Hersh on Plushenko/Russian Natls Scoring

[jennylovskt]

... that weird anti-gay campaign.

:scratch: It will open a whole new thread for it if I continue to say something. So I'll just state that I do not agree with this and stop here.

... But I would add if there is going to be a scandal it will most likely come from Canada, as it did in 2002, especially if they don't win a gold medal. *pout*

What?! Did French judge make the scandal or Canada?!:scratch: Who made the decision to give out the duplicate gold medal? The skate Canada?

 

[i love to skate]

I know she has a very sweet voice and talks carefully. I don't remember most of it by now but I remember vividly that she thought Ando's skating was void (of course she didn't use that word specifically but that's what she indicated) and couldn't see why it should be special or smth. (Please don't quote me on these, I'm just saying how it came off).. She also critisized Fumie, saying she didn't like the direction she took with Morozov, the style she's trying now doesn't work for her at all and etc etc.. Although no nasty things said, it all came too critical for anybody from the other side of the world, while NA skaters were praised over and over.. So at the end of the broadcast, I was left with a very bitter taste in my mouth.. It never happens to me when I watch European Eurosports (British, German or Russian) so even then (before anybody mentioned anyhing about the quality of commentary) I thought it was off... Btw, of course one's own skaters should be praised but there's a very fine but definete line before you go over the top. I think the overall commentary quality from your continent is dismal, which is a shame.

How is what Tracy said any different than what commentators have said about Chan or Buttle? The English commentators (who I love) critized Chan for not being exciting enough and have stated that his skating is missing something and doesn't do much for them. They also said in 2008 that they would have given the title to Joubert - or something along those lines.

Commentators are supposed to give their opinions and we are free to disagree with them.

What?! Did French judge make the scandal or Canada?!:scratch: Who made the decision to give out the duplicate gold medal? The skate Canada?

No, the French judge was the one who caused the whole scandal. It was the IOC who decided to award two gold medals. Somehow it all comes back to the fact that apparently "Canada complained". What would people rather have had them do? Sit back and accept the fact that cheating was going on behind the scenes?

 

[seniorita]

how can someone dont like Kozuka?I m waiting Plush to retire and I will fully dedicate to himHe is not in my dream podium now mostly because he is too young, but for Sochi he will be, as well as Amodio.

Eurosport trio are the best! Who was commenting for Cbc in Torino? I liked them also. I dont think it was Kurt, the man sounded older. Kurt sometimes can be ironic, which you can either laugh or get upset. I didnt like his remark that joubert in king of quad in talking, when you say these kind of stuff in public it looks bad. As for Plushenko, he has commented many things that I ve lost track, I still remember his interview after sp and lp in torino. All i can say is that you can tell if he likes someone or not from the first phrase. He is a legend and of course knows better than most, it is not what he has said, but sometimes it is accompanied with little laughs or irony and then I dont like it.

Although, I have to say that it's a good thing Lambiel is wearing that Zebra costume - otherwise I would have had no clue who it was

I thought he was the most spot on, when he laughs his eyes get tiny cute and he has the biggest smile Of course the costume gave him away

 

[schiele]

How is what Tracy said any different than what commentators have said about Chan or Buttle? The English commentators (who I love) critized Chan for not being exciting enough and have stated that his skating is missing something and doesn't do much for them. They also said in 2008 that they would have given the title to Joubert - or something along those lines.

Commentators are supposed to give their opinions and we are free to disagree with them.

Like I said, I don't remember the most of what was said, I remember the feeling I was left with, for which one must watch it from start to finish. It totally wore me down.. Of course commentators criticize things they don't agree with or like but when it comes in the form of pointing out negatives on most skaters apart from homies, it becomes very tiring for a neutral spectator. Btw, one of the British guys (I'm guessing Chris) thought Joubert was gonna win and expressed total suprise when he lost to Buttle in 2008. But the way he did so was never in a way that was criticizing or dissing Buttle's skate or success in the process. That's the difference I'm talking about.

PS: I just realized this thread has completely lost its focus!

