Is GOAT a meaningful concept?

[DizzyFrenchie]

There's a whole universe between saying "I don't think it means anything" and saying "I think it means Garbage Offered As Treasure".
And even a teenager can tell a difference... and I am not a teenager, either.

You know... Telling one knows better than Chopin because one's not a teenager anymore, is a bit like in English Literature, a woman saying that she now knows better than Jane Austen because she's grown over girly romances? We may excuse this person for not understanding any meaning to a concept like GOAT. (Yes I admit that Jane Austen's mind was way more Mozartian than pre-Chopinian.)

The very organisation responsible for the GOAT being stolen medals comes to the rescue:

wako💜❄️ (@yuzuttto) on X

羽生結弦選手のお写真6枚もある😆︎✨ 日曜の朝に、ちょっとした「GOAT（史上最高）」のひとときを。 #YuzuruHanyu𓃵 https://t.co/UO7GL3IHgy

x.com

Here's the ISU Instagram post:

ISU Figure Skating ⛸ on Instagram: "Your little dose of 🐐 on a Sunday morning. 🇯🇵日曜と週明けのエナジー補給に 我らのGOAT🐐 #FigureSkating #フィギュアスケート"

11K likes, 93 comments - isufigureskating on July 5, 2026: "Your little dose of 🐐 on a Sunday morning. 🇯🇵日曜と週明けのエナジー補給に 我らのGOAT🐐 #FigureSkating #フィギュアスケート".

www.instagram.com

 

[TontoK]

Jackson Haines it is.

I was leaning towards Nikolai Panin, but I respect your choice!

 

[4everchan]

You know... Telling one knows better than Chopin because one's not a teenager anymore,

. Again, putting words in my mouth. I said that Chopin is not even in my top ten and I added that he used to be when I was younger, yes, a teenager. That implies nothing else and definitely nothing pejorative towards Chopin's music. I still perform it and teach it. I just have other favorites now. Finally, if I appreciate Chopin's music, his contribution is almost exclusively limited to piano repertoire. Many other composers have graced us with music for so many other genres and that's why I prefer them. Nothing against Chopin but more that I find other composers more interesting as I love orchestral music for instance. And this is why I cannot agree with some of you about the meaningfulness of a label like GOAT. It is clear that every individual has different perceptions of things and thus, such labels are purely subjective. The proof is how my words have just been misinterpreted.

 

[noskates]

And I still say if you're asked who your favorite skater is (notice skater is written in the singular form - not skaters in the multiple form) you should answer with one skater. If the question is who are your favorite skaterS - then list away! Clearly from my avatar Jason Brown is my "current" favorite skater winning out over my many years' favorite skater Kurt Browning. But I don't think either of them is the GOAT in how I understand that word to mean. 4ever - sometimes I think you just enjoy the heck out of the debate!

 

[yfan1]

The very organisation responsible for the GOAT being stolen medals comes to the rescue:

The very organization that was also responsible for:

Placing him 2nd at 2014 CoC
Qualifying him for the 2014-15 Grand Prix Final
Placing him second at 2015 Worlds

But who's counting.

 

[Magill]

Here's the ISU Instagram post:

ISU Figure Skating ⛸ on Instagram: "Your little dose of 🐐 on a Sunday morning. 🇯🇵日曜と週明けのエナジー補給に 我らのGOAT🐐 #FigureSkating #フィギュアスケート"

11K likes, 93 comments - isufigureskating on July 5, 2026: "Your little dose of 🐐 on a Sunday morning. 🇯🇵日曜と週明けのエナジー補給に 我らのGOAT🐐 #FigureSkating #フィギュアスケート".

www.instagram.com

Ha ha, I admit ISU has an excellent timing with this one, lol

But it is true it reminds me they have repeatedly brought up Yuzuru on their SNS in the recent months, more times than they had for some 4 previous years together, and they have managed to call him the GOAT almost each time they posted his pic.
I admit I never thought much about it, nor gave much meaning to it, but now, with this sudden supply of the extra sour grape juice here ... well, who knows, makes one wonder, lol Where is that thread "Good for you, ISU" or whatever it was called, I might want to pay a visit there...

