogs, too. They are so amazing.

The American media was friendly with Plushy in this year. I read some good articles about him.

 

[Sandpiper]

He thinks the sport is the best thing in the world, and he wants to be the best in it.

This, pretty much. I've never seen anyone so passionate about skating. I'm not a competitive skater, but I can relate to people who are passionate about something in life, who have a set, unwavering, nearly unreachable goal that they'll fight tooth and nail to attain. Much better to shoot for the moon and fail, than to ho-hum through life. (Though Plush is like the person who lands on the moon, and decides he wants to reach Mars... and then decides he wants to catch the stars.)

She had lots of chances going to the Men's changing room

?!?!?!

And here LRK and I were taking over the thread with cats...

Lol @ constantly forgetting where his costumes are. I can't judge him because I once ran around looking for a marker only to realize it was in my hand the whole time.

 

[silverfoxes]

Tomas Verner:
He is good in every sport, which he tries. For example, I think I'm quite good in the table tennis. But Plushenko literally take away me from the table. I had no chance against him. We were playing football, and again I was amazed, how good is he with the ball, how well he is coordinated. This guy was born to become a superhero. If he comes back and win a medal in Sochi, he will rewrite the history of figure skating. It will be an outstanding achievement.
....

- Q: Tell me about a show, which was held in the middle of April in Prague.

- Tomas: It was quite special for me. I don't participate in too many shows during the season. But it was a case, which I could not refuse - I'm the leading skater in Czech Republic, even if the results of the worlds don't say so. Plushenko was the first star of the show, I was the 2nd. It was great to spend some time with Evgeni. I love sharing the ice with him, especially when we don't compete. I asked him to help me a bit with the jumps, and he agreed. It was nice of him.

Aw. I liked all of those quotes, but I especially enjoyed the image of Plushy thrashing Tomas in table tennis. (I love Tomas too, btw.) And the image of the men's changing room...

I know Plushy is very good at soccer (football), and he plays "real" tennis, golf, skis, etc. He is a true athlete to the core. He even did some kickboxing with Johnny Weir at Tomas's show. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csizsr1CdEM

 

[whitebamboo]

To me, Plush has always come across as incredibly blunt more than anything else.

Oh, and so-called "controversial" comments he made? No big deal. Quite a few athletes from other countries (I won't name names since that sounds like we're bashing others while they can't reply in the Fan Fest) have made some comments, but hasn't stopped the English press from fawning over them. Nor have they been called (as far as I remember) "diva of figure skating." Granted, better a diva than a boring nobody.

Yes, he can be very blunt. But a part of it can be cultural. From what I've seen from interviews of other Russian skaters and coaches (admittedly not a huge amount), if anything, I wouldn't even say his level of bluntness is on the high end among them, generally speaking.

And the thing about so-called "controversial statements": there are times when he is critical about others' skating performances (and other times, probably more frequent, when he would be full of praises), but I have found that in such instances, he is always only talking about skating, and he is generally quite specific about what he liked and didn't like. Of course, one can agree or disagree with each of his opinions, but I think these statements needed to be agreed or disagreed with on their merits. I mean, how else should anyone talk about figure skating, if not this way? And btw, actually I've noticed that he is more often than not quite accurate in his assessments and predictions.

I tried to think about the statements he's made about others' performances on ice at times, which were called "controversial", and frankly, they were generally not "out-there" opinions, but assessments that as far as I could tell, many skating fans would not disagree with (because I usually see at least some people expressing the same opinions at the time). If one didn't agree with them--well, fine, there are disagreements in figure skating. What I don't get is why on a board entirely devoted to airing opinions about skating, some people would somehow talk as if for Plushenko--an expert on the subject, I'd say--giving his opinion about skating somehow reflects ill upon him.

I remember reading in an American MSM article a sentence along the lines "what makes Plushenko so enigmatic is that he always speaks is mind" (paraphrase). It stuck in my mind, because it was just...awfully revealing about the author, I'm afraid. And not to mention that some of the things written about him in the Western media are just, plainly and simply, false. (An AFP article this January, misquoting and mischaracterizing an interview of his, and which quite a few people on this board jumped on at the time, is one recent example.)

(And oh, by the way, please let me know when you've figured out how to raise cheetahs! I think they're also my favorite felines.)

 

[Sandpiper]

To be honest, I kinda... don't care... about his attitude/personality? As long as he doesn't do anything too overboard, like breaking the law on a regular basis or constantly spreading lies about his opponents (like saying they were faking an injury )... I mean, I'm not going to sit down and have dinner with him. I don't care if he gives the most PC interviews or seems like the nicest/meanest person around. I've never seen him, or any skater, as some kind of role model. Their role is to be good in their sport.

Whether he likes the same skaters I do matters far less than if I like his skating/programs. It helps that I agree with most of his assessments, or at least find them reasonable, but if he said Sabre Dance was his favourite SP... well, I'll be a little but I won't care unless he revives it next season.

From what I've seen from interviews of other Russian skaters and coaches (admittedly not a huge amount), if anything, I wouldn't even say his level of bluntness is on the high end among them, generally speaking.

I would agree with this.

What I don't get is why on a board entirely devoted to airing opinions about skating, some people would somehow talk as if for Plushenko--an expert on the subject, I'd say--giving his opinion about skating somehow reflects ill upon him.

The problem is he's a public figure. Which means he shouldn't give strong opinions. To be fair, this isn't limited to figure skating. For instance, it's generally seen as bad taste for authors to talk about another author's shortcomings. Even if it's fairly objective critique (e.g. too many adverbs) or subjective but reasonable feelings (e.g. I didn't connect with the characters).

The downside of this, sadly, is that compliments become worthless if you compliment everything. I wouldn't know when you're sincere and when you're not. At least with Plush, you know that's truly how he feels, even if you don't like it.

The best way is probably to critique while saying nice things at the same time... but if you say "X is good at this, needs to work on this" for everybody... that once again runs into the problem of not really differentiating between who's good or bad.

Blah, long rant. I've done editing work. Had to tiptoe around constructive criticism a lot. I managed to go from blunter than Plush to somewhat polite.

I remember reading in an American MSM article a sentence along the lines "what makes Plushenko so enigmatic is that he always speaks is mind" (paraphrase). It stuck in my mind, because it was just...awfully revealing about the author, I'm afraid.

Please tell me the author is being ironic or commenting wryly about the PC-obsessed society we live in? Because otherwise that just makes no sense.

I will say, I think the Yahoo article I linked to earlier was a good piece of prose. Not a good piece of journalism, due to the distorted-at-best accuracy. But it managed to turn the events into a storybook tale, and Plush into a larger-than-life character. It's irresponsible journalism, but I can see why the author was tempted to write something like that. It's, in many ways, more compelling than the reality. (Sorry, it sounds like I'm defending it, but compared to the idiot articles of "he faked an injury, didn't want to cede the spotlight, and is now off on tour" at least it was an interesting piece of fiction instead of just a stupid one).