 

[janetfan]

Of course commentators criticize things they don't agree with or like but when it comes in the form of pointing out negatives on most skaters apart from homies, it becomes very tiring for a neutral spectator. Btw, one of the British guys (I'm guessing Chris) thought Joubert was gonna win and expressed total suprise when he lost to Buttle in 2008. But the way he did so was never in a way that was criticizing or dissing Buttle's skate or success in the process. That's the difference I'm talking about.

PS: I just realized this thread has completely lost its focus!

If you are a "neutral" fan it would scare the heck out of me meet a "bot fan."
Your avatar screams out "I am not neutral" and that is OK.

The announcer you listened to either knows little about skating or was biased.
It is easy to like Joubert and see what is good about him. It takes a more knowledgeable broadcaster to appreciate how sublime Buttle's skating can be at times.

I prefer Kurt because he knows more about skating than most broadcasters.

That doesn't mean I have to agree with everything he says - but atleast i know when Kurt speaks it is with an unbelievable knowledge of skating.

 

[plushyta]

I prefer Kurt because he knows more about skating than most broadcasters.

That doesn't mean I have to agree with everything he says - but atleast i know when Kurt speaks it is with an unbelievable knowledge of skating.

But he is not objective

 

[seniorita]

If you are a "neutral" fan it would scare the heck out of me meet a "bot fan."
Your avatar screams out "I am not neutral" and that is OK.

her avatar screams that she is a normal fan who enjoys figure skating, coming from a country like mine where there is zero coverage of the sport it is pretty much admirable how she found out about fs, i m tired of country bias and europe conspiracies implication from you janetfan. Most people just enjoy the sport for what it is, not from where the skaters come from.
Stop calling everybody bots, it is very insulting.

 

[Tinymavy15]

Schiele, that is the best signature ever! So cute! You have to make you showing your top three ladies!

 

[janetfan]

her avatar screams that she is a normal fan who enjoys figure skating, coming from a country like mine where there is zero coverage of the sport it is pretty much admirable how she found out about fs, i m tired of country bias and europe conspiracies implication from you janetfan. Most people just enjoy the sport for what it is, not from where the skaters come from.
Stop calling everybody bots, it is very insulting.

Read the thread..........

I did not call anybody a "bot" - I just said I didn't think such a big Joubert fan was exactly neutral. I believe that is true whether you like it or not. And I said it was Ok and used a smilie.

I also was responding to remarks about Kurt and Canadian announcers. I did not start the topic and merely commented that I liked Kurt and that the Euro announcers are OK but not not my favorite.

Sorry if your country does not have much skating but that is hardly my fault.

And what if I called you a "plushybot." Would that be the worst thing anybody ever called you? I wonder.......

 

[Mathman]

The announcer you listened to either knows little about skating or was biased.

Actually, Chris and those guys on Eurosport are the most knowledgeable and least biased sportscaters around. I really think this is more than just an opinion to be debated. North American sportscasters feel that it is part of their job to root, root, root for the home team. That's OK with me -- they know who is paying their salaries and what the networks expect of them. But Eurosport does do a very creditable job. You can catch them on Internet broadcasts of major events. Check them out some time and see if you don't agree.

 

[janetfan]

Actually, Chris and those guys on Eurosport are the most knowledgeable and least biased sportscaters around. I really think this is more than just an opinion to be debated. North American sportscasters feel that it is part of their job to root, root, root for the home team. That's OK with me -- they know who is paying their salaries and what the networks expect of them. But Eurosport does do a very creditable job. You can catch them on Internet broadcasts of major events. Check them out some time and see if you don't agree.

I have only heard them on YouTube clips and I said they are OK. I don't love them and they don't bother me either.

I am sure they are credible just as I am sure I prefer Kurt.

I was responding to comments about the euro sport announcers neutrality - which was explained by saying they were sure Joubert won '08 Worlds.

I disagree and think Buttle won. But it seems clear that they were showing some bias and I have no problem with that.

Euro guys think Joubert won and Kurt thought Buttle won.

 

[luvsasha]

^^^ I love Nicky, Chris and Simon! They're probably my favorite commentators for figure skating

 

[jennylovskt]

Oh god, no. Raise the base value, make +GOEs the same as -GOEs, but do not start with bonuses. Yuck.