 

[DizzyFrenchie]

Ha ha, I admit ISU has an excellent timing with this one, lol

But it is true it reminds me they have repeatedly brought up Yuzuru on their SNS in the recent months, more times than they had for some 4 previous years together, and they have managed to call him the GOAT almost each time they posted his pic.
I admit I never thought much about it, nor gave much meaning to it, but now, with this sudden supply of the extra sour grape juice here ... well, who knows, makes one wonder, lol Where is that thread "Good for you, ISU" or whatever it was called, I might want to pay a visit there...

I must confess that I wouldn't have looked very much at this little goat emoticon had there not been this thread ongoing...

 

[DizzyFrenchie]

The very organization that was also responsible for:

Placing him 2nd at 2014 CoC
Qualifying him for the 2014-15 Grand Prix Final
Placing him second at 2015 Worlds

But who's counting.

Have you done rescorings?

 

[yfan1]

Have you done rescorings?

Yes? Have you? Did you end up scoring him with 84 PCS with 5 falls at 2014 CoC as well?

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Not really. What was "so great a performance it can never be surpassed" will be "meh" in twenty years, in a sport like skating that constantly evolves. In other areas, like literature or art, the opinion is too subjective. You can declare "My GOAT, in my opinion" but not The GOAT.

Agreed.

GOATS are a matter of personal preference. Has less to do with actual skating and more to do with who is in your profile name/pic.

Oh and don’t forget YouTube hits - that’s the most critical GOAT-defining metric —which Gillis Grafstrom is alas sorely lacking in. Although perhaps if the Gillis Grafstrom insta gets a few more followers, we can maaaybe include him in the GOAT conversation.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Yes? Have you? Did you end up scoring him with 84 PCS with 5 falls at 2014 CoC as well?

Generous Overscoring After Tumbles?

Garbage Officiating Awarding Topples?

Grossly Overlooking Abundant Tripping?

 

[Magill]

Oh, I see that eternal teenagers strike again! Boys will be boys and so now we're down to name calling again - an adolescent way to hide tension, act out aggression, anger and fragile self-esteem, and so much more worrisome when performed by adults.
Here's some insight into it, I hope some will find it helpful

Name-Calling Psychology: Unveiling the Motives and Impact

Explore the psychology behind name-calling: why people insult others, brain science reveals the damage, and how to recognize emotional abuse patterns.

neurolaunch.com

Name-calling isn’t just careless cruelty, it’s a psychological shortcut people reach for when they feel threatened, powerless, or unable to manage what they’re actually feeling. The psychology behind name-calling reveals a mix of threatened ego, learned behavior, and cognitive bias, and brain imaging shows the words hit their targets with something close to physical force. Understanding why it happens, and what it does to the people on the receiving end, is the first step toward actually stopping it.

Key Takeaways

• Name-calling usually stems from anger, insecurity, or a threatened sense of self rather than genuine confidence.
• Brain scans show social rejection and verbal attacks activate overlapping pain circuitry, similar to physical injury.
• People with fragile, inflated self-esteem are often more likely to lash out with insults than people with low self-esteem.
• Chronic exposure to name-calling in childhood correlates with measurable increases in anxiety, depression, and other psychiatric symptoms in adulthood.
• Family modeling and cultural norms shape whether someone reaches for insults during conflict or manages anger another way
• 
  Most people call names when they don’t have a better tool available in the moment. Anger, frustration, humiliation, or a sudden loss of control tend to trigger it, and an insult offers something fast: a way to feel powerful when you actually feel the opposite.

More under the link. Food for thought. Hopefully helpful.

 

[yfan1]

It's a fun exercise to think about who I'd consider greatest of an era, top 3.