May I ask why?

Whatever methods, I don't care. I haven't thought about the details of the pros and cons about them yet. As long as it could emphasize the quad jumps more than it does now, it's OK with me.

 

[seniorita]

Actually, Chris and those guys on Eurosport are the most knowledgeable and least biased sportscaters around.

I love the eurosport guys, i wish i could meet them and go for a coffee with themThey seem very interesting people and their humor is unmatched, they take out the tense you may feel while watching and they look like they are entertained also while watching themselves, so you forget this is just their job. They give me the impression of being friends with eachother watching the competition from their couch, they surely have make the competition a pleasure to watch.

 

[Mathman]

Euro guys think Joubert won and Kurt thought Buttle won.

Do you remember if Kurt thought that Buttle won the long program, or just that Buttle was so far ahead after the short that Joubert's LP was not enough to overtake him? Joubert fell on his triple Lutz in the SP and was in sixth place, ten points behind.

What was bizarre about the LP was that the graceful, elegant skater, Buttle, lost on Program Component Scores to the guy with big jumps but weak choreography.

On the other hand, the big jumper, who landed 7 triples and a quad, lost on tech -- by ten points! -- to the guy known more for his soulfulness than his jumping.

Some unexpected judging, to be sure.

 

[i love to skate]

What was bizarre about the LP was that the graceful, elegant skater, Buttle, lost on Program Component Scores to the guy with big jumps but weak choreography.

On the other hand, the big jumper, who landed 7 triples and a quad, lost on tech -- by ten points! -- to the guy known more for his soulfulness than his jumping.

Some unexpected judging, to be sure.

Brian did mostly level 2 spins, didn't have a three jump combination, did a silly 2 axel single toe combination, and had two edge calls. More to technical content than just jumps.

 

[Mathman]

Brian did mostly level 2 spins, didn't have a three jump combination, did a silly 2 axel single toe combination, and had two edge calls. More to technical content than just jumps.

Well, I can see all that now in the protocols. But watching in real time, I thought the judges would give the LP to Joubert, and then it was just a case of whether Buttle had a big enough cushion from the SP to win overall.

 

[janetfan]

Do you remember if Kurt thought that Buttle won the long program, or just that Buttle was so far ahead after the short that Joubert's LP was not enough to overtake him? Joubert fell on his triple Lutz in the SP and was in sixth place, ten points behind.

What was bizarre about the LP was that the graceful, elegant skater, Buttle, lost on Program Component Scores to the guy with big jumps but weak choreography.

On the other hand, the big jumper, who landed 7 triples and a quad, lost on tech -- by ten points! -- to the guy known more for his soulfulness than his jumping.

Some unexpected judging, to be sure.

I don't recall their final scores - but I remember that I thought Brian might have won the LP and skated very well.

But as you mentioned Jeffrey had a big lead after the SP and in CoP scoring it is about who has the most points after both programs.

I see nothing wrong if the EuroSport guys thought Brian won. They were just doing their job and expressing their opinions.

 

[Medusa]

I see nothing wrong if the EuroSport guys thought Brian won. They were just doing their job and expressing their opinions.

The German Eurosport guys were sure that Buttle won. As did I. The German Eurosport guys were really good at those Worlds 2008 with their guesses, Henrik Scharnberger actually predicted that Yukari Nakano would only place 4th with her skate - and it was real-time! He spotted both underrotations she was called on and therefore saw her in 4th. That was really impressive.

 

[Mathman]

Henrik Scharnberger actually predicted that Yukari Nakano would only place 4th with her skate - and it was real-time! He spotted both underrotations she was called on and therefore saw her in 4th. That was really impressive.

A little bit off topic, but to me that shows how much figure skating has estranged itself from its audience under the new judging system. All fans with less impressive knowledge than Herr Schamberger, or with less keen "real time" eyes, came away feeling, "Hey, why didn't that girl win anything? She skated great!"

If the audience cannot tell why one competitor won and another lost -- if they are so much at sea that they cannot even sustain an informed opinion on the matter -- then they will quickly lose interest.