80s-end of 6.0

Men
1. Alexei Yagudin
2. Kurt Browning
3. Brian Orser

Women
1. Michelle Kwan
2. Midori Ito
3. Lu Chen

Pairs
1. Gordeeva/Grinkov
2. Shen/Zhao
3. Berezhnaya/Sikharulidze

Ice Dance
1. Torville/Dean
2. Anissina/Peizerat
3. Usova/Zhulin (IDK)

IJS era

Men
1. Yuzuru Hanyu
2. Stephane Lambiel
3. Daisuke Takahashi

Women
1. Yuna Kim
1. Mao Asada
3. I really don't even know, because nothing's touched them, and many extremely talented skaters never reached their potential (like Karen Chen and Alena Kostornaia). It feels wrong to include someone like Medvedeva here, or to ignore Sakamoto's obvious flaws.

Pairs
1. Sui/Han
2. Shen/Zhao (seeing how they skated well into CoP, and had likely the best throw 3S ever even under this system)
3. Savchenko/Szolkowy
4. Duhamel/Radford (I'm cheating, whatever)

Ice Dance
1. Virtue/Moir
2. Papadakis/Cizeron
3. Delobel/Schoenfelder

 

[Diana Delafield]

GOATS are a matter of personal preference. Has less to do with actual skating and more to do with who is in your profile name/pic.

Oh, now that is embarrassing!

 

[TallyT]

The question that was asked by the OP was NOT 'who is or is not a or the Greatest of All Time/GOAT', but (speaking as a lexiconophiliac who cares as much about words than the musicians here do about composers, or most of us do about figure skating) if the actual term is a meaningful concept. Not if this person of that thinks it should be, but if it is.

I repeat {sigh} if a massive number of people in myriad walks of endeavour do find a word or phrase has meaning.... it has meaning, whether 2026 Canutes want it to or not. And it will do so, maybe with new names and maybe not, in 2126 (if we are all still here). No problem with you or you or... maybe you saying you personally do not find it so.

And if it didn't have meaning in figure skating then it would not be brought up - and not just by fans of the current frontrunners but by fans, by naysayers oh so eager to naysay, the public, the press and the publicity-hungry TPTN - over and over and over and over...

It exists. It will not go away any more than the 'quad king label' even when outquadded, or whatever else they get called by the present and the future. Live with it.

 

[DizzyFrenchie]

Yes? Have you? Did you end up scoring him with 84 PCS with 5 falls at 2014 CoC as well?

I haven't, simply because I have never felt able to watch this skate. Given his already stellar abilities and the real-life drama involved and its effects on Interpretation and Performance, I wouldn't be surprised had he deserved at least 84 in Components in spite of five falls; this, to the contrary of some Skaters who got/get, on a regular basis, Components well over 90 while deserving very, very far from 84... yet fail to get your attention, all focused on... well, he must be the GOAT, to have managed so well your attention on this one performance of his, if you can watch it I'm sure that you'll get profitable information going on.

 

[DizzyFrenchie]

The question that was asked by the OP was NOT 'who is or is not a or the Greatest of All Time/GOAT', but (speaking as a lexiconophiliac who cares as much about words than the musicians here do about composers, or most of us do about figure skating) if the actual term is a meaningful concept. Not if this person of that thinks it should be, but if it is.

I repeat {sigh} if a massive number of people in myriad walks of endeavour do find a word or phrase has meaning.... it has meaning, whether 2026 Canutes want it to or not. And it will do so, maybe with new names and maybe not, in 2126 (if we are all still here). No problem with you or you or... maybe you saying you personally do not find it so.

And if it didn't have meaning in figure skating then it would not be brought up - and not just by fans of the current frontrunners but by fans, by naysayers oh so eager to naysay, the public, the press and the publicity-hungry TPTN - over and over and over and over...

It exists. It will not go away any more than the 'quad king label' even when outquadded, or whatever else they get called by the present and the future. Live with it.

Which in my opinion, includes the implicit question: what does this expression mean? Where "one's preferred Skater" is a bit of a side-lining...